McLaren leaking info

[npope]

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071123092057.shtml 

I see McLaren are trying to get Renault in more trouble by leaking info to the press, why are there no hate threads for FIA and McLaren like there was for Ferrari when the spygate started?

I am sure all you die hard F1 fans will jump on McLarens back just likes Ferrari, it must just be a matter of time.

[Nick_F]

Perhaps McLaren are beginning to learn what it's necessary to do in order to come out on top off the track - they have been set a clear example to follow, after all.

[Doobs]

npope said:

I see McLaren are allegedly trying to get Renault in more trouble by leaking info to the press ...

You missed a word out!

npope said:

... why are there no hate threads for FIA and McLaren like there was for Ferrari when the spygate started?

Because the FIA dont show massive bias towards McLaren, they show massive bias against them.

That's cleared that up then

[rev-erend]

Perhaps necause McLaren are now playing the Ferrari game.

If you can't beat them them join them.

[Adrian W]

If you have tried to beat the system and lost and you want to stay in the sport, theirs only one thing left.

[kevin ritson]

npope said:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071123092057.shtml 

I see McLaren are trying to get Renault in more trouble by leaking info to the press, why are there no hate threads for FIA and McLaren like there was for Ferrari when the spygate started?

I am sure all you die hard F1 fans will jump on McLarens back just likes Ferrari, it must just be a matter of time.

And I'm equally sure a pro-Ferrari troll like you should be quite happy for them to do this, as it's the Todt way

[flemke]

npope said:

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071123092057.shtml 

I see McLaren are trying to get Renault in more trouble by leaking info to the press, why are there no hate threads for FIA and McLaren like there was for Ferrari when the spygate started?

I am sure all you die hard F1 fans will jump on McLarens back just likes Ferrari, it must just be a matter of time.

I'm not sure what the problem is with telling the press the facts.
The problem with Todt and Three-card Monte's covertly briefing the Italian press was that they were making wild allegations which even to this day are unproved, and indeed seem to have been nothing more than paranoid fantasies. Yet after they inserted them into the public domain as they did, there are still many benighted souls who believe their histrionics.
After the bouffant billionaire tried to stick his oar before and at the second WMSC hearing, which had nothing whatsoever to do with him, he is now getting what he earned.

[JP_Midget]

I feel that they were forced into it from what has happened with the 'spy-gate' affair.

I'm sure that this kind of thing happens to varying degrees within the sport, as it does in industry. You can't brainwash your employees in their exit interviews, but I'm sure that they do all they can to prevent data going with them.

It seems that McLaren knew of Renault having this data from the way they immediately went to them, so this could be seen as a bit of a desperate ploy to shout "We're not the only ones, it happens".

I expect that they are leaking this information to keep people informed, it doesn't seem to be having the same exposure and attention from the FIA as the Ferrari complaint did, even though it does seem that this is a much more serious case.

Now, I only call it a serious case as the FIA deemed it reasonable to punish McLaren so heavily. Indeed, they have set a dangerous precidence as was commented on at the time, and I really hope it doesn't backfire!!

[jacobyte]

npope said:

why are there no hate threads for FIA and McLaren like there was for Ferrari when the spygate started?

That's an interesting point. Here is a couple of reasons:

1. A McLaren employee did not freely give the information to a Renault employee (à la Ferrari > McLaren). Rather, an employee left and took the restricted information with them. This is very different indeed.

2. You will note the the McLaren fans aren't mindlessly baying for Renault's blood in the same way that both the Ferrari team and its fans were.

The truth is that Renault should probably not be punished at all by the FIA, as true industrial espionage is a matter for the proper courts (c.f. Toyota). However, as the FIA has already set a precedent by its deplorable and catastrophic handling of the Ferrari/McLaren situation, it is likely that Renault will be punished. Probably for what the FIA is best at - "Bringing the sport into disrepute". But then Max will probably pull something out of his bag of tricks with typical aplomb.

[flemke]

jacobyte said:

npope said:

why are there no hate threads for FIA and McLaren like there was for Ferrari when the spygate started?

That's an interesting point. Here is a couple of reasons:

1. A McLaren employee did not freely give the information to a Renault employee (à la Ferrari > McLaren). Rather, an employee left and took the restricted information with them. This is very different indeed.

2. You will note the the McLaren fans aren't mindlessly baying for Renault's blood in the same way that both the Ferrari team and its fans were.

Indeed, it is probable that McLaren been aware for many months that their former employee had stolen a load of McLaren IP before they complained to the FIA about it.
One strongly suspects that McLaren had been willing to let the Renault matter rest, and they only protested at all because they themselves were in the process of being raped for a lesser allegation.

[toomuchbeer]

jacobyte said:

[1. A McLaren employee did not freely give the information to a Renault employee (à la Ferrari > McLaren). Rather, an employee left and took the restricted information with them. This is very different indeed.

I feel that this will be FIA's get out of jail free card. Deem it as not an issue to the FIA directly, and usher McLaren out of the door.

IMO I do think that Renault should face the same FIA hearing as McLaren did, and if found to be guilty that they had on their system, critical imformation on McLarens car's, whether used or not, that they are duly given exactly the same penalty. This could be done in two way's, they either give exactly the same panelty, or reduce McLarens penalty and match it to Renault.

What a very dangerous situation the FIA now find themselves in. I only hope and pray they are transparent in there dealing with it all. But going on previous experience, I fear not. F1 could self implode if they get it wrong.

[jules_s]

[quote]The Times branded McLaren's efforts a 'concerted attack' against the Flavio Briatore-led squad, with the information revealing that up to 18 employees had viewed the McLaren secrets, which were taken to Renault by suspended engineer Phil Mackereth, on 11 separate computers.
[/quote]

^^^From the original linked article..

So did he leave or was he suspended?

If eleven seperate computers were taken I would suggest mcLaren need a security review

[Ahonen]

jules_s said:

article said:

The Times branded McLaren's efforts a 'concerted attack' against the Flavio Briatore-led squad, with the information revealing that up to 18 employees had viewed the McLaren secrets, which were taken to Renault by suspended engineer Phil Mackereth, on 11 separate computers.

^^^From the original linked article..

So did he leave or was he suspended?

If eleven seperate computers were taken I would suggest mcLaren need a security review

I can't make out whether you're joking or not.

The article states that the Renault engineers viewed the documents on 11 different computers, meaning that they were widely distributed within Enstone. It doesn't say that 11 computers were taken.

Edited by Ahonen on Friday 23 November 14:11

[hostile17]

jacobyte said:

2. You will note the the McLaren fans aren't mindlessly baying for Renault's blood in the same way that both the Ferrari team and its fans were.

This is probably because most McLaren fans don't believe that any of Renault's 'blood' will be spilt by the FIA. Mosley and his cronies will find some way of weaselling out of punishing them, despite the precedent they themselves set with the $100m fine earlier in the year. One rule for McLaren, another for everyone else.

As a McLaren fan myself, I'm just resigned to the fact that the team will once again get the shaft from the FIA, and baying for anyone's blood is a waste of energy.

[D_Mike]

they could always charge McLaren with bringing the sport into disrepute for bringing this matter up with the FIA rather than a court...

For what it's worth, McLaren are doing this to say "it's not just us" and get back at the FIA... they don't want to hurt Renault but are using them against the FIA

[npope]

I am so pleased I started this topic, when will a McLaren fans see the bad side of the team, I am sure you all will find a way to blame another team for this let me guess Ferrari. I agree Renault are in the wrong but no more or less than McLaren but you still want to blame other teams. But I do think the biggest problem is the FIA, someone needs to re write the rules make it clear and then anyone breaks those rules kick them out (even ferrari) as i want F1 back RACING :-)

[flatout]

McLaren have known about this for some time " funny that it has been announced since the departure of alonso from the team.Renault should have a hearing and be fined as well, lets have some kind of continuity here!!

[Ahonen]

npope said:

I am so pleased I started this topic, when will a McLaren fans see the bad side of the team, I am sure you all will find a way to blame another team for this let me guess Ferrari.

You must be finding it rather annoying that no one has properly risen to the bait yet. The problem is that you laid your trap very poorly, without any effort to disguise your intentions. If you'd tried harder you might have seen a result, but it's too late now.

[hostile17]

npope said:

I am sure you all will find a way to blame another team for this let me guess Ferrari.

Actually, I don't think anyone in this thread has blamed Ferrari.

We can if you like, though?

[toomuchbeer]

npope said:

I am so pleased I started this topic, when will a McLaren fans see the bad side of the team, I am sure you all will find a way to blame another team for this let me guess Ferrari. I agree Renault are in the wrong but no more or less than McLaren but you still want to blame other teams. But I do think the biggest problem is the FIA, someone needs to re write the rules make it clear and then anyone breaks those rules kick them out (even ferrari) as i want F1 back RACING :-)

Having read the above posts, I don't see one that blames anyone else. It is you that mentions Ferrari.

What people are saying is that Renault should be treated in exactly the same way as McLaren were.

You need to stop smoking the funny stuff....