Toyo R888 tyre wear problem - advice needed please
Discussion
was at silverstone on sat on the National Circuit (which is a cr*p loop - would never have gone if i had known what it was like). Basically a triangle with 3 hard righthanders.
i now have a wear "groove" about 1 inch wide on my front nearside (passenger side) tyre just off center all the way round the tyre.
Now this tyre got a fair bit of hard cornering pushed on it but this is really weird wear.
I was running at 25psi (cold) had no trouble at snetterton last week (clockwise circuit as well) but this wear looks to have sh*gged the tyre a bit.
The car is an '87 BMW 325 weighing sub 1000kgs and track day speced up - any advice on this uneven wear would really help - i can't afford to knacker tyres like this! tracking/geometry/pressures - any advice really appreciated.
i now have a wear "groove" about 1 inch wide on my front nearside (passenger side) tyre just off center all the way round the tyre.
Now this tyre got a fair bit of hard cornering pushed on it but this is really weird wear.
I was running at 25psi (cold) had no trouble at snetterton last week (clockwise circuit as well) but this wear looks to have sh*gged the tyre a bit.
The car is an '87 BMW 325 weighing sub 1000kgs and track day speced up - any advice on this uneven wear would really help - i can't afford to knacker tyres like this! tracking/geometry/pressures - any advice really appreciated.
Edited by poshgit on Sunday 11th November 22:10
My front left tyre is wearing in what I think is a pretty uneven / strange way too.
I`ve posted a photo of it, its hard to capture by camera, but I have drawn a red line that indicates the tread depth. It starts off on the outside then where the grooves finish, rapidly drops off, then slowly increases across the centre of the tyre to be the same depth on the grooves on the inside. You can see that the outer groove starts off a few mm deep, and by the time it gets to the centre solid section, the groove has almost gone.
I spoke to Toyo and they said on the MK2 Golf, this is what most people get
I`ve posted a photo of it, its hard to capture by camera, but I have drawn a red line that indicates the tread depth. It starts off on the outside then where the grooves finish, rapidly drops off, then slowly increases across the centre of the tyre to be the same depth on the grooves on the inside. You can see that the outer groove starts off a few mm deep, and by the time it gets to the centre solid section, the groove has almost gone.
I spoke to Toyo and they said on the MK2 Golf, this is what most people get
Yep, that's exactly what I get on my Integra. It seems like lower pressure is required, but then they start to blister around the edges. I run at about 26PSI cold (normal road pressure is 32). They feel great and I get good performance from them. I'll try and post some pics of mine tonight.
Wh00sher said:
My front left tyre is wearing in what I think is a pretty uneven / strange way too.
I`ve posted a photo of it, its hard to capture by camera, but I have drawn a red line that indicates the tread depth. It starts off on the outside then where the grooves finish, rapidly drops off, then slowly increases across the centre of the tyre to be the same depth on the grooves on the inside. You can see that the outer groove starts off a few mm deep, and by the time it gets to the centre solid section, the groove has almost gone.
I spoke to Toyo and they said on the MK2 Golf, this is what most people get
If the thread is thinner @centre compared to the edges, then the pressure is too high, might be worth checking tyre with a temp guage on track, to see what you get, as the wear might be from road use. I`ve posted a photo of it, its hard to capture by camera, but I have drawn a red line that indicates the tread depth. It starts off on the outside then where the grooves finish, rapidly drops off, then slowly increases across the centre of the tyre to be the same depth on the grooves on the inside. You can see that the outer groove starts off a few mm deep, and by the time it gets to the centre solid section, the groove has almost gone.
I spoke to Toyo and they said on the MK2 Golf, this is what most people get
have a look here to see if it helps:
http://www.openpitlane.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?...
Wh00sher said:
My front left tyre is wearing in what I think is a pretty uneven / strange way too.
I`ve posted a photo of it,.......
[I spoke to Toyo and they said on the MK2 Golf, this is what most people get
Your pic is exactly the wear i am getting. I`ve posted a photo of it,.......
[I spoke to Toyo and they said on the MK2 Golf, this is what most people get
It have only done 2 track days on these tyres and if i got pulled by plod then i would get 3 points because my tyre would be illegal (>1.6mm over 75% of the tyre including the center section etc) and if you use yours on the road you would get done too w00sher.
Don't get me wrong, i love the grip and feel of the tyres - they make me feel that i am driving like a god on the track (well compared to my old tyres which were off a taxi, they do!) and i am probably not because i am still a rubbish driver, but this sort of wear kind of defeats the object of a road/track tyre. I might as well have gone and bought some slicks and kept my cheap road tyres as well.
i have only been on two clockwise tracks with these tyres - be interested to know if anyone has been on a couple of anticlockwise tracks and had the same wear pattern on the offside front. (my other 3 tyres are fine)
i guess this is the thing with track cars - you get one bit better (tyres) then you have to upgrade something else (i assume adjusting camber/geometry at vast cost would help?).
going to have a word with Toyo and a few track day tyre chaps at my next track day and try and get some advice on tyre pressure set up etc before my next outing. was hoping to get 7 - 10 trak days out of these, after all my car is not exactly fast and weighs sub 1000kgs!
keep the views/opinions coming please people. I have also heard Toyo do harder/softer sidewalls - might be worth looking into next time.
In a word- camber.
Basically you've not got much & to even out that wear you need lots. Well coupled to harder spring rates too, in order to stop so much weight being transfered
The SELOC e30 racers found when they swapped to 888s they needed more camber than before, lots are running fairly extreme camber like 5 deg neg, 4 deg commonly mentioned & 2.5 as a minimum.
You need top adjustable camber plates- not cheap, or to re-drill the mounts for the front strut to do this.
Not ideal however if its still a road car as you'll get awful tyre wear on road.
Basically you've not got much & to even out that wear you need lots. Well coupled to harder spring rates too, in order to stop so much weight being transfered
The SELOC e30 racers found when they swapped to 888s they needed more camber than before, lots are running fairly extreme camber like 5 deg neg, 4 deg commonly mentioned & 2.5 as a minimum.
You need top adjustable camber plates- not cheap, or to re-drill the mounts for the front strut to do this.
Not ideal however if its still a road car as you'll get awful tyre wear on road.
iguana said:
In a word- camber.
Basically you've not got much & to even out that wear you need lots. Well coupled to harder spring rates too, in order to stop so much weight being transfered
The SELOC e30 racers found when they swapped to 888s they needed more camber than before, lots are running fairly extreme camber like 5 deg neg, 4 deg commonly mentioned & 2.5 as a minimum.
You need top adjustable camber plates- not cheap, or to re-drill the mounts for the front strut to do this.
Not ideal however if its still a road car as you'll get awful tyre wear on road.
yes - i think camber may well be an issue and is something i will have to look at, but as you say road driving then completely knackers your tyres.Basically you've not got much & to even out that wear you need lots. Well coupled to harder spring rates too, in order to stop so much weight being transfered
The SELOC e30 racers found when they swapped to 888s they needed more camber than before, lots are running fairly extreme camber like 5 deg neg, 4 deg commonly mentioned & 2.5 as a minimum.
You need top adjustable camber plates- not cheap, or to re-drill the mounts for the front strut to do this.
Not ideal however if its still a road car as you'll get awful tyre wear on road.
I was looking for a tyre where i can drive to the track and then cane it round with a reasonable level of grip then drive it back. however the more i get into trackdays the more i am learning that compromises may not pay off/exist. slicks and road tyres may be the way to go - but then all your running gear/suspension/bushes takes a pounding, so more expense on upgrading this next!
jleroux said:
buy some decent tyres? seriously, toyos are cheap for a reason
jonny, i would appreciate your input on this - your BATcats must take a pounding - do you run them on slicks - what about in the wet?what other tyres would you advise a track/road car to run on? I only use my car for track days, not for day to day driving except to and from the track days, so the tyres can be very track biased if that makes sense. My car is a tatty old e30 (pic in my profile) nicely set up for track day use, but budget constraints sadly do exist......
buying cheap tyres is a false economy if they're going to die after 2 track days. we run Yokohama A539s on our superlights - hardly a track day tyre but perfect for what we need - an all-weather tyre that's nice and progressive.
I used to run A048R's on my eRise which were fantastic but put a lot of strain on the rest of the car (brakes in particular) and hence ended up costing too much on a fun/£ basis so I went back to the Advan Neovas - a high performance road tyre designed for the elise but that has been known to work well on much larger cars, too. I have customers running the Advan Neovas on Integra Type-Rs and Pug 205/309 GTi's so I can't imagine they will struggle on the E30. Only downside is they are only available in 2 sizes, 195/50/15 and 225/45/16 - the latter should be OK for the E30 though IIRC.
The Advan Neovas are an amazing all-weather tyre that wear incredibly well given the grip levels and are nice and progressive to boot.
Before anyone harps up about me being biased for commercial reasons - these are a lotus specific tyre and our profit margins are miniscule - i'd much rather sell a set of R888's and make 20-30% but sadly i'm not enough of a money grabbing b**tard to sell someone a product I think is dogsh!t.
/2p
Jonny
BaT
I used to run A048R's on my eRise which were fantastic but put a lot of strain on the rest of the car (brakes in particular) and hence ended up costing too much on a fun/£ basis so I went back to the Advan Neovas - a high performance road tyre designed for the elise but that has been known to work well on much larger cars, too. I have customers running the Advan Neovas on Integra Type-Rs and Pug 205/309 GTi's so I can't imagine they will struggle on the E30. Only downside is they are only available in 2 sizes, 195/50/15 and 225/45/16 - the latter should be OK for the E30 though IIRC.
The Advan Neovas are an amazing all-weather tyre that wear incredibly well given the grip levels and are nice and progressive to boot.
Before anyone harps up about me being biased for commercial reasons - these are a lotus specific tyre and our profit margins are miniscule - i'd much rather sell a set of R888's and make 20-30% but sadly i'm not enough of a money grabbing b**tard to sell someone a product I think is dogsh!t.
/2p
Jonny
BaT
That looks to be the same wear pattern we get on all four corners on the 924. It doesnt affect their performance though. They seem to get better as they wear and they continue to work brilliantly even when they are well below the legal minimum tread depth. Like the BMW's we run around 5 deg negative camber to get the best out of them. We also swap the tyres around on the rims so we can put them on the other side of the car and get a bit more use out of them.
poshgit said:
I only use my car for track days, not for day to day driving except to and from the track days, so the tyres can be very track biased if that makes sense.
Same as me & my track 325i e30 then (looks like we've got the same cack old wheels too!) 
As its not a daily driver etc its simple, sort ya camber & get cack old set of bmw 14inch rubber to get you to & from distant tracks, fist in the boot easily- well so does a set of 4 15 inchers ctually if needed. Total cost sub £50!
I've not yet done the mega amber thing, should sort it really, but not an issue with slicks, only when my dim mate used the e30 on 888s on a hot day when I was on my hols & has done his best to destroy the tyres has it become an issue, I'll be looking to do the re drilled suspension option unless I can find some cheap camber adjust top mounts.
If u want best value for money and some friendly advice abt Toyos 888 s ask Steve Girdwood ,Simply Tyres .............he fits enough of them and to all types of car . They only seem cheap compared to Corsa s, which i can never get in my pretty standard size when i want them or Michelin Cup sports , which as an old Fart i find terrifying in the wet ! Combination of pressures and Cambers covers all points raised and u cant have it all , more camber, even adjusting pressures for track, will wear ur tyres out very quickly on normal road driving ............producing a differnt footprint on the black stuff ...............compromise is sadly what some of this is all about.
jleroux said:
buy some decent tyres? seriously, toyos are cheap for a reason
well Toyos are not exactly cheap! just cheaper! it's only cheap compared to Mitch cups and Corsas, like half the price with 90% of the performance, can't say better than that!
I've done 4 trackdays on mine now and I've still got at least a trackday's tyre left on it. That's including a road trip to the Ring and another trip to Spa!! Now that's not too bad is it!
I'm was using R888s on my 964C2, where they were lasting 5-6 trackdays. Now got them on my 964RS cup car, where they're actually lasting longer - about 5 days so far and they're little more than half worn. Both cars are basically driven to and from the track, little other road use. Main differences are the camber setup - the C2 was running around -1.5, whereas the cup is about -3 all round - and less roll and a bit less weight. Also found that dropping the pressures a bit helps (also cuts the noise a bit!). I've been surprised how well they've been wearing.
I had a set of R888's fitted to my VX220 at a Gold Track event in August, I've done 4 days since then and around 3000 track miles and they are still fine. Really good price compared to the Yoko's and at the end of the day they are for track day use, I'm not trying to set a qualifying time.
This is typical wear for Silverstone with a front engined car, it has happened both times I have had my 968 there (its running 3 degrees of negative camber at the front). The conclusion I have reached after a discussing it with friends is that Luffield is to blame its such a long slow corner that really puts servere pressure on the left front tyre and its so easy to turn in and immediately get understeer that can last all the way to the exit. I would also say that 25psi cold is probably too low a pressure for R888s, I use 40 hot on the 968 and this definitely gives even wear across the tyre.
Richard.
Richard.
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