Newbie (warning - long and perhaps boring)
Discussion
Hi,
I am seriously considering building an Ultima GTR especially with the price/performance ratio being so favourable on an Ultima as compared to other cars.
I have been a Porsche owner for the last 15 years and have wrenched on my cars from the outset (except for warrantied items).
Before Porsches,(in my University days) I rebuilt small block chevys because they were inexpensive, very reliable and besides, I could't afford anything else, but there was not much in the way of a performance chassis that these motors could bolt onto at the time,. The Ultima seems to have solved that dilemma.
I have not as yet seen an Ultima in the flesh - none in my part of the world - Western Canada - and I will therefore have to make a trip out either to Leicester or to California to make sure that I will be happy with the car, it's fit and finish and (to a lesser extent - from whats reported) it's handling/performance before I place the order.
I do have some basic questions regarding options though:
1. Full roll cage - is this necessary for a car that will only see the track three or four times a year. I guess it's my noggin in the end, but some thoughts would be welcome.
2. Aircon - I will drive this car only in our fairly cool summers, my climate precludes driving it year round but I will need some cooling. Is the stock ventilation system (helicopter vents) adequate?
3. Fit and finish in the cockpit - is the quality acceptable or is it very much like a "kit" car.
4. Resale - I know this is a very broad subject especially since there are very few cars in all of North America at present, however are these cars saleable in the UK market. I have not yet taken a complete bath on any of my Porsches so this is a question uppermost in my mind.
5. Engines - I can go to my local wreckers (breakers) and pick up a complete fuel injected (low Kms) Vette or Camaro engine for around $5,500 CDN (2,500pounds) or build a 400HP small block four bolt main with aluminum AFR (aluminium) heads, forged crank, Edelbrock victor junior manifold, decent pistons and rods for around the same money. What would you guys recommend?
Sorry for all of these questions.
BTW, Thanks to the owners who have painstakingly recorded their build information - these sites have been invaluable in aiding me in my decision making.
Thanks
Ikom
I am seriously considering building an Ultima GTR especially with the price/performance ratio being so favourable on an Ultima as compared to other cars.
I have been a Porsche owner for the last 15 years and have wrenched on my cars from the outset (except for warrantied items).
Before Porsches,(in my University days) I rebuilt small block chevys because they were inexpensive, very reliable and besides, I could't afford anything else, but there was not much in the way of a performance chassis that these motors could bolt onto at the time,. The Ultima seems to have solved that dilemma.
I have not as yet seen an Ultima in the flesh - none in my part of the world - Western Canada - and I will therefore have to make a trip out either to Leicester or to California to make sure that I will be happy with the car, it's fit and finish and (to a lesser extent - from whats reported) it's handling/performance before I place the order.
I do have some basic questions regarding options though:
1. Full roll cage - is this necessary for a car that will only see the track three or four times a year. I guess it's my noggin in the end, but some thoughts would be welcome.
2. Aircon - I will drive this car only in our fairly cool summers, my climate precludes driving it year round but I will need some cooling. Is the stock ventilation system (helicopter vents) adequate?
3. Fit and finish in the cockpit - is the quality acceptable or is it very much like a "kit" car.
4. Resale - I know this is a very broad subject especially since there are very few cars in all of North America at present, however are these cars saleable in the UK market. I have not yet taken a complete bath on any of my Porsches so this is a question uppermost in my mind.
5. Engines - I can go to my local wreckers (breakers) and pick up a complete fuel injected (low Kms) Vette or Camaro engine for around $5,500 CDN (2,500pounds) or build a 400HP small block four bolt main with aluminum AFR (aluminium) heads, forged crank, Edelbrock victor junior manifold, decent pistons and rods for around the same money. What would you guys recommend?
Sorry for all of these questions.
BTW, Thanks to the owners who have painstakingly recorded their build information - these sites have been invaluable in aiding me in my decision making.
Thanks
Ikom
Ikom
Welcome to the forum and I commend your choice of future car.
1. I would recommend the RAC roll cage. A roll over need not be restricted to just the track. Also it provides a 38mm tube around the windscreen frame which could be quite useful should you attempt to squeeze under the back of a truck.
2. The cockpit (GTR) has no other ventilation than the ‘Helicopter Vents’. Even in the UK the A/C is a good idea.
3. I would not describe the cockpit interior as ‘Kit Car’ but it is most definitely ‘Race Car’.
If building the car yourself the fit and finish is what you make it, carpets, leather trim, leather seats etc.
4. It seems to me that cars up to a year old can sell for more than the cost of building yourself. I expect a new Porsche would lose nearly a third of its purchase price in the same period.
5. I don’t know enough about the modern engines you are looking at in the breakers but would think this route would have an impact on resale value.
Steve
Welcome to the forum and I commend your choice of future car.
1. I would recommend the RAC roll cage. A roll over need not be restricted to just the track. Also it provides a 38mm tube around the windscreen frame which could be quite useful should you attempt to squeeze under the back of a truck.
2. The cockpit (GTR) has no other ventilation than the ‘Helicopter Vents’. Even in the UK the A/C is a good idea.
3. I would not describe the cockpit interior as ‘Kit Car’ but it is most definitely ‘Race Car’.
If building the car yourself the fit and finish is what you make it, carpets, leather trim, leather seats etc.
4. It seems to me that cars up to a year old can sell for more than the cost of building yourself. I expect a new Porsche would lose nearly a third of its purchase price in the same period.
5. I don’t know enough about the modern engines you are looking at in the breakers but would think this route would have an impact on resale value.
Steve
Ikom,
I visited the factory the weekend before LeMans, and spent several hours inspecting the cars in the shop - I was very impressed with the fit/finish, and the quality of the fiberglass surface is excellent. To some extent, the "feel" of the interior, or all of the car for that matter, depends on the attention to detail and care during assembly. I have studied the builders sites online until I feel they are memorized, and feel very confident for my build. I placed my order for a black GTR last week, so the waiting has begun.
For engine selection, a side note about smog laws in Canada. Ontario exempts cars registered as "kit car" from smog testing. I'm not sure if this applies in your province.
A word of caution about importing any "kit car" into Canada. You must get the parts you want to order approved by Transport Canada BEFORE ordering! Once they approve the list, then you receive a letter that you may have to present at the point of entry to assure Customs that the crate is approved and is considered "parts", not a vehicle subject to FMVSS and the Canadian equivalent. I just went through this process. Be patient and persistent with them, and they will be fair. Not getting the pre-approval may cause your kit to be rejected at the border. If you need more info, contact me by email.
Allan
I visited the factory the weekend before LeMans, and spent several hours inspecting the cars in the shop - I was very impressed with the fit/finish, and the quality of the fiberglass surface is excellent. To some extent, the "feel" of the interior, or all of the car for that matter, depends on the attention to detail and care during assembly. I have studied the builders sites online until I feel they are memorized, and feel very confident for my build. I placed my order for a black GTR last week, so the waiting has begun.
For engine selection, a side note about smog laws in Canada. Ontario exempts cars registered as "kit car" from smog testing. I'm not sure if this applies in your province.
A word of caution about importing any "kit car" into Canada. You must get the parts you want to order approved by Transport Canada BEFORE ordering! Once they approve the list, then you receive a letter that you may have to present at the point of entry to assure Customs that the crate is approved and is considered "parts", not a vehicle subject to FMVSS and the Canadian equivalent. I just went through this process. Be patient and persistent with them, and they will be fair. Not getting the pre-approval may cause your kit to be rejected at the border. If you need more info, contact me by email.
Allan
Thanks for the welcome, the encouragement and the information - it is very much appreciated.
I will add aircon, rollcage, etc. to my purchase list. The wing will be a future purchase, however, my plan is to purchase as much of the components as possible initially because of my great distance from the factory and the inherent problems with shippers and customs. Once or twice will be more than enough.
Allan - I am located in Alberta and we thankfully (depending on one's point of view) don't have smog laws at present but I was not aware of the Transport Canada approval/requirement for "kit car" parts categorization. I definitely don't have the resources for conducting tests for a new vehicle or to pay full taxes on a complete vehicle rather than on parts.
I would appreciate any information you have on the customs tarrifs imposed on your kit of parts and any other hoops that I will have to jump through. I will send you a PM as you suggested.
I am thinking of ordering a silver body - is this a prepainted option from the factory or is it wiser to stay with the standard gelcoat colours?
I will add aircon, rollcage, etc. to my purchase list. The wing will be a future purchase, however, my plan is to purchase as much of the components as possible initially because of my great distance from the factory and the inherent problems with shippers and customs. Once or twice will be more than enough.
Allan - I am located in Alberta and we thankfully (depending on one's point of view) don't have smog laws at present but I was not aware of the Transport Canada approval/requirement for "kit car" parts categorization. I definitely don't have the resources for conducting tests for a new vehicle or to pay full taxes on a complete vehicle rather than on parts.
I would appreciate any information you have on the customs tarrifs imposed on your kit of parts and any other hoops that I will have to jump through. I will send you a PM as you suggested.
I am thinking of ordering a silver body - is this a prepainted option from the factory or is it wiser to stay with the standard gelcoat colours?
Ikom,
Unfortunately, Transport Canada wants to see a "starter kit" and little else when importing a "kit car" into Canada. The guidelines they follow are not actual law AFIK, but are decided by 2 people that I know of. I was told on the phone by Harry that "most of the fuel system, most of the brake system, most of the suspension" will not be allowed. They are trying to prevent manufacturers from importing cars in pieces which don't meet FMVSS, and apply the same rule to private people also. They also require that the first shipment be the only shipment 'you' import from that "kit" manufacturer.
My order is for the GTR body, latches and hinges installed, glass, steering rack, steering column, and rear canopy strut kit. They only hesitated on approving the steering rack because it is related to the suspension, but approved in the end. They don't want to see "mechanical parts" in the shipment.
Transport Canada has jurisdiction over importing vehicles, or parts which could be assembled into a vehicle, but no jurisdiction over stand alone parts.
My experience so far with Transport Canada is positive, just be courteous and persistent, and you will probably get approval for the basic "kit". Note that these are my statements from my experience - be sure to ask Transport Canada to get the real word, and get it in writing if possible.
Allan
Unfortunately, Transport Canada wants to see a "starter kit" and little else when importing a "kit car" into Canada. The guidelines they follow are not actual law AFIK, but are decided by 2 people that I know of. I was told on the phone by Harry that "most of the fuel system, most of the brake system, most of the suspension" will not be allowed. They are trying to prevent manufacturers from importing cars in pieces which don't meet FMVSS, and apply the same rule to private people also. They also require that the first shipment be the only shipment 'you' import from that "kit" manufacturer.
My order is for the GTR body, latches and hinges installed, glass, steering rack, steering column, and rear canopy strut kit. They only hesitated on approving the steering rack because it is related to the suspension, but approved in the end. They don't want to see "mechanical parts" in the shipment.
Transport Canada has jurisdiction over importing vehicles, or parts which could be assembled into a vehicle, but no jurisdiction over stand alone parts.
My experience so far with Transport Canada is positive, just be courteous and persistent, and you will probably get approval for the basic "kit". Note that these are my statements from my experience - be sure to ask Transport Canada to get the real word, and get it in writing if possible.
Allan
I Agree with the above posts. I used an LS6 engine. I purchased a warranty core long block (everthing except manifold and electronics) for $800. Modified and rebuilt it to 525hp. It got 22 miles per US gallon on Power Tour and has done 10.92 @ 131 in 1/4 mi.
Jay Esterer has a GTR in Western Canada.
Jeff Schwartz
crystal lake IL USA
www.worksstand.com/jeffs.htm
Jay Esterer has a GTR in Western Canada.
Jeff Schwartz
crystal lake IL USA
www.worksstand.com/jeffs.htm
jschwartz said:
I purchased a warranty core long block (everthing except manifold and electronics) for $800. Modified and rebuilt it to 525hp. It got 22 miles per US gallon on Power Tour and has done 10.92 @ 131 in 1/4 mi.
Jeff Schwartz
crystal lake IL USA
Hi Jeff,
Any information on what you did to the LS6? and how you mated it to the G50 tranny?
Thanks
CNC Ported Lingenfelter Heads, milled for 11:1 compression, GM ASA Racing Cam Hydraulic Roller, GM ASA Racing Computer and Wire Harness, Home fabbed
1 7/8 " Headers, 3" Exhaust, 38# injectors, fabbed Sheetmetal intake, Ported stock Throttle body, 85mm MAF. Adaptor and flywheel from Kennedy Engineered Products.
1 7/8 " Headers, 3" Exhaust, 38# injectors, fabbed Sheetmetal intake, Ported stock Throttle body, 85mm MAF. Adaptor and flywheel from Kennedy Engineered Products.
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