A London road has 102 CCTV cameras in 2 miles
Discussion
Related to my other posts this morning, this dates back to July 2007. It's worth noting the comment at the end from Ian Redhead, DCC in Hampshire.
Daily Telegraph said:
A crime-ridden high street in north London has been branded the most spied-upon road in Britain, after it emerged that it is watched over by more than 100 closed circuit television cameras.
In one 650-yard section of Holloway Road, that runs from Archway to Highbury Corner, there are 29 cameras mounted on shops and lampposts, a church and a courtroom.
There are 102 CCTV cameras monitoring crime on the two-mile road, as well as a further seven checking for speeding cars and vehicles straying into bus lanes.
Civil liberties groups are alarmed by the number of opportunities for the state to watch people in Holloway Road, particularly as they claim surveillance cameras do not always help to reduce crime.
Mark Dziecielewski, of Watching Them Watching Us, said: "Politicians like cameras because they are seen to be doing something but, just like you see birds perched on scarecrows, the hoodies and dealers come back once the novelty has worn off.
"Having so many cameras in one place actually makes police investigations harder because they have to divert so much manpower into checking footage from every single camera."
A number of murders and other serious crimes have taken place in and around Holloway Road despite its dozens of CCTV cameras. Last month, 14-year-old Martin Dinnegan was knifed to death outside a chip shop yards from Holloway Road, while two years ago Richard Whelan was fatally stabbed as he sat on the top deck of a bus travelling along the road.
At the time, police disclosed there had been 430 offences committed over six months on Holloway Road, including 29 serious assaults, 15 robberies and 32 burglaries.
In 2004, 13-year-old Hakeem Johnston stabbed Noor Kasimi to death in a Holloway Road pizza shop where he worked, after being refused a £1 special offer. The road is also plagued by illegal cigarette sellers, while a Colombian cafe raided by police in 2003 was said to be central to a £200 million cocaine-smuggling cartel.
But some residents and shopkeepers along the road feel reassured by the presence of the CCTV cameras. Gillian Adam, an art dealer, said: "This can be a dangerous area, especially at night, so I think having so many cameras is a small price to pay."
Britain has 4.2 million CCTV cameras, one for every 14 people, more than in the rest of Europe put together.
In May Ian Redhead, the deputy chief constable of Hampshire, said: "Are we really moving towards an Orwellian situation where cameras are at every street corner? I really don't think that's the kind of country that I want to live in."
StreakyIn one 650-yard section of Holloway Road, that runs from Archway to Highbury Corner, there are 29 cameras mounted on shops and lampposts, a church and a courtroom.
There are 102 CCTV cameras monitoring crime on the two-mile road, as well as a further seven checking for speeding cars and vehicles straying into bus lanes.
Civil liberties groups are alarmed by the number of opportunities for the state to watch people in Holloway Road, particularly as they claim surveillance cameras do not always help to reduce crime.
Mark Dziecielewski, of Watching Them Watching Us, said: "Politicians like cameras because they are seen to be doing something but, just like you see birds perched on scarecrows, the hoodies and dealers come back once the novelty has worn off.
"Having so many cameras in one place actually makes police investigations harder because they have to divert so much manpower into checking footage from every single camera."
A number of murders and other serious crimes have taken place in and around Holloway Road despite its dozens of CCTV cameras. Last month, 14-year-old Martin Dinnegan was knifed to death outside a chip shop yards from Holloway Road, while two years ago Richard Whelan was fatally stabbed as he sat on the top deck of a bus travelling along the road.
At the time, police disclosed there had been 430 offences committed over six months on Holloway Road, including 29 serious assaults, 15 robberies and 32 burglaries.
In 2004, 13-year-old Hakeem Johnston stabbed Noor Kasimi to death in a Holloway Road pizza shop where he worked, after being refused a £1 special offer. The road is also plagued by illegal cigarette sellers, while a Colombian cafe raided by police in 2003 was said to be central to a £200 million cocaine-smuggling cartel.
But some residents and shopkeepers along the road feel reassured by the presence of the CCTV cameras. Gillian Adam, an art dealer, said: "This can be a dangerous area, especially at night, so I think having so many cameras is a small price to pay."
Britain has 4.2 million CCTV cameras, one for every 14 people, more than in the rest of Europe put together.
In May Ian Redhead, the deputy chief constable of Hampshire, said: "Are we really moving towards an Orwellian situation where cameras are at every street corner? I really don't think that's the kind of country that I want to live in."
Might be a complete barmy idea, but would CCTVs cameras ever be opened to the public domain or even to a large private corporation to use for "research purposes".
It just freaks me out that personal data and privacy can be leaked out so easily in this day and age. I just dread the day I walk into a shop to buy a pair of trousers then recieving 100 emails, junk postal mails and texts about offers on trousers at various shops.
It just freaks me out that personal data and privacy can be leaked out so easily in this day and age. I just dread the day I walk into a shop to buy a pair of trousers then recieving 100 emails, junk postal mails and texts about offers on trousers at various shops.
streaky said:
Britain has 4.2 million CCTV cameras, one for every 14 people, more than in the rest of Europe put together.
I've never heard a source for this statistic, I recall tracing it to a report a while back but the report never cited it's calculations. I think the figure is flawed by double-counting or some other incorrect assumption (eg. asking manufacturers how many cameras they have ever sold in the UK).An article in a paper a while back counted the number of cameras near Orwell's old house:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-2339108...
the article said:
Orwell's view of the tree-filled gardens outside the flat is under 24-hour surveillance from two cameras perched on traffic lights.
WTF? That's radar for the lights themselves you fool!Edited by g_attrill on Tuesday 18th December 13:42
How would I stop the rot.....
Step 1 Introduction of some form of national service for youngsters, not neccerssarily the army, but national service in either local council projects homes, NHS, forced labour whatever. Lets get kids of the street, reducing bored and opportunities for crime.
Step 2 return of Corporal punishment.
Step 3 Schools and Teachers given the right and community support to properly discipline problem students. And when a student is removed for bad behaviour they stay removed not re-instated by some good for nothing Educational numpty.
Step 4 reduction in legislation making more members of the public criminals, I know this sounds daft, but part of this orwelian departure is that everything now seams to be a criminal offence of some sort that years ago could have been easily and deftly dealt with via a swift clip round the ear.
Step 5 Overhaul of the tax credit, benefits system to act as a catch net for those in desperate need, not as a sponge for the workshy, baby bomber chav scum to sponge of becasue they can't be arsed to get off their backsides and do any number of paid jobs that are available. Part of this step would make it illeagal for people on the dole /scrounge to apply for loans or credit, thus making proper work far more financially attractive.
Step 6 Proper sentences for proper crimes with the CPS ensuring secure and decent convictions. Prisons to be places of reform not revolving door holiday camps.
Step 7 more well trained bobbies on the beat, irrespective of colour, replacing these PCS officers. And given the ability to do the job specific to an area not some articfical target driven nonsense that see's them filling out forms 90% of their day, lets cut the red tape.
Step 8 Governments to stop pandering to loud mouthed minorities and to start listening to the meak and mild majority of this country.
Step 9. Self defence laws to be made more transparent and less complex. Crims need to have no defence against a victim if they attempt to or perpertrate a crime against property or body.
Just a few start with all IMHO, add more if you feel like it.
These are obviously not thought out in the finest detail could do with a bit work maybe, and I guess not everybody will agree with them.
Step 1 Introduction of some form of national service for youngsters, not neccerssarily the army, but national service in either local council projects homes, NHS, forced labour whatever. Lets get kids of the street, reducing bored and opportunities for crime.
Step 2 return of Corporal punishment.
Step 3 Schools and Teachers given the right and community support to properly discipline problem students. And when a student is removed for bad behaviour they stay removed not re-instated by some good for nothing Educational numpty.
Step 4 reduction in legislation making more members of the public criminals, I know this sounds daft, but part of this orwelian departure is that everything now seams to be a criminal offence of some sort that years ago could have been easily and deftly dealt with via a swift clip round the ear.
Step 5 Overhaul of the tax credit, benefits system to act as a catch net for those in desperate need, not as a sponge for the workshy, baby bomber chav scum to sponge of becasue they can't be arsed to get off their backsides and do any number of paid jobs that are available. Part of this step would make it illeagal for people on the dole /scrounge to apply for loans or credit, thus making proper work far more financially attractive.
Step 6 Proper sentences for proper crimes with the CPS ensuring secure and decent convictions. Prisons to be places of reform not revolving door holiday camps.
Step 7 more well trained bobbies on the beat, irrespective of colour, replacing these PCS officers. And given the ability to do the job specific to an area not some articfical target driven nonsense that see's them filling out forms 90% of their day, lets cut the red tape.
Step 8 Governments to stop pandering to loud mouthed minorities and to start listening to the meak and mild majority of this country.
Step 9. Self defence laws to be made more transparent and less complex. Crims need to have no defence against a victim if they attempt to or perpertrate a crime against property or body.
Just a few start with all IMHO, add more if you feel like it.
These are obviously not thought out in the finest detail could do with a bit work maybe, and I guess not everybody will agree with them.
Parrot of Doom said:
Jasandjules said:
We have more CCTV yet plenty of crime still..
So they are not the answer.
So what is? Over to you.
Men and women wearing uniforms and holding truncheons. With the power to detain people.So they are not the answer.
So what is? Over to you.
I wonder what they're called.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 18th December 17:56
The population of the UK has been increasing for 170 years and people are living longer, and we no longer have the death sentance, back in the Victorian era I doubt if paperwork and Targets were of that much concern, drugs certainly weren't on the agenda, speed cameras hadn't been invented and the car was yet to be born, crime against and amongst the poor was rife and unreported and there was minimum journalist coverage.....So your point is??
CCTV is seen as a modern tactic to modern levels of reported modern crime (even accepting over reporting sensationlist press) and this example proves it fails.
edited because I can't spell.
CCTV is seen as a modern tactic to modern levels of reported modern crime (even accepting over reporting sensationlist press) and this example proves it fails.
edited because I can't spell.
Edited by tvrslag on Tuesday 18th December 20:10
vonhosen said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Jasandjules said:
We have more CCTV yet plenty of crime still..
So they are not the answer.
So what is? Over to you.
Men and women wearing uniforms and holding truncheons. With the power to detain people.So they are not the answer.
So what is? Over to you.
I wonder what they're called.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 18th December 17:56
tvrslag said:
How would I stop the rot.....
Step 1 Introduction of some form of national service for youngsters, not neccerssarily the army, but national service in either local council projects homes, NHS, forced labour whatever. Lets get kids of the street, reducing bored and opportunities for crime.
Step 2 return of Corporal punishment.
Step 3 Schools and Teachers given the right and community support to properly discipline problem students. And when a student is removed for bad behaviour they stay removed not re-instated by some good for nothing Educational numpty.
Step 4 reduction in legislation making more members of the public criminals, I know this sounds daft, but part of this orwelian departure is that everything now seams to be a criminal offence of some sort that years ago could have been easily and deftly dealt with via a swift clip round the ear.
Step 5 Overhaul of the tax credit, benefits system to act as a catch net for those in desperate need, not as a sponge for the workshy, baby bomber chav scum to sponge of becasue they can't be arsed to get off their backsides and do any number of paid jobs that are available. Part of this step would make it illeagal for people on the dole /scrounge to apply for loans or credit, thus making proper work far more financially attractive.
Step 6 Proper sentences for proper crimes with the CPS ensuring secure and decent convictions. Prisons to be places of reform not revolving door holiday camps.
Step 7 more well trained bobbies on the beat, irrespective of colour, replacing these PCS officers. And given the ability to do the job specific to an area not some articfical target driven nonsense that see's them filling out forms 90% of their day, lets cut the red tape.
Step 8 Governments to stop pandering to loud mouthed minorities and to start listening to the meak and mild majority of this country.
Step 9. Self defence laws to be made more transparent and less complex. Crims need to have no defence against a victim if they attempt to or perpertrate a crime against property or body.
Just a few start with all IMHO, add more if you feel like it.
These are obviously not thought out in the finest detail could do with a bit work maybe, and I guess not everybody will agree with them.
Couldn't agree more with your suggestions. Unfortunately there is no political will to undertake these actions. Too much like hard work.Step 1 Introduction of some form of national service for youngsters, not neccerssarily the army, but national service in either local council projects homes, NHS, forced labour whatever. Lets get kids of the street, reducing bored and opportunities for crime.
Step 2 return of Corporal punishment.
Step 3 Schools and Teachers given the right and community support to properly discipline problem students. And when a student is removed for bad behaviour they stay removed not re-instated by some good for nothing Educational numpty.
Step 4 reduction in legislation making more members of the public criminals, I know this sounds daft, but part of this orwelian departure is that everything now seams to be a criminal offence of some sort that years ago could have been easily and deftly dealt with via a swift clip round the ear.
Step 5 Overhaul of the tax credit, benefits system to act as a catch net for those in desperate need, not as a sponge for the workshy, baby bomber chav scum to sponge of becasue they can't be arsed to get off their backsides and do any number of paid jobs that are available. Part of this step would make it illeagal for people on the dole /scrounge to apply for loans or credit, thus making proper work far more financially attractive.
Step 6 Proper sentences for proper crimes with the CPS ensuring secure and decent convictions. Prisons to be places of reform not revolving door holiday camps.
Step 7 more well trained bobbies on the beat, irrespective of colour, replacing these PCS officers. And given the ability to do the job specific to an area not some articfical target driven nonsense that see's them filling out forms 90% of their day, lets cut the red tape.
Step 8 Governments to stop pandering to loud mouthed minorities and to start listening to the meak and mild majority of this country.
Step 9. Self defence laws to be made more transparent and less complex. Crims need to have no defence against a victim if they attempt to or perpertrate a crime against property or body.
Just a few start with all IMHO, add more if you feel like it.
These are obviously not thought out in the finest detail could do with a bit work maybe, and I guess not everybody will agree with them.
As an aside and in realtion to STEP FIVE, I work in the delivery office for the Royal Mail and recently had a fit young man call complaining that he hadn't received his Giro.After informing him that we always deliver everything that comes into the office that morning and so it wouldn't have been here, I pointed out that if he actually got a job(plenty available in our area) he wouldn't have to wait for his handouts in the Christmas post!! Needless to say he wasn't best pleased with my remark!!!
David UK
Your absolutly correct, in days gone by being on the dole was seen as a stigma, you were a social outcast, unwanted, unemployable, peoples pride more than anything would drive them to take a job any job to put bread on the table and shoes on Kids feet. The Governments attempt to drag the poorest families out of poverty has failed and just created a large unwashed, lazy work shy, scrounging lower class who has no pride, no shame and lacks any incentive to get off their arses and in turn is breeding a new class of child/teenager who has no modern role model other than those mentioned before, has no fear of the police, or of any authority in any form and sees gang life, the knife culture and preying on the law abiding majority as their meal ticket, Meanwhile the poor get poorer, failed by ill conceived and poorly introduced family tax credit systems, and low wages.
Your absolutly correct, in days gone by being on the dole was seen as a stigma, you were a social outcast, unwanted, unemployable, peoples pride more than anything would drive them to take a job any job to put bread on the table and shoes on Kids feet. The Governments attempt to drag the poorest families out of poverty has failed and just created a large unwashed, lazy work shy, scrounging lower class who has no pride, no shame and lacks any incentive to get off their arses and in turn is breeding a new class of child/teenager who has no modern role model other than those mentioned before, has no fear of the police, or of any authority in any form and sees gang life, the knife culture and preying on the law abiding majority as their meal ticket, Meanwhile the poor get poorer, failed by ill conceived and poorly introduced family tax credit systems, and low wages.
tvrslag said:
David UK
Your absolutly correct, in days gone by being on the dole was seen as a stigma, you were a social outcast, unwanted, unemployable, peoples pride more than anything would drive them to take a job any job to put bread on the table and shoes on Kids feet. The Governments attempt to drag the poorest families out of poverty has failed and just created a large unwashed, lazy work shy, scrounging lower class who has no pride, no shame and lacks any incentive to get off their arses and in turn is breeding a new class of child/teenager who has no modern role model other than those mentioned before, has no fear of the police, or of any authority in any form and sees gang life, the knife culture and preying on the law abiding majority as their meal ticket, Meanwhile the poor get poorer, failed by ill conceived and poorly introduced family tax credit systems, and low wages.
I agree entirely, but I won't allow some scumbag to give me 'attitude' without added my tuppen'th worth which will invariably be rather cutting. Your absolutly correct, in days gone by being on the dole was seen as a stigma, you were a social outcast, unwanted, unemployable, peoples pride more than anything would drive them to take a job any job to put bread on the table and shoes on Kids feet. The Governments attempt to drag the poorest families out of poverty has failed and just created a large unwashed, lazy work shy, scrounging lower class who has no pride, no shame and lacks any incentive to get off their arses and in turn is breeding a new class of child/teenager who has no modern role model other than those mentioned before, has no fear of the police, or of any authority in any form and sees gang life, the knife culture and preying on the law abiding majority as their meal ticket, Meanwhile the poor get poorer, failed by ill conceived and poorly introduced family tax credit systems, and low wages.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff