Bar/Pub/Club - New business
Discussion
A friend and I have been talking about opening a bar for years now. It would be a slightly more upmarket type of place, live music, good beer etc; added value as it were so the prices can be that little bit higher.
I used to work in a similar place at Uni and on a Saturday night we'd take about £3k. How much of that would have been profit?
In terms of financing a business, what is a realistic figure that you could expect from a bank. Neither of us are home owners so I guess this could cause problems?
Thanks,
Ben
I used to work in a similar place at Uni and on a Saturday night we'd take about £3k. How much of that would have been profit?
In terms of financing a business, what is a realistic figure that you could expect from a bank. Neither of us are home owners so I guess this could cause problems?
Thanks,
Ben
ywouldi said:
A friend and I have been talking about opening a bar for years now. It would be a slightly more upmarket type of place, live music, good beer etc; added value as it were so the prices can be that little bit higher.
I used to work in a similar place at Uni and on a Saturday night we'd take about £3k. How much of that would have been profit?
In terms of financing a business, what is a realistic figure that you could expect from a bank. Neither of us are home owners so I guess this could cause problems?
Thanks,
Ben
I'd echo the above comments. Some of my local upmarket bars are still doing very well - But you can tell it's largely propped up by the credit card brigade by spending a few minutes in one.I used to work in a similar place at Uni and on a Saturday night we'd take about £3k. How much of that would have been profit?
In terms of financing a business, what is a realistic figure that you could expect from a bank. Neither of us are home owners so I guess this could cause problems?
Thanks,
Ben
What I'd concentrate on is offering real value for money. Take over a grotty but friendly pub, clean it up, get a good chef in that can actually cook with fresh local ingredients. Don't charge the earth for your food... use it as a hook to sell more drinks.
Have a comfy bar that encourages chatting rather than music and football. Serve free snacks on the bar.
I've always wanted to run a pub but it's not the right time
Go for it. what do you have to lose?
Yeah, the timing is pretty poor I must admit. Only exploring the options at the moment. I'd always thought that pubs were meant to recession proof; people drowning their problems and all that!
We'd also explore abroad, there are some good looking places for sales in the alps, make a reasonable living and have a great lifestyle.
Rich, how did you find financing a start-up. I guess that a business loan is pretty difficult to get, especially in the region of £100k. Saw your comments in another thread and a taxi firms looks pretty interesting but I guess it's all about finding the right place to be. Would you agree?
We'd also explore abroad, there are some good looking places for sales in the alps, make a reasonable living and have a great lifestyle.
Rich, how did you find financing a start-up. I guess that a business loan is pretty difficult to get, especially in the region of £100k. Saw your comments in another thread and a taxi firms looks pretty interesting but I guess it's all about finding the right place to be. Would you agree?
2 years ago I was told that with a cast iron business plan we might get lucky and go 1 third capital 2 thirds loan from the bank for a leasehold. Some banks just aren't interested whatsover in bars though. I seem to remember Lloyds being one of them.
Roughly speaking (and possibly slightly out of date due to escalating beer prices and food input prices) you'd be looking at a gross margin on beer of 50% and more on spirits and 75-90% on food. It would all depend on the nature of your brewery tie and discount etc.
From your gross profit you then have to pay rent, licences, staff, insurance, heat/lighting/water, taxes/rates, loan repayments. Some of those are reasonably controllable/flexibile/negotiatble, some are set in stone.
IMHO 'upmarket' bars in areas that don't have recession proof inhabitants are in for a rough ride. I'm hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence of even celeb hangouts in London (Mahiki, Chinawhites etc) letting pretty much anyone in these days.
Roughly speaking (and possibly slightly out of date due to escalating beer prices and food input prices) you'd be looking at a gross margin on beer of 50% and more on spirits and 75-90% on food. It would all depend on the nature of your brewery tie and discount etc.
From your gross profit you then have to pay rent, licences, staff, insurance, heat/lighting/water, taxes/rates, loan repayments. Some of those are reasonably controllable/flexibile/negotiatble, some are set in stone.
IMHO 'upmarket' bars in areas that don't have recession proof inhabitants are in for a rough ride. I'm hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence of even celeb hangouts in London (Mahiki, Chinawhites etc) letting pretty much anyone in these days.
eyebeebe said:
2 years ago I was told that with a cast iron business plan we might get lucky and go 1 third capital 2 thirds loan from the bank for a leasehold. Some banks just aren't interested whatsover in bars though. I seem to remember Lloyds being one of them.
Roughly speaking (and possibly slightly out of date due to escalating beer prices and food input prices) you'd be looking at a gross margin on beer of 50% and more on spirits and 75-90% on food. It would all depend on the nature of your brewery tie and discount etc.
From your gross profit you then have to pay rent, licences, staff, insurance, heat/lighting/water, taxes/rates, loan repayments. Some of those are reasonably controllable/flexibile/negotiatble, some are set in stone.
IMHO 'upmarket' bars in areas that don't have recession proof inhabitants are in for a rough ride. I'm hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence of even celeb hangouts in London (Mahiki, Chinawhites etc) letting pretty much anyone in these days.
Those margins are pretty much what I expected, which is good I guess. We'd certainly be no Mahiki! Just a nice place with good beer and good atmosphere which would hopefully attract slightly more affluent customers willing to pay that extra 50p a pint.Roughly speaking (and possibly slightly out of date due to escalating beer prices and food input prices) you'd be looking at a gross margin on beer of 50% and more on spirits and 75-90% on food. It would all depend on the nature of your brewery tie and discount etc.
From your gross profit you then have to pay rent, licences, staff, insurance, heat/lighting/water, taxes/rates, loan repayments. Some of those are reasonably controllable/flexibile/negotiatble, some are set in stone.
IMHO 'upmarket' bars in areas that don't have recession proof inhabitants are in for a rough ride. I'm hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence of even celeb hangouts in London (Mahiki, Chinawhites etc) letting pretty much anyone in these days.
Some good points here everyone, thanks.
I would imagine that most people who have the dream of running their own pub think that they could have the differentiator that will make them £££'s.
I'd be extremely wary - a bar is going to have massive overheads, and could sap up a fortune of cash before it (if ever) makes money - and that fortune of debt you will have to repay no matter what.
The best bars near me tend to be owned by consortiums that specialise in this field. I'd say you'd have to be extremely lucky to, with no previous experience, jump in and turn around a pub from loss making into something worthwhile, whilst not going under in the process.
I'd be extremely wary - a bar is going to have massive overheads, and could sap up a fortune of cash before it (if ever) makes money - and that fortune of debt you will have to repay no matter what.
The best bars near me tend to be owned by consortiums that specialise in this field. I'd say you'd have to be extremely lucky to, with no previous experience, jump in and turn around a pub from loss making into something worthwhile, whilst not going under in the process.
ywouldi said:
Yeah, the timing is pretty poor I must admit. Only exploring the options at the moment. I'd always thought that pubs were meant to recession proof; people drowning their problems and all that!
We'd also explore abroad, there are some good looking places for sales in the alps, make a reasonable living and have a great lifestyle.
Rich, how did you find financing a start-up. I guess that a business loan is pretty difficult to get, especially in the region of £100k. Saw your comments in another thread and a taxi firms looks pretty interesting but I guess it's all about finding the right place to be. Would you agree?
Feel free to drop me an email. I'm exploring the possibility of franchising into other counties We'd also explore abroad, there are some good looking places for sales in the alps, make a reasonable living and have a great lifestyle.
Rich, how did you find financing a start-up. I guess that a business loan is pretty difficult to get, especially in the region of £100k. Saw your comments in another thread and a taxi firms looks pretty interesting but I guess it's all about finding the right place to be. Would you agree?
) in central Brighton with almost 8000 sq ft and a late licence on the market at the mo, if you're interested 
Exigeowner said:
Fubar wasnt you or your place on TV a few years back ?
Quite possibly the place. The former tenants alledgedly had a hand in bringing Mike Tyson to our hallowed shores when he fought here a few years back. And for their promo stuff the had a 'meet and greet' with him in this bar, and the press/TV where around.I met him briefly. What a boring
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