Help! suddenly my clutch pedal fell half way down...

[panic]

Suddenly i felt the clutch pedal fell half way down, the clutch still engage/desingage but i fell not entirely, infact the gear enter with some difficulty...i've checked the oil in clutch sistem: full. No evident malfunction on the pedal either...it just fell half way down.

In 11 years never happen something like this...any of you ever had this problem? what are the causes and what would be the solution????

[rev-erend]

What gearbox do you have.. and car model (4.0 etc..)

OK - just seen it's a Griff 500 .. what year.

If you don't know the gearbox type - does the lever feel really light or quite stiff.

Edited by rev-erend on Thursday 18th October 22:07

[panic]

rev-erend said:

What gearbox do you have.. and car model (4.0 etc..)

OK - just seen it's a Griff 500 .. what year.

If you don't know the gearbox type - does the lever feel really light or quite stiff.

Edited by rev-erend on Thursday 18th October 22:07

it's a year '96 griffith, trans is a T5, usually the clutch feels stiff and have a long travel down, this afternoon i suddenly felt the clutch pedal travel to disingage the clutch got half short...pedal now is lower down to the carpet, still is able to disingage the gears but not fully as always...what can it be? i've showed the car to the mechanic, he cheked the oil but was plenty, the pedal was alright, but still the pedal is down there and i cannot powershift with peace of mind!!

[clive f]

I`d check for leeks at the slave and master cylinder, then bleed the syatem and see what happens.

[DarkMatter]

Without wishing to insult you or you mechanic, are you sure that your mechanic checked the clutch fluid reservoir and not the the brake master cylinder? He would have to remove the sealed cover to access the clutch fluid reservoir.

I recently had a similar problem with my clutch, but the pedal went right to the floor, there was still a little fluid in the reservoir.I replaced the clutch slave cylinder (bought from CleverTrevor) and replaced the clutch master cylinder seals (from inside the car!) and all is well now. I obtained part numbers from The Griffith Pages.

I hope that this helps.

[panic]

well, i checked the fluid in the reservoir that is inside a side of the engine bay, on my LHD this is on the drivers side, inside a sealed panel...i'm pretty sure that is the clutch oil tank, not the steering which stays right on the engine nor the brake which is on the same side of the clutch but visible on one side of the engine bay...well the clutch reservoir was full...this is the problem, if this is full, what could have happened then???

[spend]

clive f said:

I`d check for leeks at the slave and master cylinder, then bleed the syatem and see what happens.

I thought it Pasco that was obsessed with food?

Dave

[Pupp]

Sounds like the master cyl piston return spring might have broken... internal, behind the seal. Never found a source for these, so think it will be a new m/cyl if so.

[DarkMatter]

panic said:

well, i checked the fluid in the reservoir that is inside a side of the engine bay, on my LHD this is on the drivers side, inside a sealed panel...i'm pretty sure that is the clutch oil tank, not the steering which stays right on the engine nor the brake which is on the same side of the clutch but visible on one side of the engine bay...well the clutch reservoir was full...this is the problem, if this is full, what could have happened then???

Yes, that's the right one, thanks for confirming. Sorry, I don't have any other suggestions.

[panic]

Pupp said:

Sounds like the master cyl piston return spring might have broken... internal, behind the seal. Never found a source for these, so think it will be a new m/cyl if so.

could you let me have a pic of this part? or tell me where do i have to look for? it sounds like this is the cause and want to change it? who would have this part in stock? thanks

[2Munkys]

Get under the car and have a look through that gaping hole in the bell housing. Make sure the actuating rod is engaged correctly and check that all is well with the release arm. You may get a better view with the slave cylinder removed.

[DarkMatter]

clive f said:

I`d check for leaks at the slave and master cylinder, then bleed the system and see what happens.

I agree with Clive and suggest that you bleed the system next. If that corrects the problem then it is likely that the slave and/or master cylinder seals have worn.

[Pupp]

panic said:

Pupp said:

Sounds like the master cyl piston return spring might have broken... internal, behind the seal. Never found a source for these, so think it will be a new m/cyl if so.

could you let me have a pic of this part? or tell me where do i have to look for? it sounds like this is the cause and want to change it? who would have this part in stock? thanks

The spring can be accessed from inside the footwell, with the master cylinder still in situ. You will need to drain the fluid, remove the circlip from the nose of the master cylinder where the pedal rod emerges, and withdraw the rod/piston assembly which the spring is behind. They do break from time to time but I don't think are available as a separate part (unlike the seals). Any of the TVR specialists can supply a new oem cylinder and they are not that expensive, there are cheaper alternatives from some rally/race suppliers but care is needed to match fittings/obtain adapters although plenty have done this.

[panic]

thanks everybody for the inputs, advices and informations.
i have plenty to summarise this week end

Meantime can i still drive the car with the clutch pedal going half of its original way? still the clutch can be ingaged and desingaged alright, but need some more attention and 'push'...

[GreenV8S]

I think the most likely cause is a knackered clutch release arm which has worn through at the pivot. It's *possible* that it's simply a hydraulic problem, but from the symptoms I think a mechanical failure is more likely and the clutch release arm pivot is where I'd look.

[rev-erend]

GreenV8S said:

I think the most likely cause is a knackered clutch release arm which has worn through at the pivot. It's *possible* that it's simply a hydraulic problem, but from the symptoms I think a mechanical failure is more likely and the clutch release arm pivot is where I'd look.

I was thinking of this - as I know it's a problem with the LT77 box .. but not heard of it with the T5.

Hopefully it's hydraulic .. as it's easier to fix !

[Uncle Fester]

Master cylinder internal springs are not available separately as a mater of manufacturers safety policy.
I was talking to to their technical department some years ago about getting a spring separately.
The policy is because they assume is that the broken end of the spring has probably scored the cylinder bore.
While you might be able to replace the spring without removing the cylinder, if it has broken in situ, I suggest you don't. Follow the manufacturers safety advice.
Driving the car before it's fixed is unwise. You have lost on half of the pedal travel. If you loose the other half, you might not stop before hitting something.
As it is you're possibly damaging the gearbox if its insufficiently disengaging.

[panic]

...is it master cilinder substitution a complicated iussue? it's difficult to find where i live at the moment in Spain skilled pros on a tvr...would eventually range rover service be useful, i mean is this part similar or the same to the range V8? thanks

[GreenV8S]

I suggest you find out what the problem is before you start planning too far into the repairs. Finding out doesn't require any particular skill, it just needs somebody to get underneath and see what's actually happening.

[Pupp]

Uncle Fester said:

Master cylinder internal springs are not available separately as a mater of manufacturers safety policy.
I was talking to to their technical department some years ago about getting a spring separately.
The policy is because they assume is that the broken end of the spring has probably scored the cylinder bore.
While you might be able to replace the spring without removing the cylinder, if it has broken in situ, I suggest you don't. Follow the manufacturers safety advice.
Driving the car before it's fixed is unwise. You have lost on half of the pedal travel. If you loose the other half, you might not stop before hitting something.
As it is you're possibly damaging the gearbox if its insufficiently disengaging.

Not doubting for a second what was said but that logic is a bit off isn't it? All a bore score would result in is a possible weep past the seal (after some time if not immediately unless it was an obvious gouge), well I've seen new ones weep straight out the packaging and it's not like they last very long before leaking even when they're good to start with. If 'safety' was such a priority, you'd think the basic component would be rather better to start with. Just sounds like a policy to guarantee repeat business to me as they knew fine well they'd sell new units after the springs fail, which they're prone to do after so many cycles in regular use.