Lets look at our guitars thread

Lets look at our guitars thread

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Discussion

DeuxCentCinq

14,180 posts

181 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Gaz. said:
smile

I've finally got that Rocksmith game, hours literally dissolve as I try to master 'Pour Some Sugar On Me' especially when the frigging thing keeps saying 'miss' 5 out of ten times I play E5 in the chorus. I am assuming it is the Squire going ever so slightly out of tune every 30 minutes so I shall use the Les Paul next and see if that makes a difference.
Yes, it's quite particular about that sort of thing. Can't hide with distortion like I would normally do...

BaronVonV8

397 posts

183 months

Saturday 24th January 2015
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Gaz. said:
smile

I've finally got that Rocksmith game, hours literally dissolve as I try to master 'Pour Some Sugar On Me' especially when the frigging thing keeps saying 'miss' 5 out of ten times I play E5 in the chorus. I am assuming it is the Squire going ever so slightly out of tune every 30 minutes so I shall use the Les Paul next and see if that makes a difference.
I dunno if it's a problem with the game, but I get something similar in that it seems to register a lot of 'miss's on the D string when i'm playing chords. Probably happens 3/10 times, only on the D string, whether it's open or fretted, no matter what guitar I use and I tune up regularly. It's actually annoyed me to the point of not playing the game for a few weeks. Which is a shame as it's a lot of fun.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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It's funny to see the mention of the 'extended string' on the Telecaster above with the reverse headstock. I mention that as I remember a few years ago there was a fairly furious debate on on Talkbass.com about whether or not this was 'snake oil' or 'voodoo magic' as they were fond of saying. At the time, Fodera had started offering an 'extended low B' option on their basses, basically extending the B string to the furthest away tuner past the nut, so instead of going to the first tuner it would be routed to the tuner usually reserved for the A string. The option seemed to become more popular at the time as they were making a lot of 33" scale basses (popular with Matt Garrison and others). The buyers were after the most even, full low B they could get which can tend to 'flap' on some basses(1). There was a considerable difference of opinion over it, with some posters arguing the physics that the speaking length of the string is all that matters as post-nut, the string is isolated from the vibration that matters between a rich, tonal low B and a flappy mess. Others suggested that there was some credibility to it, giving examples like Fender's through body strung Strats sounding fuller and having more sustain than the string through bridge models, but not really saying much about extended stringing past the nut. Others said that Fodera knew better than anyone what they were doing. IIRC, one of the guys from Fodera eventually entered the debate and said they weren't sure if it made a difference or not but they'd offer it as an option as long as people paid for it!

(1) Scale length not being the be-all-and-end-all of the Low B tension argument. Fender Precision and Jazz 5 strings at 34" were known to be have a weak low B. An Alembic 5 string I tried, with 32" scale, was incredible and could stand up to any 35" low B in terms of tone - through neck and extremely heavy walnut body probably assisting in this regard!











Mastodon2 said:
I've just "pulled the trigger" (/cringe) on a Fender Classic Series 50s Telecaster. I went to play some Teles, but nothing in the shop was that close to the 50s model, so I just played a Mexican Standard Tele, which I liked a lot. I know the 50s will be different, but as my guitars are usually 7 string superstrats, I just wanted to make sure I could get on with a Tele, and frankly any Tele would do.

After a battle with Halifax fraud department (they blocked the transaction so they could phone me and ask if the transaction was genuine, then guitarguitar blocked the transaction as their sagepay software didn't believe the bank verification), I finally managed to get the order placed. It should be with me on Sunday. Twang twang.

It's one of these



Which is a bit of a far cry from my other guitar



I can't wait. Bring me the guitar!
You'll have an absolute blast on that guitar. These Classic Series guitars are fantastic but the 50's models are the best of the lot. Pure, classic Fender in absolutely unadulterated form that play and sound as good as almost any model in their range (the exception being the Master Built models).

It's funny that Fender are so nailed on perfect with their guitars in a way they never really managed with their basses. I don't like Precision basses at all but I will always respect the Jazz bass as a useful instrument but never anything superlative. The best of those I've played were fretted, a Victor Bailey Jazz and fretless, the Jaco Pastorius Jazz I used to own. Both fine instruments but I always felt there was something better. Whereas with say, the 50's Stratocaster; it's just perfect. Looks brilliant. Sounds brilliant. Plays brilliantly. Fits in everywhere. I love and respect the 'new masters' like Ibanez whom I think have done the best and most for guitar design since Leo Fender released the Telecaster and the Stratocaster, but Fender just fking nailed their first guitars right out of the shop. With bass guitars, it wasn't until Alembic kickstarted the handmade bass market that bass guitars really started getting amazing.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Not quite perfect straight out of the box - the original Fender Esquire didn't have a truss rod, which went exactly as badly as you might imagine.

Mastodon2

13,818 posts

164 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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davepoth said:
Not quite perfect straight out of the box - the original Fender Esquire didn't have a truss rod, which went exactly as badly as you might imagine.
I wonder if you ordered a faithful vintage-spec custom shop Esquire, if they'd really let it leave the shop without a truss rod. Yes it would be authentic, but once the neck turned banana you'd be left with an expensive ornament. They'd probably hide a graphite rod in the neck to hold it straight, and give it the "no truss rod" look.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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I'm sure the custom shop would build it if you'd paid for it, though why you would, I've no idea! When I refer to Fender getting it right the first time, I mean, of course, with the typical Telecaster and Stratocaster that we'd recognise today (an Esquire with frets fitted straight into a one piece neck, not so much). The P and J basses are ubiquitous and seemingly more popular because they feel familiar and sound engineers know how to mix them, with better sounding alternatives available, whereas the Fender Strat and Tele are genuinely a 'best in class' sound and can compete with any high end, handbuilt guitar in terms of tone.

Evangelion

7,639 posts

177 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Baryonyx said:
... examples like Fender's through body strung Strats sounding fuller and having more sustain than the string through bridge models ...
Funny you should say that, there's a guy on YouTube who claims that stringing through the bridge gives more sustain than through the body. But he fails to say exactly why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaHt9NUQdBo

He also claims that bolt-on necks are better than glued in ones. Strange fellow.

Mastodon2

13,818 posts

164 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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The Classic Series 1950s Telecaster has arrived. First impressions are very good, I couldn't play it as long as I'd like as my fingers are completely unconditioned at the moment, so I need to build my calluses back up. However, it plays really nicely, though I'll probably string it with .9s when it needs a fresh set. The neck is a "custom C profile" according to Fender, it's pretty thin, certainly thinner than I was expecting, which is a bonus. It's very light too. It's got little 1950s style frets, which are pretty different to the jumbo frets I'm used to on my superstrats, but it's a lovely guitar to play. I'

In terms of tone, it's bright and twangy, the low output pickups have a lot of clarity and it sounds great when strummed like an acoustic guitar. On the bridge position, it's pure country twang, the neck is quite warm and soft and the middle is a blend of both. The pickups are specific to this model, and as usual Fender have nailed their signature sound, clarity and note definition without harsh, ice-picky shrillness. Wonderful, and to top it off, the pickups are nice and quiet too, the 1950s was a great era for Teles but singlecoil hum is something only the most fervent vintage enthusiasts would want. In terms of the twang, I suppose it owes a good deal to the bridge, which is an old ashtray style, with a "patent filed" message pressed into it. Pretty cool! The low output pickups really hold their clarity when the gain is turned up it retains brightness, clarity and attack without becoming harsh. I can't help but feel like Richie Kotzen when I play it.

My only plans for the future are to possibly fit grooved brass saddles to replace the chrome saddles, and I'll probably leave it at that. I might get a Fender Hot Rod to go with it. It feels like a keeper, I can see myself playing this for a long time. smile


Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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That is very cool. I hadn't thought that much about Telecasters until recently when I was listening to Johnny Hiland and thinking that his tone is amazing.

davidd

6,443 posts

283 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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That is a lovely Tele. I must go and dig mine out sometime.

developer

265 posts

156 months

Sunday 25th January 2015
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Recently acquired for my lad - 2008 Les Paul Custom in Ebony.

B17NNS

18,506 posts

246 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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developer said:
Recently acquired for my lad - 2008 Les Paul Custom in Ebony.
ooooof!

gazza285

9,780 posts

207 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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Dirty rock guitars.




Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Monday 26th January 2015
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Gaz. said:
You have a standard USA Strat don't you? I'd be interested in your opinion on that vs the Soloist SL3. smile
I've recently bought a Classic 50's Series Stratocaster. I traded my SL3 in against that. Very different guitars, but both fantastic instruments. I expect I'll have another Super Strat again one day. My next Jackson/Charvel will likely be a Charvel 750XL like Shawn Lane used to play. Rare, but worth seeking out.

Like this:


IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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Baryonyx said:
(1) Scale length not being the be-all-and-end-all of the Low B tension argument. Fender Precision and Jazz 5 strings at 34" were known to be have a weak low B. An Alembic 5 string I tried, with 32" scale, was incredible and could stand up to any 35" low B in terms of tone - through neck and extremely heavy walnut body probably assisting in this regard!
There does seem to be a strong correlation to quality of instrument to tone and weight to sustain.

Having had a month with my Dingwall I'm really beginning to appreciate the variable scale-length from the fanned frets. Partly because you can trade string weight for tension - the B & E are thinner for the tension than they would be on a 34" bass. The E is as much of a revelation as the B - the extra 3" there make a massive difference. The balance between string tension is more even but, at my ability level, it's not a huge thing - probably would be for a very skilled player.

The single biggest thing is the intonation. My old Thumb 5-string had terrible b-string intonation and the E wasn't great - that was on standard medium weight strings. Playing something like Muse's Hysteria was ok but only because the nostes are short. Playing anything melodic up ~the octave showed it up a lot and meant much more need to move lengthwise. I'm re-learning a lot of material now to have a more static left-hand position.

Fender seem to have moved to higher mass bridges in recent years - I'd hope that would improve their 5-string tone somewhat but I think the best solution would be a fender clone from the likes of Sandberg, etc.

Mastodon2

13,818 posts

164 months

Tuesday 27th January 2015
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IainT said:
There does seem to be a strong correlation to quality of instrument to tone and weight to sustain.

Having had a month with my Dingwall I'm really beginning to appreciate the variable scale-length from the fanned frets. Partly because you can trade string weight for tension - the B & E are thinner for the tension than they would be on a 34" bass. The E is as much of a revelation as the B - the extra 3" there make a massive difference. The balance between string tension is more even but, at my ability level, it's not a huge thing - probably would be for a very skilled player.
There is so much bks and misinformation (sometimes deliberately disseminated in order to market guitars) about what makes a vocal, clear tone from an instrument. Fatter strings / thicker bodies / heavier woods etc = more sustain, better tone etc - it's just not true. I find that heavier strings sound like rubber bands, and the most lively, clear and punchy guitars I've played have been lightweights, not heavy slabs.

I was in a guitar shop last Friday, and I heard one of the salesman telling a customer that "7 string tremolos are a nightmare to balance, because of all that extra tension from the low string", what a load of horsest. They're a piece of piss to balance and no more difficult than a 6 string floating bridge, my 7s have not even needed more springs in the back than my 6 strings, so the "massive tension difference" is obviously not so massive after all. The very same salesman said the same to me some 10 or 11 years ago in a different guitar shop when he was trying to put me off getting a 7 string, probably because they didn't have any in stock as they weren't popular back then. Anything to sell a guitar, for better or worse, but it does demonstrate how incorrect notions can be taken to heart and regurgitated without thought or reason.

BorkFactor

7,258 posts

157 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
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Depends what you like really, I think as far as strings go 10s are a good mix of playability and tone. My Strat sounds miles better with 10s rather than 9s, takes a bit of getting used to but well worth it.

Same with acoustics, light strings just sound dead and the sustain is lacking (on my one at least). Mine is strung with 13s and sounds fantastic smile


IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
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Mastodon2 said:
IainT said:
There does seem to be a strong correlation to quality of instrument to tone and weight to sustain.

Having had a month with my Dingwall I'm really beginning to appreciate the variable scale-length from the fanned frets. Partly because you can trade string weight for tension - the B & E are thinner for the tension than they would be on a 34" bass. The E is as much of a revelation as the B - the extra 3" there make a massive difference. The balance between string tension is more even but, at my ability level, it's not a huge thing - probably would be for a very skilled player.
There is so much bks and misinformation (sometimes deliberately disseminated in order to market guitars) about what makes a vocal, clear tone from an instrument. Fatter strings / thicker bodies / heavier woods etc = more sustain, better tone etc - it's just not true. I find that heavier strings sound like rubber bands, and the most lively, clear and punchy guitars I've played have been lightweights, not heavy slabs.
Interesting how many expert views there are on this. The whole 'tone wood' thing is interesting. For bass frequencies I can see how manufacture will impact the way the vibration in the string interacts with the guitar - maximum sustain is when all the wave energy is directed back into the string from nut or bridge rather than absorbed. But surely tone is a combination of that and the pickup/electronics voicing not the wood it's bolted on to..?

My Dingwall is lighter than my previous Warwick Thumb 5 and sounds totally different. The sustain is better on the E/B strings, even drop A sounds more focused than the Thumb did on standard B-tuning. How much of this is down to quality of manufacture, the scale length, type of strings... hard to tell. What I do know is the neck profile suite me more, it sounds good and beings a smile to my face when I play it. Wouldn't matter if it cost £200 as long as it did that.

BorkFactor

7,258 posts

157 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
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Tonewood makes a huge difference on acoustic guitars - one with a mahogany back and sides sounds totally different to one with rosewood back and sides, for example.

I think it is a much finer difference on electric guitars, as you say the electrics do most of the work. I am of the opinion that it can make a subtle difference - I think an ash bodied Strat sounds ever so slightly different from an alder bodied one but you would be really hard pressed to tell the difference on a recording or live performance. A guitar is a highly personal thing so I think some enthusiastic owners will swear they can hear a difference, and fair play to them.

There is more to it than simply pickups though, if you got a Les Paul and a Tele and swapped the pickups then they would not sound the same as they were when original. Same way that Les Pauls and SGs sound different - often the same pickups and hardware, but one has a much thinner body.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 28th January 2015
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IainT said:
There does seem to be a strong correlation to quality of instrument to tone and weight to sustain.

Having had a month with my Dingwall I'm really beginning to appreciate the variable scale-length from the fanned frets. Partly because you can trade string weight for tension - the B & E are thinner for the tension than they would be on a 34" bass. The E is as much of a revelation as the B - the extra 3" there make a massive difference. The balance between string tension is more even but, at my ability level, it's not a huge thing - probably would be for a very skilled player.

The single biggest thing is the intonation. My old Thumb 5-string had terrible b-string intonation and the E wasn't great - that was on standard medium weight strings. Playing something like Muse's Hysteria was ok but only because the nostes are short. Playing anything melodic up ~the octave showed it up a lot and meant much more need to move lengthwise. I'm re-learning a lot of material now to have a more static left-hand position.

Fender seem to have moved to higher mass bridges in recent years - I'd hope that would improve their 5-string tone somewhat but I think the best solution would be a fender clone from the likes of Sandberg, etc.
Sometimes weight isn't the be-all-and-end-all in terms of tone though, which is interesting to note. After all, Fender once made a granite Stratocaster prototype which was so heavy it needed to be put on a stand to play! But compare the sound of the Thumb SC to the standard Thumb, I can't hear any difference in the tone when the same woods are used in each bass. And the best Low B I've ever heard was on my old Status Stealth 6 string. That was a pretty light bass, simply being a carbon fibre monocoque built around a small wooden frame. However, being one piece and made of a stiff material like carbon fibre, it sounded incredible. I've played loads of Thumb 5 strings too and generally found them pretty good in terms of tone and intonation, though my preference for Thumbs is definitely biased towards singlecoil pickups.


Scale length is definitely a part of it too. I used to have a Kubicki Ex Factor bass, a very cool design which was 32" scale with a 'D-Clip' on the E string. Basically a spring loaded metal arm which sat against the E string at the nut. Lift the arm, push the string and release the arm and it would sink into a groove so it was flush with the fretboard, and your E string would now have a scale length of 36" and be tuned to D. Very neat and it sounded awesome. It gave me a hankering to check out some 36" scale basses, the first of which was an Overwater.