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thinfourth2

Original Poster:

30,377 posts

90 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
here and here

A couple of views on 4x4s by a guy who is living the green life and uses a bike to take the kids to school, grows his own food, raises his own livestock etc.





Extra points to the first person to rant without reading the articles first

RDE

4,357 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
Nuke him from orbit.


Have I won?


ETA: He seemed to be talking some sense and then I got distracted by an amusingly-shaped turnip.

Edited by RDE on Monday 10th December 14:11

MK4 Slowride

9,923 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
Well the blokes clearly an idiot if he thinks 1, there's such a thing a global warming. 2, if 4x4's actually play a big part in their dreamt up scheme. 3, I actually give a censored that he eats horse turds with goats cheese for breakfast.

wmg100

1,659 posts

100 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
4x4Man said:
The problem I have is with the way the green movement is increasingly hijacked by the envious, the hateful, the spiteful, the controlling, the fascist, the ignorant, the misguided and the mis-informed.
clap

dhutch

705 posts

83 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
Im personally am against 4*4 for the school run, for people who dont need them, and should just get a volvo or a audi estate or something.
- They do use an amount more fuel, espically as they often have a larger than average engine.
- And they also use more oil and service etc, for all the extra diffs and gearboxs. And you look like a bit of a cock.

However at the same point, he does have a point that if you actually do need a 4*4 then you should be penalised.
- I only directly know three people with 4*4, one of them has a 6tonne steamboat that he tows all over the place, inc steep small roads to marinas, launch and recovered etc, and the other two have them as farm vehicals as the guy in the essay does, going across unmade feilds in all weathers etc.

But yeah, largly, urrrm. Yeah, thing. And that....


Daniel
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MK4 Slowride

9,923 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
wmg100 said:
4x4Man said:
The problem I have is with the way the green movement is increasingly hijacked by the envious, the hateful, the spiteful, the controlling, the fascist, the ignorant, the misguided and the mis-informed.
clap
I couldn't get on the link so thought it was anti 4x4. Sorry

getmecoat

Marki

15,763 posts

156 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
MK4 Slowride said:
Well the blokes clearly an idiot if he thinks 1, there's such a thing a global warming.
Thats it close your eyes to it wink

kambites

41,065 posts

107 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
MK4 Slowride said:
Well the blokes clearly an idiot if he thinks 1, there's such a thing a global warming.
It's that kind of comment that makes people who deny global warming look like they're all closed minded idiots. Whether I believe in MMGW or not, and personally I'm undecided, that kind of attitude doesn't help anyone. biggrin

unless of course you were bring ironic in some way I don't understand, in which case I appologise wink

Edited by kambites on Monday 10th December 14:29

MK4 Slowride

9,923 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
Marki said:
MK4 Slowride said:
Well the blokes clearly an idiot if he thinks 1, there's such a thing a global warming.
Thats it close your eyes to it wink
paperbag

thinfourth2

Original Poster:

30,377 posts

90 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
MK4 Slowride said:
wmg100 said:
4x4Man said:
The problem I have is with the way the green movement is increasingly hijacked by the envious, the hateful, the spiteful, the controlling, the fascist, the ignorant, the misguided and the mis-informed.
clap
I couldn't get on the link so thought it was anti 4x4. Sorry

getmecoat
Yes you win the prize

but here is a section from his second article

nasty 4x4 man said:
I had to drive in to Aberdeen this morning to see the dentist but with the Defender’s fuel gauge a little on the low side I diverted into Inverurie to buy £25 of diesel.

As I was standing next to the Land Rover, mind in neutral apart from watching the gauge on the pump, I vaguely noticed a new-ish, five-door hatch pull in behind me.

Next thing I knew, a shrill, snivelling voice had interrupted my reverie.

“People like you should be taken off the road with your lethal killer machines. If I had my way, all ****** 4×4s would be banned.”

Eh, say what?

I turned my head to find a short, slightly dumpy woman of a certain age glaring at me from beside her hatchback. She had short hair, an ex-army camouflage jacket over a chunky sweater and jeans, and was wearing Doc Martins.

In other words, militant green vegan animal lover and probably a social worker to boot. I know, I’m jumping to conclusions but you had to be there.

The harangue continued.

“Your four-wheel drive is ****** lethal. You have no need for it. Powering around the roads, killing the wildlife and cats.

“You’re probably one of those ****** farmers who exploit animals, too. Look at it guzzling fuel. Do you know what it’s doing to the planet?”

And on and on. The gauge on the fuel pump finally showed £25, so I hung the hose up, put the fuel cap back on and then, unable to resist I’m afraid to say, finally let rip.

“Sounds like you’re desperate for a good shag, love.”

I know, completely inappropriate, but I’d had enough of the voice, the language and sentiments.

To my surprise, a huge outbreak of laughter came from the other side of the pumps where I now realised a builder’s van had been sitting with two blokes inside while another filled the van with diesel.

All three were shaking with laughter, while Queen Green was turning red with apoplexy.

Time to pay and be gone!

MK4 Slowride

9,923 posts

94 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
kambites said:
MK4 Slowride said:
Well the blokes clearly an idiot if he thinks 1, there's such a thing a global warming.
It's that kind of comment that makes people who deny global warming look like they're all closed minded idiots. Whether I believe in MMGW or not, and personally I'm undecided, that kind of attitude doesn't help anyone. biggrin

unless of course you were bring ironic in some way I don't understand, in which case I appologise wink

Edited by kambites on Monday 10th December 14:29
Beg for appology & I'll consider it. If you slap yourself your more in with a chance.

MilnerR

5,661 posts

144 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
dhutch said:
Im personally am against 4*4 for the school run, for people who dont need them, and should just get a volvo or a audi estate or something.
- They do use an amount more fuel, espically as they often have a larger than average engine.
- And they also use more oil and service etc, for all the extra diffs and gearboxs. And you look like a bit of a cock.

However at the same point, he does have a point that if you actually do need a 4*4 then you should be penalised.
- I only directly know three people with 4*4, one of them has a 6tonne steamboat that he tows all over the place, inc steep small roads to marinas, launch and recovered etc, and the other two have them as farm vehicals as the guy in the essay does, going across unmade feilds in all weathers etc.

But yeah, largly, urrrm. Yeah, thing. And that....


Daniel
Does that include cars like mine? wink

gopher

5,160 posts

145 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
dhutch said:
Im personally am against 4*4 for the school run, for people who dont need them, and should just get a volvo or a audi estate or something.
- They do use an amount more fuel, espically as they often have a larger than average engine.
- And they also use more oil and service etc, for all the extra diffs and gearboxs. And you look like a bit of a cock.

However at the same point, he does have a point that if you actually do need a 4*4 then you should be penalised.
- I only directly know three people with 4*4, one of them has a 6tonne steamboat that he tows all over the place, inc steep small roads to marinas, launch and recovered etc, and the other two have them as farm vehicals as the guy in the essay does, going across unmade feilds in all weathers etc.

But yeah, largly, urrrm. Yeah, thing. And that....


Daniel
What happened to freedom of choice?

So what if they use more fuel, oil, extra diffs and boxes? If someone is willing to spend the money why can't they? What if someone needs a 4 x 4 just to feed their ego? why shouldn't they?

In the same way as sports cars are unnecessary, people carriers for people with only a small dog are unnecessary, personal boats and planes are unnecessary.

I just think that it's not the business of anyone else what I do with my money (as long as it's within the law etc).

(no I don't have a 4x4)

Paul

Lord Benjamin

4,330 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
dhutch said:
And you look like a bit of a cock.

Daniel
And the first prize for the most sweeping statement of the day goes to...

Reading your profile, I assume that you include your Land Rover owning friends in your well informed post?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have intentionally mis-read 'region' in your profile, because no one could be that stupid (or could they?)

Timberwolf

4,718 posts

104 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
I think the green movement - as hijacked by various champagne socialists - have got to be absolutely flipping mental if they don't realise that stamping round in histrionics and blathering on about carbon arseprint this and anticapitalist that is only going to alienate people in the long run.

They've done more to remove the right to free speech and protest than anything the government could hope to do. Complain about anything where your protest could be viewed as even slightly left of centre, and it'll basically be hijacked by the awkward squad of professional rabble-rousers.

maxrider

2,481 posts

122 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
Lord Benjamin said:
dhutch said:
And you look like a bit of a cock.

Daniel
And the first prize for the most sweeping statement of the day goes to...

Reading your profile, I assume that you include your Land Rover owning friends in your well informed post?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have intentionally mis-read 'region' in your profile, because no one could be that stupid (or could they?)
The whole profile is an excellent advertisement for what universities will accept nowadays.

WTF is uncal?

Lord Benjamin

4,330 posts

101 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
maxrider said:
Lord Benjamin said:
dhutch said:
And you look like a bit of a cock.

Daniel
And the first prize for the most sweeping statement of the day goes to...

Reading your profile, I assume that you include your Land Rover owning friends in your well informed post?

I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you have intentionally mis-read 'region' in your profile, because no one could be that stupid (or could they?)
The whole profile is an excellent advertisement for what universities will accept nowadays.

WTF is uncal?
Daniel. Word of advice. Displaying your whole life via a personal web page may leave you open to a small degree of teasing.

Pictures of "your computers" aside, I would suggest that showing a jpeg of Kitchen Block 4, your room (worth double checking, but if I close my left eye one of those posters is definitely out of alignment with the rest wink) and your toilet ( "which is cleaned for you once a week" ) perhaps hints that you need to get out more.

I am normally more accomodating to my my fellow PH'rs, but I am having a bad day and feel like picking on some one for a change.


Edited by Lord Benjamin on Monday 10th December 15:06

RobM77

25,291 posts

120 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
gopher said:
dhutch said:
Im personally am against 4*4 for the school run, for people who dont need them, and should just get a volvo or a audi estate or something.
- They do use an amount more fuel, espically as they often have a larger than average engine.
- And they also use more oil and service etc, for all the extra diffs and gearboxs. And you look like a bit of a cock.

However at the same point, he does have a point that if you actually do need a 4*4 then you should be penalised.
- I only directly know three people with 4*4, one of them has a 6tonne steamboat that he tows all over the place, inc steep small roads to marinas, launch and recovered etc, and the other two have them as farm vehicals as the guy in the essay does, going across unmade feilds in all weathers etc.

But yeah, largly, urrrm. Yeah, thing. And that....


Daniel
What happened to freedom of choice?

So what if they use more fuel, oil, extra diffs and boxes? If someone is willing to spend the money why can't they? What if someone needs a 4 x 4 just to feed their ego? why shouldn't they?

In the same way as sports cars are unnecessary, people carriers for people with only a small dog are unnecessary, personal boats and planes are unnecessary.

I just think that it's not the business of anyone else what I do with my money (as long as it's within the law etc).

(no I don't have a 4x4)

Paul
I don't wish to start another huge thread regarding this, but that particular viewpoint is often raised, and there are so many misunderstandings.

At its base level, every car offers its owner the ability to get from A to B. With almost all cars, on top of this ability come extra things. Those extra things might be great fuel economy, space for your dog, or the ability to tow a trailer etc. Sports cars offer great responses, nimbleness, feedback and handling, usually at the expense of carrying capacity. However, all of the facets of a sports car can be used and enjoyed tangibly on the public road. They also offer good acceleration and speed (at the expense of fuel economy over a similar weight of car). Whether acceleration and speed are dangerous or not is getting into the debatable, so we'll stick to the facts. Now, what 'features' does a 4x4 like a Range Rover offer its owner? It primarily offers good ground clearance so you can straddle ruts on tracks and cross unulating rocky ground (been there, done that, it's great!). Secondarily, it offers four wheel drive to offer grip on slippery off road surfaces. These are wonderful facets that make off roaders perfect for certain people - a forester or gamekeeper's life would be very tricky and difficult without one. However, these facets have absolutely no use at all on the public road. In fact, these facets make an off roader compromised for use on the public road because a higher CofG and large wheel travel means less stability than if the same vehicle was lower, and the extra weight and friction of 4WD inevitably leads to lower mpg than if the car was 2WD. Additionally, concentrating the mass and strength of a vehicle higher up means that if it hits something like a Focus or a Fiesta they will be carnage. Those are facts, whether you're a greeney or not. I'm sure we all agree on everything there.

Freedom of choice must be respected, but anyone owning an off roader purely for road use must be ready to be laughed at or puzzled over, much like someone who chooses a Chihuahua as a guard dog, or a bench drill as a bottle opener. Of course, we're all free to do these things, but don't expect people to understand!

JagLover

18,287 posts

121 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
RobM77 said:
Freedom of choice must be respected, but anyone owning an off roader purely for road use must be ready to be laughed at or puzzled over, much like someone who chooses a Chihuahua as a guard dog, or a bench drill as a bottle opener. Of course, we're all free to do these things, but don't expect people to understand!
Off roaders are also an excellent vehicle for town driving due to the number of speed humps and poorly maintained surfaces.


dhutch

705 posts

83 months

[news] 
Monday 10th December 2007 quote quote all
gopher said:
In the same way as sports cars are unnecessary, people carriers for people with only a small dog are unnecessary, personal boats and planes are unnecessary.
Yeah, well im not saying it should be the law, just exersizing my mind on the issue.
- I agree that power sports cars, mpvs for two people, and personal planes are as mad. (personal planes, proberbly worse) And i would say the same about them really.
- If someone is driving a v8 audi as a daily driver clocking up 20K of motorway miles, then yes, i would put them in the same boat, as a bit of cock. Not saying there unpleasent people, just that i personaly think thats a god dam waste, for very little come back.

However at the same time, there is room for a bit of fun to, i think, i hope so anyway.
- As pointed out, a number of my freinds have series landrovers, and a 2a doesnt do much more than 12 to the gallon. But they only do about twelve! Most of them have a second car (high millage 1.1 yaris, ex-scrap metro, and the mums mk2 fiesta) which they use for work and long journeys, driving the landys about once every month or so on organised trailing/greenlaning events (wait for can of worms to open re:greenlaning).

But there we go. I dont know.
- We're not a perfect family eather, my dad has a 2l deisal a4 which is only fairly good, and my mum drives the 806 (also a 2l deisal) to work on her own each day. Although we are actually shortly about to get a small hatchback for my sister to learn in, and my mum to take to work so as not to the put the miles on the 806.
- We also have a coal fired steam narrowboat, which you could argue isnt the most efficient thing in the world, espcially as we dont actaully need to go anywhere in it, its just all for fun. (we use her about 20days a year, burning around 1.5tonnes, coving 400lockmiles odd.)

Im glad you had fun rummaging though my website as well, 'swhat its there for after all, although i dont spend much time on it really.
- I also appologise for my spelling too which can get fairly awfull, i dont get time to run it though a checker always, particaualy at work where i dont have anything intergated into my browser to help me. As someone who is heavly dyslexic and asbergers, my spelling is one of the things ive had to battle with all my life, but heyhoo, i do my best most of the time and if thats not good enough im not overly arsed.

Daniel

Edited by dhutch on Monday 10th December 15:39

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