Discussion
On a long wide a-road on the way home there's a right turn off the a-road on to a minor road. To turn right you move in to a middle bit letting the rest of the traffic carry on. Hopefully you can see this in this picture (I'm talking about coming from right to left)...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
Now if you're on your bike and there's traffic ahead of you would you use this right turn area to overtake all the cars? This is assuming that you are going straight on and as no one is indicating you believe everyone else will too.
It strikes me that this is pretty dangerous and someone could simply pull out in front of you to turn right so I've never done it but the vast majority of bikers I come across on the road do go for it.
Anyone done a course or something where advice is given on this sort of thing? If so, what did they say?
Ta,
Mark
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
Now if you're on your bike and there's traffic ahead of you would you use this right turn area to overtake all the cars? This is assuming that you are going straight on and as no one is indicating you believe everyone else will too.
It strikes me that this is pretty dangerous and someone could simply pull out in front of you to turn right so I've never done it but the vast majority of bikers I come across on the road do go for it.
Anyone done a course or something where advice is given on this sort of thing? If so, what did they say?
Ta,
Mark
Edited by dern on Thursday 10th April 11:32
I'm new to biking and yet to complete my DAS but I would not overtake in that situation or anywhere there's an elevated risk of someone turning right into me. I would imagine on the section of road you have highlighted it would be an offence that carries points? Though I do often see bikers pulling this maneuver.
Would you and should you are two different questions.
Should you? I don’t think you should as you would not be obeying the markings on the road by using the ‘turn right only’ lane to not turn right and overtaking at a junction is a ‘no-no’.
Would you? Well, I might, depending on the other traffic conditions. If the ‘straight on’ left lane traffic is busy and moving slowly then I would consider using the turn right lane to enable a filtering type overtake. I would keep the speed difference down and would watch carefully for vehicles that suddenly decide they’d rather turn right than keep going straight on. (Such vehicles should look carefully first as there may well be vehicles in that lane travelling faster than them before executing the legitimate right turn.) Obviously I'd also watch carefully for vehicles emerging from the left to turn right from the minor road who may believe their way is clear as left lane traffic may have ‘flashed them out’.
Likewise, if there are only 1 or 2 vehicles ahead of me and it looks pretty certain that they are going straight on and not turning right then I might again be tempted to take the overtake opportunity although I am aware of the risks of overtaking near a junction and would want to ensure that the overtake is completed prior to the actual junction and I would be very much looking out for the ‘sudden dive to the right’ from the vehicles being overtaken.
ETA From the valid post by T-Boy below, I am assuming there is no on-coming traffic.
Should you? I don’t think you should as you would not be obeying the markings on the road by using the ‘turn right only’ lane to not turn right and overtaking at a junction is a ‘no-no’.
Would you? Well, I might, depending on the other traffic conditions. If the ‘straight on’ left lane traffic is busy and moving slowly then I would consider using the turn right lane to enable a filtering type overtake. I would keep the speed difference down and would watch carefully for vehicles that suddenly decide they’d rather turn right than keep going straight on. (Such vehicles should look carefully first as there may well be vehicles in that lane travelling faster than them before executing the legitimate right turn.) Obviously I'd also watch carefully for vehicles emerging from the left to turn right from the minor road who may believe their way is clear as left lane traffic may have ‘flashed them out’.
Likewise, if there are only 1 or 2 vehicles ahead of me and it looks pretty certain that they are going straight on and not turning right then I might again be tempted to take the overtake opportunity although I am aware of the risks of overtaking near a junction and would want to ensure that the overtake is completed prior to the actual junction and I would be very much looking out for the ‘sudden dive to the right’ from the vehicles being overtaken.
ETA From the valid post by T-Boy below, I am assuming there is no on-coming traffic.
Edited by black-k1 on Thursday 10th April 12:00
Looking at that picture the bigger danger would be from someone coming from the opposite direction (left to right) and wanting to turn right in the filter lane. If you went for an overtake you'd be head on to someone on the same bit of road.
In that respect you've therefore got to watch out for people turning right from your lane, left from the opposite direction and twunts pulling out of either side road without looking.
Seems far too risky to me.
In that respect you've therefore got to watch out for people turning right from your lane, left from the opposite direction and twunts pulling out of either side road without looking.
Seems far too risky to me.
These thoughts echo mine... I just wanted to check that I wasn't being overly cautious. I normally overtake before and after the dangerous bit and not through the junction which seems safest but most people seem to carry on through the lot at high speed regardless of the risks I perceive. Still personal choice and all that. The only problem I've ever had with it is when the guy behind me presumably expects me to do carry on through the junction and nearly collects me when I slow down and rejoin the traffic for the junction.
Cheers.
Cheers.
I wouldn't overtake there as it looks like a crossroads, meaning cars could pull a last minute right-hand turn without indicating from either direction.
If there was just one exit I would overtake if the juction was on my side, but not if it was on the opposite side for the reasons above.
The fact that there is a merge-off lane in the centre would make no difference to me (unless a car was about to turn and he had a gap he could use). It's purely the risk of being cut off by someone turning without indicating that would concern me.
If there was just one exit I would overtake if the juction was on my side, but not if it was on the opposite side for the reasons above.
The fact that there is a merge-off lane in the centre would make no difference to me (unless a car was about to turn and he had a gap he could use). It's purely the risk of being cut off by someone turning without indicating that would concern me.
Here's another one for you...
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
Coming right to left on this map takes you along the a4 towards Thatcham. As you can hopefully see it's hatched all the way down the middle heading west towards a roundabout heading in to Thatcham. There's a turn off to the right in to a hotel on the right (the big place with the big carpark) and this turn is surrounded by islands. Past that the road opens up so you gas it in to the bike lane (
) which goes all the way to the roundabout. However, there's a turn right in to Cox's lane. I normally pull in before this junction and last night did the same thing as normal as another bike came past me doing about a ton straight through the junction and on to the roundabout. It looked pretty cool but I think by the way he came past me he hadn't anticipated me slowing and pulling in to the traffic. I was going 'quite quickly' on the hatched bit before the junction so do you think I'm giving the wrong impression by doing that and then pulling in before the junction and that if I'm not going to go all the way I should stay in with the traffic or am I doing the right thing.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&ge...
Coming right to left on this map takes you along the a4 towards Thatcham. As you can hopefully see it's hatched all the way down the middle heading west towards a roundabout heading in to Thatcham. There's a turn off to the right in to a hotel on the right (the big place with the big carpark) and this turn is surrounded by islands. Past that the road opens up so you gas it in to the bike lane (
) which goes all the way to the roundabout. However, there's a turn right in to Cox's lane. I normally pull in before this junction and last night did the same thing as normal as another bike came past me doing about a ton straight through the junction and on to the roundabout. It looked pretty cool but I think by the way he came past me he hadn't anticipated me slowing and pulling in to the traffic. I was going 'quite quickly' on the hatched bit before the junction so do you think I'm giving the wrong impression by doing that and then pulling in before the junction and that if I'm not going to go all the way I should stay in with the traffic or am I doing the right thing. dern said:
o you think I'm giving the wrong impression by doing that and then pulling in before the junction and that if I'm not going to go all the way I should stay in with the traffic or am I doing the right thing.
I'd do exactly the same as you. In before the junction. If someone behind is achieving a closing speed high enough for that to be a problem then that's their own poor riding that's at fault. Even if there was no junction i'd be back in with the traffic before the roundabout anyway.Hi,
If saw by police it would be seen as failing to comply with lane signals.. ie if there is a right arrow showing turn right and you use the lane to overtake you would be failing to comply with the lane directions... 3 points and £60 instant. If you didnt pay ticket I could see the local Fiscal or proscecutor uping it to dangerous or careless easilly...
Cheers
If saw by police it would be seen as failing to comply with lane signals.. ie if there is a right arrow showing turn right and you use the lane to overtake you would be failing to comply with the lane directions... 3 points and £60 instant. If you didnt pay ticket I could see the local Fiscal or proscecutor uping it to dangerous or careless easilly...
Cheers
I think I'd probably do the same and stop the overtake before Cox Lane although it would depend on the speed of the traffic heading west. If it were slow and assuming there is good visibility of the Cox Lane junction then I may be tempted to 'stay out' going past the junction but my speed differential with the west moving traffic would be small and there would need to be no on-coming traffic and space to handle the 'late indicators/right turns' into Cox Lane.
While I totally agree that anyone coming up behind on the overtake would be totally in the wrong, you do have to balance the risk of them either ploughing into the rear of your bike or loosing it on a panic brake against the risk on continuing the overtake past the junction. The 'lesser of the evils' is not always the same as the technically correct way to proceed.
While I totally agree that anyone coming up behind on the overtake would be totally in the wrong, you do have to balance the risk of them either ploughing into the rear of your bike or loosing it on a panic brake against the risk on continuing the overtake past the junction. The 'lesser of the evils' is not always the same as the technically correct way to proceed.
black-k1 said:
I think I'd probably do the same and stop the overtake before Cox Lane although it would depend on the speed of the traffic heading west. If it were slow and assuming there is good visibility of the Cox Lane junction then I may be tempted to 'stay out' going past the junction but my speed differential with the west moving traffic would be small and there would need to be no on-coming traffic and space to handle the 'late indicators/right turns' into Cox Lane.
While I totally agree that anyone coming up behind on the overtake would be totally in the wrong, you do have to balance the risk of them either ploughing into the rear of your bike or loosing it on a panic brake against the risk on continuing the overtake past the junction. The 'lesser of the evils' is not always the same as the technically correct way to proceed.
Completely understand what you're saying but I didn't even know he was there until he came past. He hadn't been behind me along the A4 at any point and wasn't visible when I pulled out on to the hatched bit. I looked over my shoulder too and indicated but it was within feet of passing an island on the middle of the road so it would have been impossible to have collected him at that point. I oculdn't see him at any point while I was on the hatched bit because the mirrors go haywire on the painted lines (and it was at 8pm/dusk) so while he must have been behind me on the hatches I couldn't see him and didn't know he was there as I slowed and pulled in.While I totally agree that anyone coming up behind on the overtake would be totally in the wrong, you do have to balance the risk of them either ploughing into the rear of your bike or loosing it on a panic brake against the risk on continuing the overtake past the junction. The 'lesser of the evils' is not always the same as the technically correct way to proceed.
I don't want to point fingers at the guy by the way, we all have these choices to make... I was more concerned that I was being a bit of a gaylord for not simply continuing to overtake through these examples and that because of this I was getting in the way which I'd be mortified at
.
dern said:
Look to the right of that into Church Hill , and first ( only ) house on the right (incorrectly labelled School Hill ) and thats my house Edited by Busamav on Thursday 10th April 19:58
I know this is going to sound cowboy to some , but regardless of the markings.............
an overtake is fair game whenever I see it is safe ,not some random road markings , I dont take chances , if the internal "dont be a prattometer" sounds or theirs something I dont like about whats in front of me s , I dont go
As for the junction shown , i wouldnt pull an overtakke through that section of road .
We have lived here for 8 months and there is a serious accident along that stretch every month .
The first 2 weekends we saw a road closure and ambulance to an accident , then a death just a bit further along .
There are traffic islands to a lot of those junctions now.
ps , if you are the fukker that speeds past with a noisy can , your days are numbered , there will be a grey Volvo V70 waiting for you one day
an overtake is fair game whenever I see it is safe ,not some random road markings , I dont take chances , if the internal "dont be a prattometer" sounds or theirs something I dont like about whats in front of me s , I dont go
As for the junction shown , i wouldnt pull an overtakke through that section of road .
We have lived here for 8 months and there is a serious accident along that stretch every month .
The first 2 weekends we saw a road closure and ambulance to an accident , then a death just a bit further along .
There are traffic islands to a lot of those junctions now.
ps , if you are the fukker that speeds past with a noisy can , your days are numbered , there will be a grey Volvo V70 waiting for you one day
Edited by Busamav on Thursday 10th April 20:45
Busamav said:
As for the junction shown , i wouldnt pull an overtakke through that section of road .
We have lived here for 8 months and there is a serious accident along that stretch every month .
The first 2 weekends we saw a road closure and ambulance to an accident , then a death just a bit further along .
There are traffic islands to a lot of those junctions now.
I've been commuting off and on down that road since we moved here about 9 years ago and it can get a bit hairy. I've never seen it closed but don't tend to use the bike much at the weekends.We have lived here for 8 months and there is a serious accident along that stretch every month .
The first 2 weekends we saw a road closure and ambulance to an accident , then a death just a bit further along .
There are traffic islands to a lot of those junctions now.
Busamav said:
ps , if you are the fukker that speeds past with a noisy can , your days are numbered , there will be a grey Volvo V70 waiting for you one day
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