Car control - Do you know anything that fits the bill?

[Silentz]

OK, first off sorry for YET ANOTHER "what course" post!

Some friends and I are looking to improve our skills and survivability, now we all have powerful RWD cars

We are looking for a course that:

- Does not include us driving our own cars (chicken? yes. tyres are expensive things, and bodywork even more so)
- Involves skid control
- Includes causing, controlling and recovering from oversteer
- Can be done as a group of 3 or 4
- Is preferably in the North West... or at least not in Kent, Norfolk, Fife or any other far-flung corner of this sceptered isle.

I've done the IAM, but it doesn't really cover anything like what we are looking for. I've seen adverts for Don Palmer, Andy Walsh, Carlimits etc etc but they involve driving our own cars. And you can go do track days, but i just dont think we would get the 'education' part we are looking for.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.

[jgsquash]

You can do a Car Limits day in one of Andy's Elise's, IIRC for about another £200 on top of the cost of the course itself. Although the location maybe a little out of your way.

I'm not sure I follow the logic about not using your own car, yes it'll cause some tyre wear (quite a lot actually) but surely you are looking to learn how your car handles on the limit. The chance of bodywork damage on a Car limits day is virtually zero IMO, but of course accidents can happen.

[_Neal_]

Hi - couple of comments

(a) having done a limit-handling course with Andy Walsh (excellent, by the way) the chances of any bodywork damage being done are pretty much nil. I understand that Don Palmer, Cadence and the rest are in similarly very safe environments - it's near impossible to hit anything. In terms of tyres, I did my day in a TVR Chimaera 400 with pretty much new rubber all round, in the dry, on the notoriously abrasive surface at North Weald, and I reckon it took between 1mm and 2mm off the tread over the course of the day. So not that bad really.

(b) if the point of a limit handling course is to know how to handle your powerful RWD car, there's little point, IMO, in doing such a course in a car other than your own. Obviously a TVR will handle very differently from an S2000 which will handle differently to an Elise. The skills are transferable, of course, but I did my course so that I could feel where my limits are, and where the limits of my powerful RWD road car are.

You can hire an Elise from Carlimits - Andy Walsh - costs a couple of hundred quid, which seems good value to me. I think they only have one though, so that may not be good for you if a bunch of you want to do it.

Hope that's of some help

Neal

[Silentz]

Thanks.

Re: Tyre costs - this is the killer really. My tyres are BMW runflats, which are fairly expensive.. however the two friends who are definitely interested have a 911 (fat tyres) and a Jag XK (£250 per corner). Carving a couple of mm off each £250 tyre isn't top of his agenda. It's not necessarily a deal-breaker though.

I do know what you're saying as well - transferring skills from an elise to a two-ton estate or coupe is going to be hard. And the 911 is just going to be totally different.

Any other ideas?

[Rob_the_Sparky]

I assume you aren't interested in skid pan training? There are plenty of places down South that do it so can't think it will be hard to find one local to you. Clearly focusing on skid control and recovery and a good laugh to do.

Rob

[hardboiledPhil]

If you're lucky then it will rain throughout your Walshy day just like it did for me. No wear to the tyres on the Boxster I had at the time.

Whether you use your car or someone else's, realistically you're going to have to pay for the tyres somehow or other no matter who's car you're in.

[waremark]

Difficult decision whether to use your own car.

I used a hired Elise for a day with Don Palmer. Don't believe the guys telling you this sort of thing does not wear your car - it is not only the tyres, but brakes, suspension, everything. BTW, two of us shared the hired Elise, and the day with Don worked out at similar cost to Andy Walsh on a 2 to 1.

After playing with the Elise, sure you can have a brief go in your own car. This might be a sensible combination.

If you find someone who uses the wet grip facility at MIRA (Nuneaton in the Midlands) that facility uses very low grip surfaces which do not cause much wear. (I have been there with John Lyon). But in other ways what you learn is more limited, you pay a lot for a shorter time, and it would probably not be suitable for a group.