Car traders,minunimum leagal guarantee period
Discussion
Hello
I was wondering if anyone can help me,i'm considering buying a car off a small business motor trader working from home,i have no reason whatsoever to belive the car is dodgy in any way,but what is the consumer law regarding minimum free guarantee/warranty on the car?say if the engine gives up the ghost,i know it's not going to be a year like goods from shops,but is it more like a month?its the first time i have bought one this way,all the other cars have been bought privately.
I was wondering if anyone can help me,i'm considering buying a car off a small business motor trader working from home,i have no reason whatsoever to belive the car is dodgy in any way,but what is the consumer law regarding minimum free guarantee/warranty on the car?say if the engine gives up the ghost,i know it's not going to be a year like goods from shops,but is it more like a month?its the first time i have bought one this way,all the other cars have been bought privately.
Thanks,i'll mention this to him tonight and see the expression on his face,as he has put this in the advert:
Warranties are available as an optional extra. If you would like a warranty with the vehicle we are happy to provide this at a very competitive price. Our warranties are under written by a major insurer and enable you to claim for your vehicle to be repaired if something should go wrong at your choice of garage. Please ask if you would like to know more as our warranties can be tailored to your requirements and price range. Warrantys from 3, 6, 12, 24 and 36 months.
I assume thats insuring for every little niggly thing that can go wrong,after all it is a 7 year old car,i do not expect everything to be perfect,as long as it does its job i'll be happy.
Warranties are available as an optional extra. If you would like a warranty with the vehicle we are happy to provide this at a very competitive price. Our warranties are under written by a major insurer and enable you to claim for your vehicle to be repaired if something should go wrong at your choice of garage. Please ask if you would like to know more as our warranties can be tailored to your requirements and price range. Warrantys from 3, 6, 12, 24 and 36 months.
I assume thats insuring for every little niggly thing that can go wrong,after all it is a 7 year old car,i do not expect everything to be perfect,as long as it does its job i'll be happy.
selwonk said:
Where does it say six months?When I was in the trade I always understood it to be three months statutory rights. In fact when an additional warranty was taken out, for say 12 months, the extended bit was actually only for nine months, to run after the dealers responsibilities had expired. And if the extended warranty didn't cover a fault that occurs within the 1st three months, the dealer couldn't point to the terms & conditions in the back of the extended warranty document and say it wasn't covered. EG, if the battery packs up within three months, and batteries are excluded from the extended warranty, the dealer has to put it right.
The legislation as I understand it now states that the onus is on the trader to show that any fault that arises in the first six months was not present at the time of sale or it's his responsibility to fix.
So if the cam belt goes after five months, and the service schedule recommends the changing of the cambelt after the sale time, then the dealer can prove that the cambelt was sold in satisfactory condition, as the car had been driven for five months and he can point to the service schedule and point out that the car had not been maintained as it should have been.
There's a lot of areas in between that are rather greyer as the law also makes mention of the fact that a buyer cannot expect second hand goods to be in the same condition as new, IIRC.
TBH, with modern cars, if its running ok on the test drive and you've done some research on the weak points of that model and checked that it's not sufferrign form any of them then I wouldn't bother with warranties.
So if the cam belt goes after five months, and the service schedule recommends the changing of the cambelt after the sale time, then the dealer can prove that the cambelt was sold in satisfactory condition, as the car had been driven for five months and he can point to the service schedule and point out that the car had not been maintained as it should have been.
There's a lot of areas in between that are rather greyer as the law also makes mention of the fact that a buyer cannot expect second hand goods to be in the same condition as new, IIRC.
TBH, with modern cars, if its running ok on the test drive and you've done some research on the weak points of that model and checked that it's not sufferrign form any of them then I wouldn't bother with warranties.
Hi 
To the original poster...how long is the warranty...
The answer is ZERO....
Unless he specifically specifies you get one (with a warranty book - signed and stamped)
Consumer rights are different and are appallingly difficult to enforce against a "home dealer" like him....
So assume NO warranty and NO rights at all when you are haggling over the price...
The above is from long experience looking at cars for customers and inspecting them for prospective buyers...
One other tip...unless you see WRITTEN evidence of mileage (like EVERY MOT) then assume the mileage is INCORRECT and add a figure 1 to front of mileage figure....example ..dealer "says" mileage = 47.000 but no proof....judge price on 147.000 miles....
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
All the best Brett
To the original poster...how long is the warranty...
The answer is ZERO....
Unless he specifically specifies you get one (with a warranty book - signed and stamped)
Consumer rights are different and are appallingly difficult to enforce against a "home dealer" like him....
So assume NO warranty and NO rights at all when you are haggling over the price...
The above is from long experience looking at cars for customers and inspecting them for prospective buyers...
One other tip...unless you see WRITTEN evidence of mileage (like EVERY MOT) then assume the mileage is INCORRECT and add a figure 1 to front of mileage figure....example ..dealer "says" mileage = 47.000 but no proof....judge price on 147.000 miles....
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
All the best Brett
Brett928S2 said:
Hi
To the original poster...how long is the warranty...
The answer is ZERO....
Unless he specifically specifies you get one (with a warranty book - signed and stamped)
Consumer rights are different and are appallingly difficult to enforce against a "home dealer" like him....
So assume NO warranty and NO rights at all when you are haggling over the price...
The above is from long experience looking at cars for customers and inspecting them for prospective buyers...
Uh, if he is acting in the course of business then there will be a statutory warranty as above. Make sure you have something (such as his advert) which indicates Trader though.To the original poster...how long is the warranty...
The answer is ZERO....
Unless he specifically specifies you get one (with a warranty book - signed and stamped)
Consumer rights are different and are appallingly difficult to enforce against a "home dealer" like him....
So assume NO warranty and NO rights at all when you are haggling over the price...
The above is from long experience looking at cars for customers and inspecting them for prospective buyers...
And if he is working from home, no doubt he has informed the revenue and his council and of course his mortgage providers.
Brett928S2 said:
Hi
To the original poster...how long is the warranty...
The answer is ZERO....
Unless he specifically specifies you get one (with a warranty book - signed and stamped)
Consumer rights are different and are appallingly difficult to enforce against a "home dealer" like him....
So assume NO warranty and NO rights at all when you are haggling over the price...
The above is from long experience looking at cars for customers and inspecting them for prospective buyers...
One other tip...unless you see WRITTEN evidence of mileage (like EVERY MOT) then assume the mileage is INCORRECT and add a figure 1 to front of mileage figure....example ..dealer "says" mileage = 47.000 but no proof....judge price on 147.000 miles....
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
All the best Brett
I'm afraid you are wrong, a "home" trader has the same legal responsibilities as a main dealer in terms of warranty.To the original poster...how long is the warranty...
The answer is ZERO....
Unless he specifically specifies you get one (with a warranty book - signed and stamped)
Consumer rights are different and are appallingly difficult to enforce against a "home dealer" like him....
So assume NO warranty and NO rights at all when you are haggling over the price...
The above is from long experience looking at cars for customers and inspecting them for prospective buyers...
One other tip...unless you see WRITTEN evidence of mileage (like EVERY MOT) then assume the mileage is INCORRECT and add a figure 1 to front of mileage figure....example ..dealer "says" mileage = 47.000 but no proof....judge price on 147.000 miles....
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
All the best Brett
As for your other sweeping statement, please don't. There are a lot of very honest car dealers, small or large who would have major issues with what you have said.
Thanks for the replies chaps.
I have took the plunge and bought the car,i have printed advert and he also gave me a receipt with his company name on it,the small print did say sold as seen basically.so,i guess it's a gamble on my part.
so,unless somthing major like the engine falling out happens!!there is no come back on ther dealer.
anyway all being well i should have a couple of years hassle free motoring
I have took the plunge and bought the car,i have printed advert and he also gave me a receipt with his company name on it,the small print did say sold as seen basically.so,i guess it's a gamble on my part.
so,unless somthing major like the engine falling out happens!!there is no come back on ther dealer.
anyway all being well i should have a couple of years hassle free motoring
chrisgtx said:
Thanks for the replies chaps.
I have took the plunge and bought the car,i have printed advert and he also gave me a receipt with his company name on it,the small print did say sold as seen basically.so,i guess it's a gamble on my part.
so,unless somthing major like the engine falling out happens!!there is no come back on ther dealer.
anyway all being well i should have a couple of years hassle free motoring
NO such thing as sold as seen if he is a trader!!I have took the plunge and bought the car,i have printed advert and he also gave me a receipt with his company name on it,the small print did say sold as seen basically.so,i guess it's a gamble on my part.
so,unless somthing major like the engine falling out happens!!there is no come back on ther dealer.
anyway all being well i should have a couple of years hassle free motoring
Does NOT matter what invoive states, you still get 6 month warranty. Only exception is when a trader sells to another trader.
CommanderJameson said:
Brett928S2 said:
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
Source please.Experience....
If you don't believe me...go to any car dealers forecourt and look and see mileages and notice how many are between 30,000 and 40,000 miles....
Coincidence...lol...I think not....
All the best Brett
Brett928S2 said:
CommanderJameson said:
Brett928S2 said:
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
Source please.Experience....
If you don't believe me...go to any car dealers forecourt and look and see mileages and notice how many are between 30,000 and 40,000 miles....
Coincidence...lol...I think not....
All the best Brett
There are a lot of clocked cars out there, and it's not just down to dishonest dealers. Quite often it is due to a service repair/replacement, often documented in the service book (if its there). Also, MOP can clock the car themselves before swopping it in with the dealer, the dealer buys in good faith, the MOP signs all the documents to verify, the dealer sells on, the discrepancy gets discovered, the dealer gets rogered, the person who clocked the car gets away Scott free.
If you buy a late used car from a dealer, possibly one they sold new and have taken back in against another new one, the mileage is probably going to be correct. Otherwise, who knows? the dealer has no more idea than you have, unless they've done the clocking, which is very doubtfull at big shiny main dealer level. I would imagine a car at 3-10 years old on a non-fran pitch is going to be the danger area.
If you buy a late used car from a dealer, possibly one they sold new and have taken back in against another new one, the mileage is probably going to be correct. Otherwise, who knows? the dealer has no more idea than you have, unless they've done the clocking, which is very doubtfull at big shiny main dealer level. I would imagine a car at 3-10 years old on a non-fran pitch is going to be the danger area.
Balmoral Green said:
selwonk said:
Where does it say six months?Part 5 a
1) This section applies if -
(a) the buyer deals as consumer or, in Scotland, there is a consumer contract in which the buyer is a consumer, and
(b) the goods do not conform to the contract of sale at the time of delivery.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) above goods which do not conform to the contract of sale at any time within the period of six months starting with the date on which the goods were delivered to the buyer must be taken not to have so conformed at that date.
dvd
Taken from here:
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem...
It also mentions the 6 month period. After 6 months you can still persue the dealer but the onus is on you to proove the car was faulty at the time of sale. There is no set length of time after which you cannot claim the car was faulty at sale. It just gets hard to proove.
[i]You should bear in mind that the law only allows consumers a short time to reject goods before, in the legal sense, they have ‘accepted’ them. This means that you have had the goods long enough to establish that they are satisfactory or that you have told the trader that you have accepted them. Only a court would be able to make a decision on this point but would take all relevant factors into account.
If the fault was present when you bought the car, you do have other remedies, even if you have left it too late to get a refund. You are entitled to seek a repair or replacement. These have to be carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. If replacement or repair is not possible, then the law allows for the options of full or partial refund. Each case would be judged on its own merits.
The onus is normally on you rather than the trader to prove a claim, i.e. that the car is defective in some way. However, the law now states that if you are claiming replacement, repair, full or partial refund within the first six months of ownership, the onus is on the trader to prove that the goods were acceptable when they were sold. This is called the ‘reversed burden of proof’.[/i]
http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem...
It also mentions the 6 month period. After 6 months you can still persue the dealer but the onus is on you to proove the car was faulty at the time of sale. There is no set length of time after which you cannot claim the car was faulty at sale. It just gets hard to proove.
[i]You should bear in mind that the law only allows consumers a short time to reject goods before, in the legal sense, they have ‘accepted’ them. This means that you have had the goods long enough to establish that they are satisfactory or that you have told the trader that you have accepted them. Only a court would be able to make a decision on this point but would take all relevant factors into account.
If the fault was present when you bought the car, you do have other remedies, even if you have left it too late to get a refund. You are entitled to seek a repair or replacement. These have to be carried out within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to you. If replacement or repair is not possible, then the law allows for the options of full or partial refund. Each case would be judged on its own merits.
The onus is normally on you rather than the trader to prove a claim, i.e. that the car is defective in some way. However, the law now states that if you are claiming replacement, repair, full or partial refund within the first six months of ownership, the onus is on the trader to prove that the goods were acceptable when they were sold. This is called the ‘reversed burden of proof’.[/i]
Brett928S2 said:
CommanderJameson said:
Brett928S2 said:
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
Source please.Experience....
If you don't believe me...go to any car dealers forecourt and look and see mileages and notice how many are between 30,000 and 40,000 miles....
Coincidence...lol...I think not....
All the best Brett
CommanderJameson said:
Brett928S2 said:
CommanderJameson said:
Brett928S2 said:
On average around 30% of ALL cars are clocked....and that includes cars on main dealers forecourts....
Source please.Experience....
If you don't believe me...go to any car dealers forecourt and look and see mileages and notice how many are between 30,000 and 40,000 miles....
Coincidence...lol...I think not....
All the best Brett
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