New Video - Cornering demo
Discussion
I've singled out a 10(ish) minute segment from my ride out the other day to demonstrate some cornering.
Unlike the overtaking video, I've kept it as a single clip, so it includes a couple of overtakes, some slower-speed stuff in places and some suicidal sheep.
It's really just to show correct positioning on the approach, through and exiting different corners. The first part is on a slightly tighter, narrower road with some limited views, and corner speed assessment is usually through the limit point method. The second part (after the right turn at Ribble Head) is a more open moorland road, with longer views and less reliance on the limit point for assessing the severity of the bends.
I'll not describe it any further - watch it, and feel free to ask any questions...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ailFlbwHUlc
Unlike the overtaking video, I've kept it as a single clip, so it includes a couple of overtakes, some slower-speed stuff in places and some suicidal sheep.
It's really just to show correct positioning on the approach, through and exiting different corners. The first part is on a slightly tighter, narrower road with some limited views, and corner speed assessment is usually through the limit point method. The second part (after the right turn at Ribble Head) is a more open moorland road, with longer views and less reliance on the limit point for assessing the severity of the bends.
I'll not describe it any further - watch it, and feel free to ask any questions...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ailFlbwHUlc
Many thanks for that, Reg. Very interesting indeed, and that drive certainly made good use of the available road width for which we pay so dearly.
I detest rumble strips at the best of times, but is it not stupid to place them on a RH curve, as at about 2:25 ? That seems very bad where braking might be involved - especially for bikers.
One thing I did notice was that a nearside position was quite often not being held in the early/mid portion of RH bends, and it seemed to be a case of easing the radius of turn. Is this a fair comment? I'm not suggesting the corner was being cut without adequate vision and I may not have seen it correctly; I'll have another run through it later.
One other thing that struck me was the use of a fully offside position down a longish straight on the approach to a LH curve, where the improvement in view seems to be very slight until you get relatively close to the bend.
Just miscellaneous thoughts, if I may.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I detest rumble strips at the best of times, but is it not stupid to place them on a RH curve, as at about 2:25 ? That seems very bad where braking might be involved - especially for bikers.
One thing I did notice was that a nearside position was quite often not being held in the early/mid portion of RH bends, and it seemed to be a case of easing the radius of turn. Is this a fair comment? I'm not suggesting the corner was being cut without adequate vision and I may not have seen it correctly; I'll have another run through it later.
One other thing that struck me was the use of a fully offside position down a longish straight on the approach to a LH curve, where the improvement in view seems to be very slight until you get relatively close to the bend.
Just miscellaneous thoughts, if I may.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
Many thanks for that, Reg. Very interesting indeed, and that drive certainly made good use of the available road width for which we pay so dearly.
I detest rumble strips at the best of times, but is it not stupid to place them on a RH curve, as at about 2:25 ? That seems very bad where braking might be involved - especially for bikers.
One thing I did notice was that a nearside position was quite often not being held in the early/mid portion of RH bends, and it seemed to be a case of easing the radius of turn. Is this a fair comment? I'm not suggesting the corner was being cut without adequate vision and I may not have seen it correctly; I'll have another run through it later.
These things can be a bit deceptive Dave - the camera was mounted towards the offside of the car, which doesn't show my nearside position very well on the approach to right handers. However, the offside move mid-corner on right-handers is definitely designed to increase the radius of the turn, which helps vehicle stability. I'll only move offside, however, when I've obtained a view and I know it's safe. One other thing to consider is that, when I'm negotiating a bend, it's not just that particular bend I'm thinking about - I'm always considering "what's next?"I detest rumble strips at the best of times, but is it not stupid to place them on a RH curve, as at about 2:25 ? That seems very bad where braking might be involved - especially for bikers.
One thing I did notice was that a nearside position was quite often not being held in the early/mid portion of RH bends, and it seemed to be a case of easing the radius of turn. Is this a fair comment? I'm not suggesting the corner was being cut without adequate vision and I may not have seen it correctly; I'll have another run through it later.
Linking a series of corners involves thinking ahead of yourself somewhat. If I'm entering a right-hander and I can see that the next corner is a left-hander, I'll exit the R/H bend in such a way that I'll then be in the correct position for entering the L/H bend.
Correct entry position is something you can plan for early on the approach to a bend, but your exit position is, more often than not, obscured, and therefore less easy to plan for. In a corner where you don't have the exit view, your plan should be to exit to the left of the centre-line. As your view opens up, you may then be able to change that plan and exit on a wider line.
TripleS said:
One other thing that struck me was the use of a fully offside position down a longish straight on the approach to a LH curve, where the improvement in view seems to be very slight until you get relatively close to the bend.
I think the part you're talking about is when I take a central position on a long straight. At that point, I'm not actually positioning for the bend - I'm taking a safety position which is equally distant from both kerbs. This keeps me away from any nearside or offside hazards, and takes away the steering effect of the road camber.R_U_LOCAL said:
TripleS said:
One other thing that struck me was the use of a fully offside position down a longish straight on the approach to a LH curve, where the improvement in view seems to be very slight until you get relatively close to the bend.
I think the part you're talking about is when I take a central position on a long straight. At that point, I'm not actually positioning for the bend - I'm taking a safety position which is equally distant from both kerbs. This keeps me away from any nearside or offside hazards, and takes away the steering effect of the road camber.No, I wasn't talking about the long straight where you went down the middle, but the reasoning you've now given for doing that is what I expected.
I think it was later on in the video where you went fully offside, even though the LH curve was some distance away - but I must have another look.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
TripleS said:
One other thing that struck me was the use of a fully offside position down a longish straight on the approach to a LH curve, where the improvement in view seems to be very slight until you get relatively close to the bend.
I think the part you're talking about is when I take a central position on a long straight. At that point, I'm not actually positioning for the bend - I'm taking a safety position which is equally distant from both kerbs. This keeps me away from any nearside or offside hazards, and takes away the steering effect of the road camber.No, I wasn't talking about the long straight where you went down the middle, but the reasoning you've now given for doing that is what I expected.
I think it was later on in the video where you went fully offside, even though the LH curve was some distance away - but I must have another look.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I had a few queries, then watched it again and cleared up all but two:
1) 4:32 - does the camera's "eye-level" prevent it seeing a clear sightline through the upcoming right-hander?
2) On the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that longer, closer-spaced white dashes signify increased risk for overtaking, the stretch of road from 8:50 onwards seems more than a little nanny-ish. The sightlines are often huge, and appear to offer plentiful safe overtaking opportunities.
1) 4:32 - does the camera's "eye-level" prevent it seeing a clear sightline through the upcoming right-hander?
2) On the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that longer, closer-spaced white dashes signify increased risk for overtaking, the stretch of road from 8:50 onwards seems more than a little nanny-ish. The sightlines are often huge, and appear to offer plentiful safe overtaking opportunities.
BlackSheep said:
I had a few queries, then watched it again and cleared up all but two:
1) 4:32 - does the camera's "eye-level" prevent it seeing a clear sightline through the upcoming right-hander?
Yes. The camera was mounted at, I suppose, chest height. My higher sight-line meant I could see over that slight crest, and the offside move was safe.1) 4:32 - does the camera's "eye-level" prevent it seeing a clear sightline through the upcoming right-hander?
BlackSheep said:
2) On the (perhaps mistaken) assumption that longer, closer-spaced white dashes signify increased risk for overtaking, the stretch of road from 8:50 onwards seems more than a little nanny-ish. The sightlines are often huge, and appear to offer plentiful safe overtaking opportunities.
The longer centre-lines are simply hazard lines. They indicate an increase in roadside hazards, and in this case, my guess would be that they're there in conjunction with the marker posts, simply to indicate a series of bends. Look carefully around the 09.09 mark - as the road straightens, the hazard lines change back to centre lines. They then go back to hazard lines again at 09.16, because of the nearside junction.R_U_LOCAL said:
TripleS said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
TripleS said:
One other thing that struck me was the use of a fully offside position down a longish straight on the approach to a LH curve, where the improvement in view seems to be very slight until you get relatively close to the bend.
I think the part you're talking about is when I take a central position on a long straight. At that point, I'm not actually positioning for the bend - I'm taking a safety position which is equally distant from both kerbs. This keeps me away from any nearside or offside hazards, and takes away the steering effect of the road camber.No, I wasn't talking about the long straight where you went down the middle, but the reasoning you've now given for doing that is what I expected.
I think it was later on in the video where you went fully offside, even though the LH curve was some distance away - but I must have another look.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
OK I've had another look, and the bits I was wondering about are at approx. 4:30, 4:40, 8:40 and 9:10. Now it may be that your offside positioning was more geared to straightening out a slight RH curve, rather than improving the view for the LH bend in the distance. On the other hand I may have been misreading the situation completely, in which case please disregard my waffling.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
If you look carefully at 4.41, there is a nearside junction/farm entrance. It's position is confirmed a few seconds earlier by a triangle warning sign. The early offside position not only gives a better view on the approach to the left hander, but also gives a slightly better view (potentially) into the nearside junction. The early part at 4.30 was to straighten the right-hander.Best wishes all,
Dave.
8.40 was a straightening of a slight right-hander, which I then linked to an early move offside for the next left hander. After straightening the right-hander, a move back nearside would have been followed by an almost immediate move back to the offside, so it made sense just to stay offside.
At 9.10, you can see that I'm approaching a nearside junction, and there is a route board on the approach. There is a good view into the junction on the approach, but the route board actually obscures the mouth of the junction. The early offside move gave me a view of the junction itself, and confirmed there were no vehicles there. This allowed me to move on to planning for the next corner - a slight right hander, so I was back to the nearside at the junction itself.
There is a recurring theme here - my position isn't only dictated by the corner or hazard that I'm negotiating, but, more often than not, by the next corner or hazard.
g5pry said:
nice demonstration of cornering technique, smoothly done
what kind of camera mount have you used? i have a suction mount but finding a flat surface inside the E39 seems quite tricky
I used a very technical piece of equipment.what kind of camera mount have you used? i have a suction mount but finding a flat surface inside the E39 seems quite tricky
Edited by g5pry on Monday 1st October 20:21
Blu-Tac.
Honestly.
R_U_LOCAL said:
jagdpanther said:
Nice example video 
Was that up towards the Blubberhouses in North Yorks?
It was the B6479 between Horton in Ribblesdale and Ribble Head and then the B6255 between Ribble Head and Hawes.Was that up towards the Blubberhouses in North Yorks?
R_U_LOCAL said:
g5pry said:
was that because Sellotape didn't have enough adhesive properties?
since you've got a professional eye for this kind of thing if we upload videos of our driving would you be kind enough to pass judgement?
Of course!since you've got a professional eye for this kind of thing if we upload videos of our driving would you be kind enough to pass judgement?
Good video 
I altered my cornering technique on left handers after watching this and moved the point where I move to the opposite side of the road far earlier. It gave me much better visibility and allowed me to carry much more speed on the entry (subject to rule 105). As an aside I found that I was also able to start reducing my speed earlier if a vehicle was coming the opposite way, move back to my own side of the road and still set my speed on the apex better.
I altered my cornering technique on left handers after watching this and moved the point where I move to the opposite side of the road far earlier. It gave me much better visibility and allowed me to carry much more speed on the entry (subject to rule 105). As an aside I found that I was also able to start reducing my speed earlier if a vehicle was coming the opposite way, move back to my own side of the road and still set my speed on the apex better.R_U_LOCAL said:
I think the part you're talking about is when I take a central position on a long straight. At that point, I'm not actually positioning for the bend - I'm taking a safety position which is equally distant from both kerbs. This keeps me away from any nearside or offside hazards, and takes away the steering effect of the road camber.
This is something I've done over the years. Always thought it was a bit *iffy* and may get frowned upon by serious drivers, so never really mentioned it before. A lot happier now I tend to play on Sunday mornings (weather permitting) on a nice little road from Holcombe Brook to Helmshore (sometimes go a bit further, depending on the mood) It's got several similar bends to your road and can either be great and empty, or Micra ridden
That's when I usually cut off early.Thanks for the vid. Informative.
Dave: -
Ex mechanic from the time when cars and trucks were fixable by most DIYers (packed it in due to wanting to drive them instead of getting dirty paws)
Ex HGV 1 (didn't bother renewing on last medical as never used for previous 5 years due to working away a lot)
Ex ADI (didn't bother renewing, another job came up)
Now just another car driver (though passionate about it)
Don't usually venture into this forum, but the door was open so I sneaked in. Just pulled a chair up.
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