M5 crash kills 5
Discussion
Read this http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/26/airstrip.car.cras... on another forum. It is rumoured the kid driving his dads M5 was the poster AmericanM5 on this thread http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=... Posters had warned him about his attitude towards speed.
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Sunday 27th January 08:11
Seatbelts - did they not look at the pictures of the wreck? I've never seen worse and I saw some spectacular messes in the middle-east.
It's very sad for the families involved but it adds weight to what most of us have been saying on this forum for a while that young kids should not be allowed to drive cars with 200bhp let alone one with 500bhp!
With John Travolta living in that community I can't get Tom Cruise's quote out of my mind where he talks about Scientologists 'knowing' they are the only ones who can help with they go past an accident. Obviously, Mr Travolta was out for the evening.....
It's very sad for the families involved but it adds weight to what most of us have been saying on this forum for a while that young kids should not be allowed to drive cars with 200bhp let alone one with 500bhp!
With John Travolta living in that community I can't get Tom Cruise's quote out of my mind where he talks about Scientologists 'knowing' they are the only ones who can help with they go past an accident. Obviously, Mr Travolta was out for the evening.....
Not good at all, there was a similar case round here late last year - 17 y.o. put his WRX into a tree near Wanaka, killing a couple of passengers.
They may have pretty idiot-proof handling but still dish up the corners fast, and so many young drivers just don't have the self-restraint to deal with that.
They may have pretty idiot-proof handling but still dish up the corners fast, and so many young drivers just don't have the self-restraint to deal with that.
Yep - the wizardtrickery electrogubbins are great but they don't change the laws of physics. Looking at the evidence, he must have started braking about a half-mile too late.
My old man was free with loaning me his 4.1 l Falcon when I was 15/16, I think because his father did the same with him in the '40s. I scared myself once, badly, by spinning out on the motorway at 160+ and was unbelievably lucky to come out with nothing more than scuffed sidewalls on the tyres. It was a cheap lesson and every time I see one of these tragic accidents I'm reminded dumb luck was the only difference between me and them.
My old man was free with loaning me his 4.1 l Falcon when I was 15/16, I think because his father did the same with him in the '40s. I scared myself once, badly, by spinning out on the motorway at 160+ and was unbelievably lucky to come out with nothing more than scuffed sidewalls on the tyres. It was a cheap lesson and every time I see one of these tragic accidents I'm reminded dumb luck was the only difference between me and them.
Ffirg 005 said:
Yep - the wizardtrickery electrogubbins are great but they don't change the laws of physics. Looking at the evidence, he must have started braking about a half-mile too late.
Unless I mis-read something it was 3am when it happened, would be very easy to out-drive the range of your headlights doing high-speed runs in a 500 bhp car at night.Ffirg 005 said:
It was a cheap lesson and every time I see one of these tragic accidents I'm reminded dumb luck was the only difference between me and them.
There but for the grace of God...At times I'm glad my first car was a gutless Subie Leone wagon, looking back I can see how much trouble I could (and probably would) have got myself into with something faster in my teens. As it was I learnt how to handle a car playing round on gravel backroads, had a few 'moments' to be sure but glad I did it with plenty of space, no traffic and lower speeds involved.
I guess I'm still pretty young and inexperienced compared to some of you lot (old farts
) but while you (should) never stop learning I think some of the biggest lessons about driving happen in the first 3-4 years of driving by yourself - thats the important stuff which keeps you alive, and the finer points are built on top of that later.I had a few "whoopsies" learnign to drive... thankfully, I learned to drive in a Hillman Avenger and a Ford Escort van, at the same time I was learning racecraft in karting.... my mistakes on the road had very small consequences since the car's limits were so low.... if I had the misfortune to hit anything, it'd have been the sort of damage I could have sorted out in an afternoon with a hammer+dolly and a can of appliance-white spraypaint.
If I'd been driving a more powerful/capable car at that age, I'd have made EXACTLY the same mistakes, only I might not be here to talk about them today.
If I'd been driving a more powerful/capable car at that age, I'd have made EXACTLY the same mistakes, only I might not be here to talk about them today.
Esprit said:
...thankfully, I learned to drive in a Hillman Avenger and a Ford Escort van...
I tried to buy a Mk2 Escort (1600 sport) as my first car but the guy decided he didn't want to sell it, and then for whatever reason I ended up buying the Leone and getting hooked on Subies. I still wonder how different my driving would be if I'd learn the art of going sideways in an Esky... 
(and I still want one, just a pity about the prices now)
Fiery crash kills 5 young men
Troopers suspect alcohol played a role in tragedy
ANTHONY - Details about the tragic car crash at Greystone Airport that claimed the lives of five young men early Saturday are still emerging, and it may be some time - if ever - before investigators piece together all the pertinent facts.
One thing is certain. The families and friends of Jacob James Casey, 19; James Devon Hime, 19; Joshua D. Ammirato, 18; Dustin J. Dawe, 19; and Isaac Rubin, 20, are devastated. All five were pronounced dead at the scene after an apparent high-speed crash that investigators say likely involved alcohol.
Ammirato was driving his father's gray 2008 BMW M5 sedan. The $80,000 car, registered to Santo Ammirato, was traveling north on the 1.5-mile-long airstrip that actor John Travolta and others regularly use to fly in and out of Ocala. Florida Highway Patrol Capt. Jeff Succi said there were yaw, or sideways, skid marks at the end of the runway, indicating the car turned sideways before launching over an embankment. It then sailed through the air about 200 feet before slamming into a large tree and bursting into flames.
Troopers believe the car traveled over the 80- to 85-foot high embankment at the end of the airstrip and struck the tree about 15 feet above the ground. The car broke into two pieces upon impact. Three of victims were ejected from the car, FHP officials said. Succi said the crash appears to be alcohol-related, but added that toxicology reports will provide the definitive answer. Succi said the men apparently had been at a party in the hours before the crash, but FHP was still in the process of interviewing witnesses. It is not yet known whether any of the victims were wearing seat belts. The crash was reported to Marion County Fire Rescue at 3:47 a.m. All five men were pronounced dead between 3:55 and 3:56 a.m. by Fire Rescue paramedics at the scene.
The vehicle came to rest in flames near the home of Augustine and Kristina Berenguer in the 1400 block of Northeast 95th Street. The Berenguers were awakened by a bang and saw flames through a window. They said the nearby crash shook their house. Augustine Berenguer went outside to see what had happened and shouted for his wife to call 911. George Borger, who lives next to the airstrip, said a loud engine noise woke him up at 3:30 a.m. "I saw them going up and down the runway," he said. "I don't know how fast they were going, but they were flying."
NORTH MARION MOURNING
The accident strikes at the heart of the North Marion community as three of the young men are North Marion High School graduates. Hime, Ammirato, and Dawe all attended the school. Rubin attended Forest High School, where he was also a wrestler. Casey graduated from Trinity Catholic High, where he played football before moving on to play for Jacksonville University. North Marion High School's former and current students began gathering at Sparr Baptist Church on County Road 329 at about 2 p.m. Saturday to mourn the death of the five young men. North Marion High School principal Kathy Quelland knew three of the young men in the car.
"They were all wrestlers and involved in others sports and very popular students, so this is going to hit the North Marion community really hard," Quelland said. Kathy Crile, whose son graduated with the men and was on the wrestling team with them, organized the gathering at the church, located on the north side of County Road 329 east of the high school. "We wanted to have a place were everyone could get together and mourn, hug and cry," Crile said as students began gathering at the church. Crile said her son was good friends with four of the young men. Crile, who was obviously shaken, said her son easily could have been along for the ride with his friends.
Superintendent of Schools Jim Yancey said counselors will be made available at the school Monday, if needed. Alainya Frauenshuh, a North Marion senior, was friends with the young men, and said they had all gone to a Trinity High School basketball game and then to a party at a friend's home. They were celebrating Dustin "Smiley" Dawe's 19th birthday Friday night. The FHP's Succi said troopers are investigating reports that alcohol was served at the party. "It's heart-breaking," Frauenshuh said. "I'm praying for their families."
The five accident victims - shown from left to right, first the top row, then the bottom row - were Dustin Dawe, Jacob Casey, James Hime, Joshua Ammirato and Isaac Rubin.
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Wednesday 30th January 08:52
Edited by Kiwi Carguy on Wednesday 30th January 09:32
Driver of BMW in fatal crash sought Web advice on making it go faster
BY RICK CUNDIFF
Star-Banner
(Updated at 1:30 p.m.) OCALA - Less than 12 hours before he died, Joshua Ammirato was posting messages on an Internet message board seeking advice about how to drive his 2008 BMW M5 faster.
Ammirato, 18, logged onto M5board.com Thursday and Friday, asking other M5 drivers how to shift smoother in the 500-horsepower machine.
"The problem is when I'm going pedal to the metal pushing 140 and upshifting, there tends to be thud noise with the gear change," he wrote in one post.
Ammirato and four other young Marion County men were killed at about 3:45 a.m. Saturday, when the BMW M5 he was driving sailed off the end of the Greystone airstrip in Anthony and crashed into a tree.
Messages on the board devoted to M5 enthusiasts show Ammirato logged on shortly before 10 p.m. Thursday as "AmericanM5."
"Let me say I am beginner when it comes to high performance cars as I am only 18 so take it easy on me," he wrote.
Other members of the board expressed skepticism that Ammirato could have a car with a base price of $82,900 at such a young age, but warned him to take it easy until he gained more driving experience.
"Maybe your 2 years driving experience in your whole life is the problem," one member wrote.
"The fact that I never drove a manual car before may be true, but I've been driving for a lot longer than two years buddy," Ammirato responded.
Ammirato's M5, according to his posts, was equipped with a "sequential manual gearbox," which shifts like a traditional manual transmission, but without a clutch pedal.
Automobile Magazine has described the M5 as "a fearfully intimidating machine," with writer Michael Jordan adding "we've found that the SMG transmission ... makes you feel like a victim of speed, not its master."
Ammirato told forum members he'd had the car for about three weeks. The vehicle is registered to his father, Santo Ammirato, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.
In his posts, Joshua Ammirato listed his other cars as a 2008 BMW 535i, a 2007 BMW 335i and a 2007 Cadillac Escalade. All have less horsepower than the M5.
News of Ammirato's death drew condolences from forum members on Saturday and Sunday.
"My prayers are with Josh and his family as well. Being that I am 21 and going on my second M5 I know the temptation is great and sometimes hard to handle at that age," one member wrote. "This is a very serious car with extraordinary performance, i have learned to respect it because there is a VERY, VERY thin line between losing it and keeping it on the road."
Another hoped others would learn from the tragedy.
"Truly a sad, sad event. May God be with the families and friends," the poster wrote. "Hope that they have not died completely in vain -- that many young drivers (and their parents) will take this to heart and learn from it."
Ammirato asked forum members on Friday about turning off the M5's electronic stability control for higher performance. A member wrote back with concern.
"With all (due) respect, gradually learn your car before you turn off (stability control)," he wrote. "With a little mistake combination of your mind and your right foot, you can be history. Be safe and enjoy.
"P.S. People on this board care about each other, especially when someone owns 500 hp car at age of 18. Don't take it personal. We all watch each other(s) back."
Another member expressed concern about Ammirato's maturity.
"[I]t's just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of," he wrote.
Ammirato responded at 5:33 p.m. Friday that he was responsible.
"I completely understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible ... that is definitely understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others."
A member from Australia again cautioned Ammirato to be careful.
"My only bit of advice matey -- If you crash in a big way expect to be on the news," he wrote. "Enjoy and resist the temptation to drag others at the lights."
Ammirato responded, in his last post, at 9:02 p.m. Friday.
"Thanks guys, don't get me wrong I never said I didn't respect your wisdom," he wrote. "[T]hanks for the welcome and I am looking forward to getting to know you guys better ... Josh."
BY RICK CUNDIFF
Star-Banner
(Updated at 1:30 p.m.) OCALA - Less than 12 hours before he died, Joshua Ammirato was posting messages on an Internet message board seeking advice about how to drive his 2008 BMW M5 faster.
Ammirato, 18, logged onto M5board.com Thursday and Friday, asking other M5 drivers how to shift smoother in the 500-horsepower machine.
"The problem is when I'm going pedal to the metal pushing 140 and upshifting, there tends to be thud noise with the gear change," he wrote in one post.
Ammirato and four other young Marion County men were killed at about 3:45 a.m. Saturday, when the BMW M5 he was driving sailed off the end of the Greystone airstrip in Anthony and crashed into a tree.
Messages on the board devoted to M5 enthusiasts show Ammirato logged on shortly before 10 p.m. Thursday as "AmericanM5."
"Let me say I am beginner when it comes to high performance cars as I am only 18 so take it easy on me," he wrote.
Other members of the board expressed skepticism that Ammirato could have a car with a base price of $82,900 at such a young age, but warned him to take it easy until he gained more driving experience.
"Maybe your 2 years driving experience in your whole life is the problem," one member wrote.
"The fact that I never drove a manual car before may be true, but I've been driving for a lot longer than two years buddy," Ammirato responded.
Ammirato's M5, according to his posts, was equipped with a "sequential manual gearbox," which shifts like a traditional manual transmission, but without a clutch pedal.
Automobile Magazine has described the M5 as "a fearfully intimidating machine," with writer Michael Jordan adding "we've found that the SMG transmission ... makes you feel like a victim of speed, not its master."
Ammirato told forum members he'd had the car for about three weeks. The vehicle is registered to his father, Santo Ammirato, according to the Florida Highway Patrol.
In his posts, Joshua Ammirato listed his other cars as a 2008 BMW 535i, a 2007 BMW 335i and a 2007 Cadillac Escalade. All have less horsepower than the M5.
News of Ammirato's death drew condolences from forum members on Saturday and Sunday.
"My prayers are with Josh and his family as well. Being that I am 21 and going on my second M5 I know the temptation is great and sometimes hard to handle at that age," one member wrote. "This is a very serious car with extraordinary performance, i have learned to respect it because there is a VERY, VERY thin line between losing it and keeping it on the road."
Another hoped others would learn from the tragedy.
"Truly a sad, sad event. May God be with the families and friends," the poster wrote. "Hope that they have not died completely in vain -- that many young drivers (and their parents) will take this to heart and learn from it."
Ammirato asked forum members on Friday about turning off the M5's electronic stability control for higher performance. A member wrote back with concern.
"With all (due) respect, gradually learn your car before you turn off (stability control)," he wrote. "With a little mistake combination of your mind and your right foot, you can be history. Be safe and enjoy.
"P.S. People on this board care about each other, especially when someone owns 500 hp car at age of 18. Don't take it personal. We all watch each other(s) back."
Another member expressed concern about Ammirato's maturity.
"[I]t's just disturbing to know, if you're for real, that an 18 year old who is asking these questions about a 500hp car is driving the same streets I am. I don't have anything against young guys driving nice cars, but an 18 year old behind the wheel of an M5 is what accidents are made of," he wrote.
Ammirato responded at 5:33 p.m. Friday that he was responsible.
"I completely understand where you are coming from assuming that I am irresponsible ... that is definitely understandable. I do sometimes make bad decisions but I am young and I do drive safe and I will not endanger the lives of others."
A member from Australia again cautioned Ammirato to be careful.
"My only bit of advice matey -- If you crash in a big way expect to be on the news," he wrote. "Enjoy and resist the temptation to drag others at the lights."
Ammirato responded, in his last post, at 9:02 p.m. Friday.
"Thanks guys, don't get me wrong I never said I didn't respect your wisdom," he wrote. "[T]hanks for the welcome and I am looking forward to getting to know you guys better ... Josh."
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