New video - overtaking
Discussion
Ok, my first efforts with a video camera were pretty wobbly to say the least.
I've been trying various combinations of Heath Robinson camera mounts over the last few weeks, but I haven't been too impressed with the results and I decided they weren't really worth posting.
This week, I've borrowed a friend's bullet-cam and fixed it to the dashboard over the instruments. I'm much more pleased with the results, so I went out yesterday and filmed quite a bit of footage. I've got enough to edit down into a cornering demo, some motorway driving and some overtakes, which is the first one to be posted. The position of th camera gives you the same view as I had at the time.
I also filmed a commentary drive, but the sound quality of the camera was so poor that you couldn't hear my voice, so I'll have to come up with some other way of recording a commentary.
The sound quality on this clip is also very poor, but I've left it as it came off the camera rather than editing some cheesy music over the top. You'll enjoy it best then, with the sound turned down.
Don't forget, as with the last one, it's best to read my article on overtaking first, to understand the principles...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
In the absence of a commentary, here's my accompanying notes for the video...
Overtake 1 - Vauxhall Astra.
A very basic overtake on a straight piece of road, coming from a 40mph limit into a national. The sideways move is made prior to the increase in speed limit, to help me get a better view, and to gauge the possible reaction of the Astra driver. The acceleration, however, only starts as the speed limit changes.
Overtake 2 - white van.
A good example of an overtake off a right-hander. The move to the nearside increases the view down the van's offside (watch for the horse and cart!), combined with a slightly closer following position. As soon as there is a break in the centre lines, the overtake is on and executed quickly and safely.
Overtake 3 - cement truck.
Another one coming out of a 40mph limit into a national. The following position is extended to allow a better view past the truck, and the overtake is performed efficiently without even requiring a change down from 4th.
Overtake 4 - Blue Rover 400.
There is a nice long view coming off the right hander that allowed me to spot the last oncoming vehicle - a white van. This view was confirmed by moving offside after the van passed, and the overtake was there for the taking.
Overtake 5 - Astra van.
Watch my sideways movements to obtain a view - nearside on the right-hander, and then offside on the straight prior to the overtake. I left the car in third to allow me to get into a following position on the next vehicle without braking.
Overtake 6 - a short series.
This shows how a progressive driver can take advantage of a short dual-carriageway and roundabouts. The plan with the trucks is not to be alongside them on the roundabout, but rather to pass them before or after - in this case, after. Watch how a move back to the nearside after the second roundabout gives us a better view in between the truck and the little Peugeot, and allows us to see when the Peugeot has completed it's overtake, so that e can then do ours.
Overtake 7 - Rover 75.
Note how the double-white lines severely restrict our ability to improve our view by sideways movements. As soon as the lines break, however, the overtake is on.
Overtake 8 - blue van.
This was an instinctive overtake - it was simply on. I was in the right position and the Right gear, and, well, it seemed rude not to really.
Overtake 9 - horse box.
Again, our movement is limited by the white lines, but the view up the nearside was good coming off the bend, so it was on.
Overtake 10 - Chrysler/Dodge thingy.
Come on - you should be getting the hang of this by now - I don't need to explain this one, do I?
Overtake 11 - Ford Galaxy.
A nice one off a left hand bend from an extended following position.
Overtakes 12 and 13 - Renault and Ford mondeo.
The first is a nice rolling overtake which was obviously on and required no following. The second was very straightforward.
Overtakes 14 and 15 - Volvo and caravanner.
This was my favourite. The Volvo was obviously looking for the overtake, but was losing the view by being too close. I'd spotted the opportunity early, but waited until the cars were on the left-hander to avoid being squeezed.
Overtakes 16 and 17 - Alfa 156 and Astra.
More straightforward stuff.
Here's the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvrhb1mDkYs
Enjoy!
I've been trying various combinations of Heath Robinson camera mounts over the last few weeks, but I haven't been too impressed with the results and I decided they weren't really worth posting.
This week, I've borrowed a friend's bullet-cam and fixed it to the dashboard over the instruments. I'm much more pleased with the results, so I went out yesterday and filmed quite a bit of footage. I've got enough to edit down into a cornering demo, some motorway driving and some overtakes, which is the first one to be posted. The position of th camera gives you the same view as I had at the time.
I also filmed a commentary drive, but the sound quality of the camera was so poor that you couldn't hear my voice, so I'll have to come up with some other way of recording a commentary.
The sound quality on this clip is also very poor, but I've left it as it came off the camera rather than editing some cheesy music over the top. You'll enjoy it best then, with the sound turned down.
Don't forget, as with the last one, it's best to read my article on overtaking first, to understand the principles...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
In the absence of a commentary, here's my accompanying notes for the video...
Overtake 1 - Vauxhall Astra.
A very basic overtake on a straight piece of road, coming from a 40mph limit into a national. The sideways move is made prior to the increase in speed limit, to help me get a better view, and to gauge the possible reaction of the Astra driver. The acceleration, however, only starts as the speed limit changes.
Overtake 2 - white van.
A good example of an overtake off a right-hander. The move to the nearside increases the view down the van's offside (watch for the horse and cart!), combined with a slightly closer following position. As soon as there is a break in the centre lines, the overtake is on and executed quickly and safely.
Overtake 3 - cement truck.
Another one coming out of a 40mph limit into a national. The following position is extended to allow a better view past the truck, and the overtake is performed efficiently without even requiring a change down from 4th.
Overtake 4 - Blue Rover 400.
There is a nice long view coming off the right hander that allowed me to spot the last oncoming vehicle - a white van. This view was confirmed by moving offside after the van passed, and the overtake was there for the taking.
Overtake 5 - Astra van.
Watch my sideways movements to obtain a view - nearside on the right-hander, and then offside on the straight prior to the overtake. I left the car in third to allow me to get into a following position on the next vehicle without braking.
Overtake 6 - a short series.
This shows how a progressive driver can take advantage of a short dual-carriageway and roundabouts. The plan with the trucks is not to be alongside them on the roundabout, but rather to pass them before or after - in this case, after. Watch how a move back to the nearside after the second roundabout gives us a better view in between the truck and the little Peugeot, and allows us to see when the Peugeot has completed it's overtake, so that e can then do ours.
Overtake 7 - Rover 75.
Note how the double-white lines severely restrict our ability to improve our view by sideways movements. As soon as the lines break, however, the overtake is on.
Overtake 8 - blue van.
This was an instinctive overtake - it was simply on. I was in the right position and the Right gear, and, well, it seemed rude not to really.
Overtake 9 - horse box.
Again, our movement is limited by the white lines, but the view up the nearside was good coming off the bend, so it was on.
Overtake 10 - Chrysler/Dodge thingy.
Come on - you should be getting the hang of this by now - I don't need to explain this one, do I?
Overtake 11 - Ford Galaxy.
A nice one off a left hand bend from an extended following position.
Overtakes 12 and 13 - Renault and Ford mondeo.
The first is a nice rolling overtake which was obviously on and required no following. The second was very straightforward.
Overtakes 14 and 15 - Volvo and caravanner.
This was my favourite. The Volvo was obviously looking for the overtake, but was losing the view by being too close. I'd spotted the opportunity early, but waited until the cars were on the left-hander to avoid being squeezed.
Overtakes 16 and 17 - Alfa 156 and Astra.
More straightforward stuff.
Here's the video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wvrhb1mDkYs
Enjoy!
Hi, first - thanks for taking the time to put the video together!
Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:
if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?
Issue 2 - Speed during overtakes
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but regarding use of speed during overtaking manouvers on NSL single carriageways: It is clear to a reasonable person that in many circumstances an overtake can be made safer if the overtaking vehicle is not on the wrong side of the road for long. Therefore aim to minimise time taken by increasing the speed differential so you can pull in sooner. The car being overtaken is under no obligation to slow down, but the car doing the overtaking could speed up. Your speedo is not shown, but at 4m 22s your speed seems to peak as you pass the small Peugot and you then slow down. Can I sak what your peak speed was here? (Also, noticed that on a few of the passes your speed peaked as you were alongside, which is good, but I still suspect that speed may have been nudging the limit a bit.)
The point is, overtaking and passing at above 60mph means you can pull in sooner and everyone is safer. I understand that, and Iyou understand that. However my fear would be coming across a laser speed check while undertaking this manouver. Therefore I have a moral conflict between i) sticking to 60 or ii) making the pass as safe as possible by exceeding 60 breifly. What advice can you offer me? (Other than to slow down afterwards, which I think goes without saying.) Also, would there be any chance that you could do a video with the speedo in view?
Thanks again.
Finally - looks like you have some very nice roads round near you! Whereabouts was this filmed?
Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:
if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?
Issue 2 - Speed during overtakes
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but regarding use of speed during overtaking manouvers on NSL single carriageways: It is clear to a reasonable person that in many circumstances an overtake can be made safer if the overtaking vehicle is not on the wrong side of the road for long. Therefore aim to minimise time taken by increasing the speed differential so you can pull in sooner. The car being overtaken is under no obligation to slow down, but the car doing the overtaking could speed up. Your speedo is not shown, but at 4m 22s your speed seems to peak as you pass the small Peugot and you then slow down. Can I sak what your peak speed was here? (Also, noticed that on a few of the passes your speed peaked as you were alongside, which is good, but I still suspect that speed may have been nudging the limit a bit.)
The point is, overtaking and passing at above 60mph means you can pull in sooner and everyone is safer. I understand that, and Iyou understand that. However my fear would be coming across a laser speed check while undertaking this manouver. Therefore I have a moral conflict between i) sticking to 60 or ii) making the pass as safe as possible by exceeding 60 breifly. What advice can you offer me? (Other than to slow down afterwards, which I think goes without saying.) Also, would there be any chance that you could do a video with the speedo in view?
Thanks again.
Finally - looks like you have some very nice roads round near you! Whereabouts was this filmed?
On a technical note there is software availible as a free trial which will allow one to take two video streams and combine them as a picture in picture. Therefore a simultaneous recording of road and speedo using 2 cams which were then sync-ed picture in picture would do the job! This is a bit techy but it's easier than trying to mount a single camera in such a way that it can see both speedo and road.
mrmr96 said:
Hi, first - thanks for taking the time to put the video together!
Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:
if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?
I wouldn't stop you using them for an overtake in those circumstances. The only thing I'd comment about that one is that I wouldn't have returned nearside after the lorry. I'd have stayed out for the white Peugeot & only returned nearside if it definitely wasn't on.Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:
if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?
vonhosen said:
Platinum said:
Great video
Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?
Why ?Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?
mrmr96 said:
vonhosen said:
Platinum said:
Great video
Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?
Why ?Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?
It being a left hand bend, it was preferable to through a right hander, because with the right hander there is the chance of the caravan or following vehicle apexing (fully or even slightly on such a narrow road). That makes me a little more cautious in such circumstances.
Santa Claws said:
Reg, as ever, absolutely amazing.
Now do one with a traditional auto box!
No problem - have you got one you can lend me?Now do one with a traditional auto box!
vonhosen said:
mrmr96 said:
Hi, first - thanks for taking the time to put the video together!
Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:
if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?
I wouldn't stop you using them for an overtake in those circumstances. The only thing I'd comment about that one is that I wouldn't have returned nearside after the lorry. I'd have stayed out for the white Peugeot & only returned nearside if it definitely wasn't on.Issue 1 - Use of hatched area
During "overtake 6" you pass a lorry by driving over the hatched area after a roundabout. I thought that one was only permitted to use the hatched area in an emergency, but I checked the highway code (rule 130) and it says:
if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so
If I had done what you did with a copper where the white van was, I'd fully expect to have been pulled over. Comments?
The nearside move was a mistake – looking at it again, I think I’d expected the Peugeot to achieve a higher speed and assumed I’d need to overtake from the following position. I very quickly realised this wasn’t the case, but I’d already started moving nearside at that point.
mrmr96 said:
Issue 2 - Speed during overtakes
Sorry if this has been discussed before, but regarding use of speed during overtaking manouvers on NSL single carriageways: It is clear to a reasonable person that in many circumstances an overtake can be made safer if the overtaking vehicle is not on the wrong side of the road for long. Therefore aim to minimise time taken by increasing the speed differential so you can pull in sooner. The car being overtaken is under no obligation to slow down, but the car doing the overtaking could speed up. Your speedo is not shown, but at 4m 22s your speed seems to peak as you pass the small Peugot and you then slow down. Can I sak what your peak speed was here? (Also, noticed that on a few of the passes your speed peaked as you were alongside, which is good, but I still suspect that speed may have been nudging the limit a bit.)
The point is, overtaking and passing at above 60mph means you can pull in sooner and everyone is safer. I understand that, and Iyou understand that. However my fear would be coming across a laser speed check while undertaking this manouver. Therefore I have a moral conflict between i) sticking to 60 or ii) making the pass as safe as possible by exceeding 60 breifly. What advice can you offer me? (Other than to slow down afterwards, which I think goes without saying.) Also, would there be any chance that you could do a video with the speedo in view?
Firstly, please read my article on speed here…Sorry if this has been discussed before, but regarding use of speed during overtaking manouvers on NSL single carriageways: It is clear to a reasonable person that in many circumstances an overtake can be made safer if the overtaking vehicle is not on the wrong side of the road for long. Therefore aim to minimise time taken by increasing the speed differential so you can pull in sooner. The car being overtaken is under no obligation to slow down, but the car doing the overtaking could speed up. Your speedo is not shown, but at 4m 22s your speed seems to peak as you pass the small Peugot and you then slow down. Can I sak what your peak speed was here? (Also, noticed that on a few of the passes your speed peaked as you were alongside, which is good, but I still suspect that speed may have been nudging the limit a bit.)
The point is, overtaking and passing at above 60mph means you can pull in sooner and everyone is safer. I understand that, and Iyou understand that. However my fear would be coming across a laser speed check while undertaking this manouver. Therefore I have a moral conflict between i) sticking to 60 or ii) making the pass as safe as possible by exceeding 60 breifly. What advice can you offer me? (Other than to slow down afterwards, which I think goes without saying.) Also, would there be any chance that you could do a video with the speedo in view?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
It explains my personal feelings and opinions on the subject of speed limits and breaking them.
With that in mind, I won’t be commenting on what speeds I achieved on the video – mainly because I wasn’t looking at the speedometer during the overtakes, but also because I believe that the speed at which you drive on the roads is your choice, and your choice alone. I won’t be held responsible if you fall foul of the law, and it would be irresponsible of me to suggest that you should break speed limits.
I also won’t be posting any videos which show my speedometer.
mrmr96 said:
Finally - looks like you have some very nice roads round near you! Whereabouts was this filmed?
Overtake 1 – A675 Bolton Road, between Riley Green Switch Road and Junction 3 of the M65.Overtakes 2 to 7 – A59 between Samlesbury and Gisburn.
Overtakes 8 and 9 – A682 between Gisburn and Long Preston.
Overtakes 10 to 13 – B6479 between Settle and Ribble Head.
Overtakes 14 to 17 – B6255 between Ribble Head and Hawes.
Gods country!
mrmr96 said:
vonhosen said:
Platinum said:
Great video
Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?
Why ?Just wondering about the volvo/caravan one. If you were being followed by a police car and spotted doing an overtake in that style, would they pull you over?
Useful video, and much appreciated Reg!
I notice the video was made in a purple car - I wonder how many of these overtakes would have been out of the question for people driving blue cars (which have less than half the horsepower and torque)? I'm forever getting stuck on winding country roads behind that most irritating of road-users, the "50 in an NSL that could theoretically support 80" driver, but have similar performance car-wise and thus back off of every potential overtake because of the time it takes to get around them, especially if they pull the currently fashionable stunt of deliberately accelerating to tighten things up. Any advice?
I notice the video was made in a purple car - I wonder how many of these overtakes would have been out of the question for people driving blue cars (which have less than half the horsepower and torque)? I'm forever getting stuck on winding country roads behind that most irritating of road-users, the "50 in an NSL that could theoretically support 80" driver, but have similar performance car-wise and thus back off of every potential overtake because of the time it takes to get around them, especially if they pull the currently fashionable stunt of deliberately accelerating to tighten things up. Any advice?
BlackSheep said:
Useful video, and much appreciated Reg!
I notice the video was made in a purple car - I wonder how many of these overtakes would have been out of the question for people driving blue cars (which have less than half the horsepower and torque)? I'm forever getting stuck on winding country roads behind that most irritating of road-users, the "50 in an NSL that could theoretically support 80" driver, but have similar performance car-wise and thus back off of every potential overtake because of the time it takes to get around them, especially if they pull the currently fashionable stunt of deliberately accelerating to tighten things up. Any advice?
Sorry for leaving it out of my first post on overtaking, but you're quite right - the first step in overtaking safely and efficiently is to ensure that you are not driving a blue car. Blueness is the antithesis of all things relating to performance, and will severely hamper your overtaking ability. Can I suggest allowing your car to become very dirty, rendering is somewhat browner? Or maybe wearing some of these to reduce the blueness?...I notice the video was made in a purple car - I wonder how many of these overtakes would have been out of the question for people driving blue cars (which have less than half the horsepower and torque)? I'm forever getting stuck on winding country roads behind that most irritating of road-users, the "50 in an NSL that could theoretically support 80" driver, but have similar performance car-wise and thus back off of every potential overtake because of the time it takes to get around them, especially if they pull the currently fashionable stunt of deliberately accelerating to tighten things up. Any advice?
In reality, the principles for overtaking in a slower car are exactly the same, so long as you take into account your vehicle's performance during the planning phase. Without teaching you to suck eggs, your lack of performance means more time potentially exposed to danger, and so your planning will require a longer gap in on-coming traffic, or a longer view of an empty road ahead.
The big advantage of the techniques I've demonstrated is that, if you think progressively, position yourself correctly, and anticipate potential overtakes before they arrive by chosing a more flexible gear, then the overtakes will simply present themselves to you, and you'll find yourself moving into the overtakes well before the vehicles in front or behind realise that they're on.
WilliBetz said:
A great demonstration of varying the following position to preserve a view. Bravo.
With hindsight, are you happy about your penultimate pass on the Alfa?
WilliBetz
Yes.With hindsight, are you happy about your penultimate pass on the Alfa?
WilliBetz
The camera was mounted lower than my sight-line, so I had a better view into the dip, and I could see it was clear.
R_U_LOCAL said:
....the first step in overtaking safely and efficiently is to ensure that you are not driving a blue car. Blueness is the antithesis of all things relating to performance, and will severely hamper your overtaking ability.
Oh great, now you tell me! Well it's no good; I can't afford another change of car at this time but at least I can blame it all on the car and continue to pretend that I'm doing OK. 
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Many thanks for uploading the vid and providing some informative posts there RU. Watching that video and comparing it to how I personally perform overtaking in similar scenario's, it's nice to know that im doing it in a respectable manner.
I also was surprised with Overtake 6, I always assumed like most that area was always a no go zone, whatever the scenario. One other thing which struck me was you held back waiting for the Pug to safely overtake before you did. Countless times I've found myself with someone behind me right on my bumper in situations like that, and I'm sure I've done the same throughout the short time I've been driving. My question is..Is it illegal in any form to do that, or just generally frowned upon? I mean i get the impression, it's not how it should be done (going by the book), but in such scenario's it's so easy to get caught up in the moment and pile your way through behind the car in front as any later would've meant leaving yourself in a bit of a pickle.
I also was surprised with Overtake 6, I always assumed like most that area was always a no go zone, whatever the scenario. One other thing which struck me was you held back waiting for the Pug to safely overtake before you did. Countless times I've found myself with someone behind me right on my bumper in situations like that, and I'm sure I've done the same throughout the short time I've been driving. My question is..Is it illegal in any form to do that, or just generally frowned upon? I mean i get the impression, it's not how it should be done (going by the book), but in such scenario's it's so easy to get caught up in the moment and pile your way through behind the car in front as any later would've meant leaving yourself in a bit of a pickle.
Edited by ironictwist on Sunday 30th September 21:31
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