SHARP lid tests and Arai...
Discussion
In a moment of mad 'I want to have some fun again' craziness I bought a bike today. It is well used, but a bit of a bargain and just what I fancied after a while off two wheels (passed my test 10 years ago) - a CBR600 F4, with the all important comfy pillion seat and grab rail for my girlfriend, who loves coming along (I tried to get her onto her own bike, she's done her CBT and theory test but the momentum to do all the tests stopped when she stacked it in her CBT, the bike fell on top of her and gave her a load of bruising. She jumped back on and passed the CBT eventually but got 'the fear' - funnily enough she has no fear when riding pillion).
I could do with some new kit, so I'm also looking at getting a new lid. I've always bought Arai helmets - when I got my first bike they were the only top brand that fitted perfectly, every Arai I've had has been a perfect, comfortable fit - and with the old cliché 'buy a £50 helmet if you've got a £50 head' in my mind, there's the reassurance of high price.
However I've just read these SHARP government lid tests and Arai don't fare very well. In fact for the full 5 stars it sounds like I ought to buy a Lazer LZ6 for £60.
WTF? I'm immediately suspicious of anything classed as 'government testing' or 'safety' because this government are a bunch of incompetent liars and I certainly wouldn't trust them with my road safety. Anyone know what the real deal is? If I hadn't come across the MCN page whilst searching for deals, I wouldn't know about these new tests and would be merrily buying another Arai tomorrow morning before picking up the new bike - now I'm confused as hell.
Assuming these cheaper brands fit me well, are these test figures worth basing a purchasing decision on? For reference, I normally choose a plain silver or white helmet, I'm not bothered about fancy paintwork, just visibility and quality. The tiger ears and tail can be added later, you see.
I could do with some new kit, so I'm also looking at getting a new lid. I've always bought Arai helmets - when I got my first bike they were the only top brand that fitted perfectly, every Arai I've had has been a perfect, comfortable fit - and with the old cliché 'buy a £50 helmet if you've got a £50 head' in my mind, there's the reassurance of high price.
However I've just read these SHARP government lid tests and Arai don't fare very well. In fact for the full 5 stars it sounds like I ought to buy a Lazer LZ6 for £60.
WTF? I'm immediately suspicious of anything classed as 'government testing' or 'safety' because this government are a bunch of incompetent liars and I certainly wouldn't trust them with my road safety. Anyone know what the real deal is? If I hadn't come across the MCN page whilst searching for deals, I wouldn't know about these new tests and would be merrily buying another Arai tomorrow morning before picking up the new bike - now I'm confused as hell.
Assuming these cheaper brands fit me well, are these test figures worth basing a purchasing decision on? For reference, I normally choose a plain silver or white helmet, I'm not bothered about fancy paintwork, just visibility and quality. The tiger ears and tail can be added later, you see.
I remember when the first Euro NCAP results were published and there were some surprises as to which cars got good ratings and which didn’t. Many manufacturers then said that the tests were inappropriate and irrelevant. Surprisingly, these were the manufacturers who scored badly! Many car owners also agreed that the tests were inappropriate and irrelevant but, again, these tended to be the owners of cars that scored badly. 
As we all know now, car manufactures now strive to get 5 stars for their cars and many customers will have their model choice seriously influenced by the star rating system. As a result overall safety in cars has improved dramatically. (This has much more to do with KSI statistics than speed cameras – but that’s a different debate!) I expect crash helmets will do something very similar.
As we all know now, car manufactures now strive to get 5 stars for their cars and many customers will have their model choice seriously influenced by the star rating system. As a result overall safety in cars has improved dramatically. (This has much more to do with KSI statistics than speed cameras – but that’s a different debate!) I expect crash helmets will do something very similar.
There is an article discussing the merit of these revised tests in Ride this month. Arai basically stated they dont believe the new tests are representative of damage that occurs in real world situations. I've no idea if they are just trying to protect their market or not mind.
<- Wearer of a 2 star Arai Condor.
<- Wearer of a 2 star Arai Condor.
shouldbworking said:
There is an article discussing the merit of these revised tests in Ride this month. Arai basically stated they dont believe the new tests are representative of damage that occurs in real world situations. I've no idea if they are just trying to protect their market or not mind.
<- Wearer of a 2 star Arai Condor.
I read a similar article in BIKE. I think the furore is due to the way the scores are totted up. The final fomula is a closely guarded secret and seems to add arbitrary weightings.<- Wearer of a 2 star Arai Condor.
Aubrey said:
You should see Rossi's Lid, he's got this really nice £60 helmet, but it's ok, it's got 5 stars 
On this note, does anyone know how the spec of the helmets supplied to MotoGP/Superbike riders compares with the 'replicas'? The marketing would have you believe that your RX7 is the same helmet that Colin Edwards is wearing or the TechTi you've just bought is the same that protects Rossi, but is that true?This one has been done a few times.. Personally Arai don't fit my head so no matter what they are a no go for me.
Safety wise i think any of the ones that have faired reasonably well will protect your head fine in a crash..
I recon the likes of Shoei and Arai you do pay a premium for the brand (like Sony televisions etc) but its up to you to decide if the additional quality / design is worth the extra cash..
Safety wise i think any of the ones that have faired reasonably well will protect your head fine in a crash..
I recon the likes of Shoei and Arai you do pay a premium for the brand (like Sony televisions etc) but its up to you to decide if the additional quality / design is worth the extra cash..
Funny how everyone who slates these tests own an arai, aint that funny?
Fact is the helmet is tested for impact, in most areas including side impact which arai dont agree with, on the track fair enough, but we ride on roads, with lots of objects we could hit side on, cars, kurbs,sign poles, all bloody sorts.
These helmet tests are good news, arai users hate it because they just wasted 500 pound to look like haga.
Fact is the helmet is tested for impact, in most areas including side impact which arai dont agree with, on the track fair enough, but we ride on roads, with lots of objects we could hit side on, cars, kurbs,sign poles, all bloody sorts.
These helmet tests are good news, arai users hate it because they just wasted 500 pound to look like haga.
FeatherZ said:
Funny how everyone who slates these tests own an arai, aint that funny?
Fact is the helmet is tested for impact, in most areas including side impact which arai dont agree with, on the track fair enough, but we ride on roads, with lots of objects we could hit side on, cars, kurbs,sign poles, all bloody sorts.
These helmet tests are good news, arai users hate it because they just wasted 500 pound to look like haga.
Look, I'm basing my facts on personal experience's, on road and track over the last 27 years.Fact is the helmet is tested for impact, in most areas including side impact which arai dont agree with, on the track fair enough, but we ride on roads, with lots of objects we could hit side on, cars, kurbs,sign poles, all bloody sorts.
These helmet tests are good news, arai users hate it because they just wasted 500 pound to look like haga.
I made a hole in a dry stone wall 4 years ago, which left the top of my Arai crushed and cracked.
You can say what you want, but I'm not putting my trust in a £60 helmet.
I can't speak for people who wear £500 Haga replica's, as I wear plain Black ones.
£330 for a plain Black RX7 Corsair, and £190 for the SV.
I'm more than happy with my choice.
Okey cokey, it's not clear whether the tests really do mean that Arai helmets fare poorly in certain types of accident, since if the government are keeping the actual formula used to convert the various quantitative measurements into a dumbed-down 'star' system secret, then AFAIAC it is worthless.
Arai lids fit my head particularly well and are very comfortable, so on the basis that good fit is more important than 'government arbitrary stars', I've just bought another Arai. Plain silver as they didn't have white, as I like people to be able to see me...
The comparison with the NCAP ratings is interesting though. Do NCAP publish their methodology and measurements transparently, so no car manufacturer can argue with the results? The way the helmet ratings have been put together smacks of inexperience, as the 'secret formula' allows each manufacturer to claim 'special circumstances' and we end up with *more* confusion than when we started.
Damn government, if only the figures and calculations were completely transparent.
Arai lids fit my head particularly well and are very comfortable, so on the basis that good fit is more important than 'government arbitrary stars', I've just bought another Arai. Plain silver as they didn't have white, as I like people to be able to see me...
The comparison with the NCAP ratings is interesting though. Do NCAP publish their methodology and measurements transparently, so no car manufacturer can argue with the results? The way the helmet ratings have been put together smacks of inexperience, as the 'secret formula' allows each manufacturer to claim 'special circumstances' and we end up with *more* confusion than when we started.
Damn government, if only the figures and calculations were completely transparent.
cyberface said:
The comparison with the NCAP ratings is interesting though. Do NCAP publish their methodology and measurements transparently, so no car manufacturer can argue with the results? The way the helmet ratings have been put together smacks of inexperience, as the 'secret formula' allows each manufacturer to claim 'special circumstances' and we end up with *more* confusion than when we started.
I’m not sure if NCAP publish exactly how they convert the results of a crash onto a star rating but I do remember the big moans and groans from various quarters as to how ‘irrelevant’ it was to run half the car into a concrete block at 30mph. Manufacturers stated that they had never known any of their cars be involved in a ‘real world’ accident like that and model owners stated that their car had crashed head on into another at 60mph and they were still alive which proved conclusively that the model deserved 5 stars!These sound so much like the arguments that are being made against SHARP helmet testing. I’ll bet that Arai helmet owners and old Volvo owners never knew they had so much in common!!!
The key point to remember is that the helmet you are wearing is no more or no less protective than it was yesterday and yesterday it was fine. If you are buying a new helmet then it will be a good idea to take the star rating into account as long as fit and features meet your requirements. Over time, (like cars with NCAP) this will only produce safer and better helmets for everyone!
Superbike magazine also have an article on the SHARP tests in this month's issue - the main problem with the tests from their point of view was that the impact tests are always performed on a specific part of the helmet, rather than a random one; allowing manufacturers to strengthen that part purely to gain a five star rating.
I have a £500 Shoei which I'm very pleased with - very comfortable, light and good ventilation. I was thinking about the SHARP tests when I was riding earlier actually.
I have the philosophy of "buy the best you can afford" when it comes to protective gear. I spent a big chunk of cash on my leathers as well.
Where I am going with this is that I can't see why spending so little on a helmet is a good idea - £60 is nothing when it comes to such an important piece of equipment, some corners must have been cut somewhere. If I had said I'd spent £60 on leathers, you'd probably think I'm barking and tell me that they wouldn't survive a spill - so why is £60 OK for a helmet?
Cheap, reliable or safe. Pick any two.
All just MHO of course
Soss
I have a £500 Shoei which I'm very pleased with - very comfortable, light and good ventilation. I was thinking about the SHARP tests when I was riding earlier actually.
I have the philosophy of "buy the best you can afford" when it comes to protective gear. I spent a big chunk of cash on my leathers as well.
Where I am going with this is that I can't see why spending so little on a helmet is a good idea - £60 is nothing when it comes to such an important piece of equipment, some corners must have been cut somewhere. If I had said I'd spent £60 on leathers, you'd probably think I'm barking and tell me that they wouldn't survive a spill - so why is £60 OK for a helmet?
Cheap, reliable or safe. Pick any two.
All just MHO of course
Soss
I suspect the Sharp ratings are at best suspect, if you've got a £60 head buy the £60 (5 star) helmet, I'll stick with my (3 star) Arai.
Arai (and others) have been in the helmet business for a long time and have built a reputation based on quality and backed up by experts, crashes and facts, I trust their judgement more than some new testing facility that appears to have the backing of our illustrious Government.
Question is do you trust a company who have a long standing, world leading & hard earned reputation in helmet manufacture or some Nu-labour job-creation 'safety-by-numbers' agency?
Arai (and others) have been in the helmet business for a long time and have built a reputation based on quality and backed up by experts, crashes and facts, I trust their judgement more than some new testing facility that appears to have the backing of our illustrious Government.
Question is do you trust a company who have a long standing, world leading & hard earned reputation in helmet manufacture or some Nu-labour job-creation 'safety-by-numbers' agency?
Edited by catso on Sunday 3rd August 00:16
catso said:
I suspect the Sharp ratings are at best suspect, if you've got a £60 head buy the £60 (5 star) helmet, I'll stick with my (3 star) Arai.
Arai (and others) have been in the helmet business for a long time and have built a reputation based on quality and backed up by experts, crashes and facts, I trust their judgement more than some new testing facility that appears to have the backing of our illustrious Government.
Question is do you trust a company who have a long standing, world leading & hard earned reputation in helmet manufacture or some Nu-labour job-creation 'safety-by-numbers' agency?
There's a lot to be said for big name companies who spend a bit more on marketing (and hopefully R&D) who have a reputation at stake. But despite this, I suspect Arai would be lauding SHARP in all their marketing literature if they had scored 5 stars.Arai (and others) have been in the helmet business for a long time and have built a reputation based on quality and backed up by experts, crashes and facts, I trust their judgement more than some new testing facility that appears to have the backing of our illustrious Government.
Question is do you trust a company who have a long standing, world leading & hard earned reputation in helmet manufacture or some Nu-labour job-creation 'safety-by-numbers' agency?
Edited by catso on Sunday 3rd August 00:16
I actually prefer the reputation of an independent body who can prove that their testing is realistic, unbiased, and thorough in assessing the virtues of any helmet. I'm not saying SHARP is, but then again I don't think any of us can say it isn't either... and I certainly have no reason at the moment to not believe what SHARP say.
My concern with all this is that im not disputing Arai lids are very comfortable (well for my brother anyway as they dont fit me.. 
) and i certainly agree buying the best lid you can afford as you only get one head.
I have no concern about paying 2 3 4 500 quid for a helmet as long as the money is actually paying for a safer 'lid' and not just a brand name..
What i want to know (and i've not got a difinitive answer yet) is, in a accident, is a £500 Arai or Shoei really going to protect my head better than a £150 AGV or HJC or other cheaper 'gold star' rated helmet?
) and i certainly agree buying the best lid you can afford as you only get one head.I have no concern about paying 2 3 4 500 quid for a helmet as long as the money is actually paying for a safer 'lid' and not just a brand name..
What i want to know (and i've not got a difinitive answer yet) is, in a accident, is a £500 Arai or Shoei really going to protect my head better than a £150 AGV or HJC or other cheaper 'gold star' rated helmet?
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