The definitive "What Shocks" thread
Discussion
Guys,
I need to replace the dampers on my Mk1 Tuscan, and am looking for the experience and advice of the PH collective! So without getting into a thread like this: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=242... ..... !
No plans to track the car, but you never know, so I'm looking for an optimal set up for A and B roads.
The choice (so far) seems to be narrowed down to:
- Gaz Gold at about £500
- Protech at about £670
- Nitrons (Basic, non-remote reservoir) at about £1000.
Worth the extra?
Cheers,
FT.
I need to replace the dampers on my Mk1 Tuscan, and am looking for the experience and advice of the PH collective! So without getting into a thread like this: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=242... ..... !
No plans to track the car, but you never know, so I'm looking for an optimal set up for A and B roads.
The choice (so far) seems to be narrowed down to:
- Gaz Gold at about £500
- Protech at about £670
- Nitrons (Basic, non-remote reservoir) at about £1000.
Worth the extra?
Cheers,
FT.
I replaced the 30,000 mile and 3.5 year old shocks on my mk1 with Gaz Golds, through Derek at Absolutely Shocks. The car has been completely transformed - much more compliant over small bumps, but much less wallow over larger bumps. The geometry setup has also had a huge effect on the car's stability at high speed. The other advantage was that when touring Europe recently with a boot full of luggage, I could just dial in an extra click on the damping to better control the weight at the back.
I've heard from a small number of people who have had reliability issues with Gaz Golds, as I'm sure some people have with Nitron and Protech. However I got the dynamometer plots from when my individual shocks were bench tested at the factory, so at least I know they were performing to spec when they were fitted. They've been faultless in about 3,000 miles so far this summer.
Ultimately you need to talk to the various suppliers and find one who's in your area if you need after sales service, and who gives you a explanation you like for why they work the way they do. I concluded that choosing someone like Derek, Jools at Trackcar, or Topcats to do the setup is probably more important than which hardware you fit, at least for road use.
Pete
I've heard from a small number of people who have had reliability issues with Gaz Golds, as I'm sure some people have with Nitron and Protech. However I got the dynamometer plots from when my individual shocks were bench tested at the factory, so at least I know they were performing to spec when they were fitted. They've been faultless in about 3,000 miles so far this summer.
Ultimately you need to talk to the various suppliers and find one who's in your area if you need after sales service, and who gives you a explanation you like for why they work the way they do. I concluded that choosing someone like Derek, Jools at Trackcar, or Topcats to do the setup is probably more important than which hardware you fit, at least for road use.
Pete
pete said:
I replaced the 30,000 mile and 3.5 year old shocks on my mk1 with Gaz Golds, through Derek at Absolutely Shocks. The car has been completely transformed - much more compliant over small bumps, but much less wallow over larger bumps. The geometry setup has also had a huge effect on the car's stability at high speed. The other advantage was that when touring Europe recently with a boot full of luggage, I could just dial in an extra click on the damping to better control the weight at the back.
I've heard from a small number of people who have had reliability issues with Gaz Golds, as I'm sure some people have with Nitron and Protech. However I got the dynamometer plots from when my individual shocks were bench tested at the factory, so at least I know they were performing to spec when they were fitted. They've been faultless in about 3,000 miles so far this summer.
Ultimately you need to talk to the various suppliers and find one who's in your area if you need after sales service, and who gives you a explanation you like for why they work the way they do. I concluded that choosing someone like Derek, Jools at Trackcar, or Topcats to do the setup is probably more important than which hardware you fit, at least for road use.
Pete
Thanks, you raise a good point, which is that many people get new shocks fitted at the same time as having the geometry re-set... making it hard to tell where the benefits are coming from.I've heard from a small number of people who have had reliability issues with Gaz Golds, as I'm sure some people have with Nitron and Protech. However I got the dynamometer plots from when my individual shocks were bench tested at the factory, so at least I know they were performing to spec when they were fitted. They've been faultless in about 3,000 miles so far this summer.
Ultimately you need to talk to the various suppliers and find one who's in your area if you need after sales service, and who gives you a explanation you like for why they work the way they do. I concluded that choosing someone like Derek, Jools at Trackcar, or Topcats to do the setup is probably more important than which hardware you fit, at least for road use.
Pete
I got the car back last night with the geometry re-set, and (despite my complete lack of skill as a driver!) it really does feel better already. This despite having at least two shocks which are of very doubtful efficiency (read: leaking!) I should think they are original (7 years and 30k miles on them then) as the spring platforms are all corroded and seized. It also looks like the car has been hitting the bump stops rather a lot.
All in all I'm looking forward to getting the entire system fully sorted!
Cheers,
Tom.
Fume Troll said:
It also looks like the car has been hitting the bump stops rather a lot. Tom.
Can't repeat this enough because it was very scary but when mine was doing this it cracked the upper wishbone with the added shock going through it and I was a gnats f*rt away from having the suspension fail completely, so get the rest of the suspension components looked at carefully as well.I had Nitrons on my MK1 although five years ago there was not much else available at the time, they did make a huge difference to the ride & handling of the car.However my 06 MK2 Tuscan S is fitted with the revised Bilstein dampers and I find them even better for road use, and price wise they are available for a bit less than others that have been mentioned.
There is no doubt that almost any of the aftermarket kits would improve the Tuscan, IMHO it is the most improvable TVR of them all. It just depends how much you want to throw at it.
I have kitted out about 15 Tuscans in the last couple of months and in general the Mk1 models are undersprung front and rear and the shocks are wrongly valved as standard.
What I don't understand is how revalved Bilstein shocks can work with what are patently wrong spring rates, some of the main dealers have fitted Avo with original springs and they don't work either IMHO.
I'm not having a go at Bilstein because when somebody like John Ravenscroft specifies valving and spring rates as on the Sagaris, they work perfectly.
They are good shocks but up to now I don't see any efforts to get a matching spring/damper set up that actually works.
BTW the Tuscan 2 cars are nearly as improvable, Topcats,myself and Track V Road have fitted kits to about 8 cars with very pleasing results.
Lastly, I agree on the geometry comments but frankly I geo at least 7 cars a week and Tuscans are not the exception, every car I look at is miles out and no mattere how knackered the shocks are, having all the wheels pointing in the right direction does help somewhat.
I have kitted out about 15 Tuscans in the last couple of months and in general the Mk1 models are undersprung front and rear and the shocks are wrongly valved as standard.
What I don't understand is how revalved Bilstein shocks can work with what are patently wrong spring rates, some of the main dealers have fitted Avo with original springs and they don't work either IMHO.
I'm not having a go at Bilstein because when somebody like John Ravenscroft specifies valving and spring rates as on the Sagaris, they work perfectly.
They are good shocks but up to now I don't see any efforts to get a matching spring/damper set up that actually works.
BTW the Tuscan 2 cars are nearly as improvable, Topcats,myself and Track V Road have fitted kits to about 8 cars with very pleasing results.
Lastly, I agree on the geometry comments but frankly I geo at least 7 cars a week and Tuscans are not the exception, every car I look at is miles out and no mattere how knackered the shocks are, having all the wheels pointing in the right direction does help somewhat.
Edited by Ab Shocks on Thursday 1st November 21:02
I had Gaz Golds fitted to my Tuscan S by Top Cats Racing. When I did my research the general consensus was that Gaz Golds are a better compromise for the road and Nitrons a better compromise for the track. I have enjoyed a few track days since and but of course even if that is 10 a year, the other 355 days the car is on the road. Besides Nitrons are double the price of Gaz! I have never clicked mine up or down as I would not know when/how much to. Maybe Derek or others you can offer me some advice on this as I feel I should be making use of the adjustability. Thanks.
jilapau said:
I had Gaz Golds fitted to my Tuscan S by Top Cats Racing. When I did my research the general consensus was that Gaz Golds are a better compromise for the road and Nitrons a better compromise for the track. I have enjoyed a few track days since and but of course even if that is 10 a year, the other 355 days the car is on the road. Besides Nitrons are double the price of Gaz! I have never clicked mine up or down as I would not know when/how much to. Maybe Derek or others you can offer me some advice on this as I feel I should be making use of the adjustability. Thanks.
They are not difficult to adjust, just remember to turn them clockwise whilst facing the adjuster to increase the bump/rebound.I would suggest that an increase of 8-10 clicks from road settings would be suitable for trackdays.
Anbody unsure could give me a call on 01606 836369
pete said:
I replaced the 30,000 mile and 3.5 year old shocks on my mk1 with Gaz Golds, through Derek at Absolutely Shocks. The car has been completely transformed - much more compliant over small bumps, but much less wallow over larger bumps. The geometry setup has also had a huge effect on the car's stability at high speed.
Pete
I've just had my shocks done by Derek at Absolutely shocks and can recommend him and the shocks.Pete
I got the same results as above. I love the fact that the car is more comfy now. Not that I expect a magic carpet ride but bumps were almost too much to bare before I had them done. Crashing and banging over larger bumps and pot holes.
The main thing with Derek is he really does know his stuff. He adjusted my car based on the way my car drives and handles adjusting the toe in (if I remember right) to a setting specifically for my car. It's this knowledge with the geo settings that maximises the up-rating of shocks IMHO.
I'm an average driver and I very much doubt I would really feel the benifit (if there is any) to throwing even more money at my car.
For me GAZ Golds and an expert setup was the way to go as they're fully adustable, uprated shocks with someone fitting/setting them up who know's what he's doing.
Why spend any more??
900T-R said:
scooterscot said:
We have our own spec Bilstien dampers which use the Sagaris rates.
The spring rates on a Sagaris are about twice those on a Mk1 Tuscan, though... Life is a compromise.
Ab Shocks said:
900T-R said:
scooterscot said:
We have our own spec Bilstien dampers which use the Sagaris rates.
The spring rates on a Sagaris are about twice those on a Mk1 Tuscan, though... 
The combination of hyperactive steering and underdeveloped suspension always felt a bit too ADD for comfort on these...My point however was that the Sagaris damper settings were developed to work with far stiffer spring rates than those on the Mk1 Tuscan; I'm not sure how the Sagaris-spec dampers could work satisfactorily in combination with OE springs.
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