Right to refuse a promotion

[stevieb]

To cut a long story short, am i within my rights to refuse a promotion. In someways i want the promotion but it leaves me £200 per month worse off. I hae heard of taking a step back to go forwards but this is just stupid in the current economic climate.

Any Advice appriciated

[P4554T]

If they want to promote you, then surely you might be able to stipulate that it has to be financial viable for you.

If you have a fairly understanding employer, then they should listen to you?

How does it leave you better off? Tipping you over income tax bracket, more company car tax?

I worked out that there is no point getting a pay rise between the lowest level of the higher bracker and a £1K above it because of the BIK.

[stevieb]

P4554T said:

If they want to promote you, then surely you might be able to stipulate that it has to be financial viable for you.

If you have a fairly understanding employer, then they should listen to you?

How does it leave you better off? Tipping you over income tax bracket, more company car tax?

I worked out that there is no point getting a pay rise between the lowest level of the higher bracker and a £1K above it because of the BIK.

My Problem is that working more hours than contracted is a must and hence i do 45 hours a week at the moment to keep the the office running smoothly. I am only contracted 37.5 hours. So at the end of the month i usually have 25+ hours overtime to claim.

I am unfiortunately in the higher tax bracket, i do not have acompany car and do not get a car allowance. Something i should get with the promotion but now they are saying that they are not giving me this.. But they give it to all the other staff on this grade. The only perk i get is Medical inclded.. Nothing else.. I just see more draw backs.. and given the fact that they still want me to do the same hours i will loose the over time element. and be between £200 and £300 a month worse off!

Time to negotiate!

[Don]

stevieb said:

Time to negotiate!

Losing overtime is often associated with a "management position". It is completely reasonable to check that the perks/salary increase compensate you properly. If you can demonstrate (sheet of paper or spreadsheet) that this "promotion" is actually nothing but? Any reasonable manager will be happy to talk.

Before now I have known people willingly take the pay cut - because it altered their career path - with the promise of a much bigger salary or better opportunities in due course. You should be very clear with your manager that this is your expectation if you do decide not to press for better financial terms.

Personally I believe if you have a talk they'll meet you somewhere in the middle so you don't lose out too badly and also get something you want. Good luck.

[stevieb]

Now looking for pointers/tips for negotiating abetter deal.. Any advice on this subject.. As i do not want to make life difficult for my boss or myself later on..

[Don]

stevieb said:

Now looking for pointers/tips for negotiating abetter deal.. Any advice on this subject.. As i do not want to make life difficult for my boss or myself later on..

Pre-warn your boss you want to discuss things. Try something like "I don't want to make this difficult but I've been looking at the details of what the promotion you've offered me means. It looks to me like I will be worse off financially in the short term. Would you mind discussing this sometime soon - I'd appreciate a chance to review the offer with you to see if this is right and, if so, what can be done about it. Perhaps tomorrow? Next week?"

Set the expectation that

• you want an amicable solution
• you DO expect that a solution is possible
• the current offer DOES have a problem with it - and you want to discuss this

Once it's obvious that the offer will see you worse off I'm sure they'll be willing to discuss matters. Try to get your direct manager on side - he'll then fight your corner with HR...

[Mr POD]

Factor in the likely hood that promised pay and bonuses is likely to be bullste.

I was told : If you take this position (the poisioned chalise promotion) you could get a bonus as high as 20%. (or we could change the way we calculate it and you'll get 2/10th of feck all)


TRUST no one. The here and now that matters. HOW much is going into your bank account and pension after deductions ?

[stevieb]

Many Thanks

I am in a stronger position than most as my work has not been affected by the down turn in the economy. And i am the strongest member of staff they have in a team of 20. This was clearly identified in the Apprasial process recently.


So i am going to factor in a few other bits into this to start the ball rolling! If all fails then i have 2 possibly 3 other job offers on the table so all is not lost!

Edited by stevieb on Monday 7th July 13:34

[tobeee]

If the grades are clearly defined, I wonder why they're offering you a deal that steps out of line with your peers by not giving the car allowance? There might be some HR confusion in the offer they've made, so best to do as Don said and request a meeting with the boss (Don's suggested wording was very good). Good luck.

[stevieb]

Update on this..

They are not budging either way! I have been approached by 2 rival companies withing 6 miles of home, so now thinking of entering into discussions..

But should i be upfront and honest with my current employers about me looking elsewhere or keep quiet and ask for my P45 after i have got the new job?

[Don]

stevieb said:

But should i be upfront and honest with my current employers about me looking elsewhere or keep quiet and ask for my P45 after i have got the new job?

SAY NOTHING until you are holding the formal job offer letter from your new firm in your hands.

And, I would say, don't be tempted by a counter offer...that can work but usually the relationship between you and your firm has been changed forever and it's best not to look back.

Good luck.

[stevieb]

Don said:

stevieb said:

But should i be upfront and honest with my current employers about me looking elsewhere or keep quiet and ask for my P45 after i have got the new job?

SAY NOTHING until you are holding the formal job offer letter from your new firm in your hands.

And, I would say, don't be tempted by a counter offer...that can work but usually the relationship between you and your firm has been changed forever and it's best not to look back.

Good luck.

Counter offer! why not now extremely interest in this as i have accepted a counter offer from them 2 years ago..

[Don]

stevieb said:

Don said:

stevieb said:

But should i be upfront and honest with my current employers about me looking elsewhere or keep quiet and ask for my P45 after i have got the new job?

SAY NOTHING until you are holding the formal job offer letter from your new firm in your hands.

And, I would say, don't be tempted by a counter offer...that can work but usually the relationship between you and your firm has been changed forever and it's best not to look back.

Good luck.

Counter offer! why not now extremely interest in this as i have accepted a counter offer from them 2 years ago..

Well OK, then! I've seen it go wrong, though.

[JustinP1]

Don said:

stevieb said:

But should i be upfront and honest with my current employers about me looking elsewhere or keep quiet and ask for my P45 after i have got the new job?

SAY NOTHING until you are holding the formal job offer letter from your new firm in your hands.

And, I would say, don't be tempted by a counter offer...that can work but usually the relationship between you and your firm has been changed forever and it's best not to look back.

Good luck.

My tact would actually be open to the employer - as an employer myself that is what I would appreciate.

If an employee tells me openly a factor of their employment that they or not happy with I have always looked to help.

I would be honest with the employer and say that you are reluctant to accept the promotion because of XY and Z. Even if that factor is money you can in a roundabout way say that with inflation fuel costs, expensive missus at home etc etc, you are looking for a higher salary. In return you will accept the promotion and we can move on.

Tell them that you understand if for whatever reason that this is impossible, but you would appreciate knowing either way.

That, in a veiled way does the job. They either value you and get the hint, and bingo. On the other hand they think you are not as valuable, but at least you have given them the chance.

One of my best mates has just been in a similar situation. He was open with his employer in that relative positions for his seniority get a lot more. I think he asked to go from £28k to £36. They gave him £31k.

This week he has moved to a company down the road for £41k plus car and other stuff. No bad feeling to anyone. The employer may have a set value for you above which you will not earn more above. The sooner you find this out, thw quicker you can both move on.

[stevieb]

The situation has probably got quite sour! The director has emailed me asking for overtime etc.

And a comment included in there was when do you do this and what get achived? I took this as him queestioning my integrity, as did my boss.

At this point i have lost all of the respect i had for him, Now another director wants to sit down with me tomorrow and go through what has happened. etc.

I am not asking for the earth, i am asking for the same salary as other people at that grade within my office.

I am in a good position as the other 3 people who are on the same grade as my promotion grade are not working on the same scale projects as i am .. My project is worth in excess of £1 Million in fees over 12 monts, where as the others have smaller projects of value of around 10k per month. My team covers 2 offices and 20 staff. The others have only themselves and a graduate to look after.

I personally feel i am operating far better than others int he office and deserve the same salary as them. Even though i am working on other initatives within the offices to keep the costs down.

I feel that i should gain a little reward back for these either as a bonus or a renumeration package.

I am currently sat on the fence if i should tell them i am seeking employment elsewhere or just give them my resignation. My industry is not really linked to the economic downturn luckily so that can not be used against me.

Its the comments from the director that have pissed me off to start looking elsewhere otherwise i may of just shut up and declined the promotion in the short term, as they offered to suspend it for 6 month pending review later on

[edb49]

Nasty situation. It sounds like a man at the top doesn't think you're doing good work. This is pretty unlikely to change, regardless of what work you are or aren't doing. I'd advise to apply for jobs elsewhere, and once you've got an offer you can let your current employer know.

[stevieb]

Hmm.. Been thinking about this for a week now since i got the email thorugh.. Need to sort this and quickly!

[mcflurry]

stevieb said:

The situation has probably got quite sour! The director has emailed me asking for overtime etc.

Maybe that's so he can revise the package, or to know his numbers?

[stevieb]

mcflurry said:

stevieb said:

The situation has probably got quite sour! The director has emailed me asking for overtime etc.

Maybe that's so he can revise the package, or to know his numbers?

In the same email was a comment as follows

And a comment included in there was when do you do this and what get achived? I took this as him queestioning my integrity, as did my boss.

[JamieBeeston]

If, as you said above you've already accepted a counter offer some years back, it may well be there is simply bad blood / an irrational dislike for you from a director.. as such nothing much you can do will dissuade them from this feeling..

As others have said, explore the two rival offers.. what have you got to lose? Seriously?