Boiling Petrol- help

Boiling Petrol- help

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Discussion

bluesatin

Original Poster:

3,114 posts

273 months

Saturday 9th August 2003
quotequote all
Has any body experienced this before.

Just been on a 45 min run in the Ultima. Water stayed ok and everything was fine for the first 30 mins.

However, while coasting the revs went mad as if an ignition fault. In traffic this got worse unless constant reving. Back driving on open roads ok. But turning into the garage at home the car died.

Had a look at the carb and the fuel is boiling and forcing into the venturis. Checked the temp and the carb is at 65c.

Has anybody had this before and any suggestions before pie on the beach tomorrow.

I know it is hot but the car survived a slightly cooler Le Mans!

pashby

66 posts

257 months

Saturday 9th August 2003
quotequote all
I'm fitting a carb spacers on all my v8s to insulate the carb from the manifold heat conduction. Has other benefits as well.

Insulate fuel lines and fuel pumps as well from the exhaust manifold heat if not in free airstream.

uscanam

514 posts

260 months

Saturday 9th August 2003
quotequote all
Guy
Don't know what engine or intake manifold you have, but the only way a carb can be heated is if your electric choke has a short and is acting as a heater element, you have a manifold that has a water jacket, or an exhaust jacket as used in some anti-polution set-ups. Check for problems there.
Normally, when you have air that is mixed with fuel,you have a cooling effect that helps keep the carb and the intake manifold cool.
This might be a place to start.
Many, many years ago I had a Shorrock supercharger on a racing Sprite, and the way they cooled the intake air was by having a length of aluminum tube between supercharger and the carb. When the engine was running, that tube was actually cold and acting as an inter-cooler. This fed cooled air into the charger which bolted to the cylinder head.
Jack

bluesatin

Original Poster:

3,114 posts

273 months

Saturday 9th August 2003
quotequote all
The engine is from the normal Ultima source in the US. It has a spacer as well. The only thing that may have caused this is Nos octane booster. This is very volatile and may have caused the boiling!

Thanks for help so far.

Guy

eliotmansfield

11,438 posts

255 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
My carb was getting mega hot in london traffic making it really difficult to drive without constant revving.
I made a 1" carb spacer and i re-circulated the fuel back the to tank. (I fitted a restrictor in the renturn line to prevent too much presure loss)
This ensures a constant supply of cool fuel right up to where it enters the carb.
I also noticed an improvement in low/mid torque also.
Here's a picture of it beeing made: (no thats not me, but my dad!)
www.mez.co.uk/chevyupgradeupdates.html
I originally made an open square bore one, but that that didn't work at all well, becuase my manifold has a central web down the middle. This one matches the 4 holes on the bottom of the carb.
Eliot.

>> Edited by eliotmansfield on Sunday 10th August 19:29

Steve_D

13,749 posts

259 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
Guy
The instructions with my new Victor Junior say use 2 inches worth of spacer so perhaps you could add a second spacer to yours.
Steve

fluxen

78 posts

250 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
Just FYI, Trans-Am series cars, which use carb'd V8's making over 600hp, still use WOOD spacers of about 1" thickness to isolate the heat. It turns out that despite all the tech in the world, wood is still the best cost-effective solution. May help?

gtrclive

4,186 posts

284 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
Hi Paul, Andy may have allready told you about this but, while we where at Santa Pod yesterday, we both suffered with what sounded like a Missfire in 1st and 2nd gear off the line. But it cleared by the time I was in third. Talking to the pit crew for a 11 Litre 8.8 Second Calibra, they looked at my car and said that the weather ie. heat was to much for the fuel lines, And showed us there fuel recirculating system, but also said that it was mainly because the fuel was sitting in the fuel lines heating up while the engine was not being driven hard. So once we had used the fuel in the lines, then the problem would go.

Solutions:-

1. Insulate fuel lines in engine bay.
2. Change fuel pump for larger GPH, and install constant fuel bleed back to tanks.
3. Or don't drive slowly.

eliotmansfield

11,438 posts

255 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
This is exactly why i recirculate my fuel. My chevy is in a 4x4, which makes it even worse, becuase most work is done driving very slowly. The fuel pipes come up up on the bulkhead right next to the headers, then over the top of the engine. So at tickover, hardly any fuel is used, hence the fuel is red hot before it even enters the carb.
When its sat in traffic, the fuel return pipe is atcually quite hot.
Eliot.

pashby

66 posts

257 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
A word of caution about carb spacers.

Jet sizing is important factor that has to be changed when adding a spacer. Larger jets are required with a spacer. One jet larger for a spacer with four holes is typical if not more. An open spacer generally needs an even larger size.

I think the recirculation of fuel could be a good thing, but heat soak into the carb has been identified before, so spacers can't be bad.

eliotmansfield

11,438 posts

255 months

Sunday 10th August 2003
quotequote all
Ive done both (re-circ and spacer) and solved problem completely. WRT to mixture and jets, i fitted a lambda sensor to the exhaust manifold, and made up a DIY A/F guage - works a treat.

e.

ultimaandy

1,225 posts

265 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
I think part of the problem may have been down to the octain booster... Guy mentioned that he was using this and I know Clive was trying this as well (and had problems from the first run).

My car however was running with just super unleaded and I only had the problem on the 3rd run when the car had had to sit for a hour waiting to go back on the track so under canopy heat was extremelly high and the lines were untouchably hot.

Incidentally.... I noticed that the engine bay temp was over 60c at one point and was even sitting at over 50c whilst driving home from pie on the beach... and thats with huge side scoops and exhaust wrap.
Anyone else have a temp guage in the engine bay?

Steve_D

13,749 posts

259 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
You really need to know the engine bay temp of your average repmobile to know if the 50-60 is anything out of the norm.
Steve

Stig

11,818 posts

285 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
I get this problem but only with the O/S fuel tank? In stationary traffic, the under canopy temps can get high enough to evapourate the fuel resulting in a low fuel pressure warning.

Switching tanks does fix it though which is a bit odd as the fuel line routing is symmetrical?

Nacnud

2,190 posts

270 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
Reliant Scimitar's have a fuel boiling problem as well. Not sure how relevant this is but it might be worth saying.

Scimitar's have a mechanical fuel pump and the fuel boils in the pump resulting in pumping only bubbles into the carb. Fine under cruising, but as soon as try to overtake you get on the wrong side of the road, fully comit to the overtake and then the float chamber gets sucked dry. Really hairy!

Standard fix is to fit an electrical fuel pump.

davejw

197 posts

252 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
I also blame the Carter pumps. An SPA fuel pressure guage is fitted and when cold, 6psi is easy to obtain. When hot however this can drop to 3psi and with the car under load I saw 2psi... Fitted a Holley pump and regulator to Pump 1 (Left), the backup Carter is in Pump 2 (Right). The Holley pump maintains 6psi under all conditions - the fuel lines have roll-over one way valves so don't recirculate but I don't have the heat problem and yes, I was on the road yesterday (green house effect very present in the cabin) !

Cheers,

Dave

jschwartz

836 posts

259 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
The reformulated Fuel sold in large cities in the US has a much lower boiling point than in the past.
Higher octane fuel is actually less volatile and a higher boiling point since it is designed to burn slower for high compression applications.
This is exactly why I went with an EFI LS6.

ultimaandy

1,225 posts

265 months

Monday 11th August 2003
quotequote all
Dave... both me and clive run holley blue fuel pumps so it wasn't that.

Your unlikelly to recreate the circumstances that caused my brief stutter on the road (I still did a 12.4!) and I did over 500miles this weekend and never had even the remotest issue (except that one time on the strip obviously) so I'm not that concerned.

I think the answer is to not use octain booster on hot days in an Ultima!