Road alternatives to Pagid RS29s
Discussion
I currently run RS29s in the Brembo front calipers of my M3 Evo.
Absolutely incredible on track but on the road the squeal is starting to grate. Anti-squeal shims have made some difference but they are still quite bad.
I'm not a particularly hard road driver and I think the answer is to save the Pagids for track work, and invest in an alternative for the road.
Requirements are
- Performance from cold
- No squeal
- Reasonably priced (Pagids were ~£220)
The compromise is that I'm not too worried about fade on the road because I don't expect to get them too hot.
Ideas?
Leaning towards an OEM BMW pad but are there any other options?
Mintex extreme sadly no longer available and DS2500s probably a bit steep given the application. Planning to stay away from refitting the EBC yellows that I have sitting in the garage too...
Absolutely incredible on track but on the road the squeal is starting to grate. Anti-squeal shims have made some difference but they are still quite bad.
I'm not a particularly hard road driver and I think the answer is to save the Pagids for track work, and invest in an alternative for the road.
Requirements are
- Performance from cold
- No squeal
- Reasonably priced (Pagids were ~£220)
The compromise is that I'm not too worried about fade on the road because I don't expect to get them too hot.
Ideas?
Leaning towards an OEM BMW pad but are there any other options?
Mintex extreme sadly no longer available and DS2500s probably a bit steep given the application. Planning to stay away from refitting the EBC yellows that I have sitting in the garage too...
I think you've just answered your own question.
Any performance pad will squeel. It's the trade-off you get for fitting pads that can cope with track work.
IME the Pagid pads are the best on the market. On track they are utterly resilient but tend to be a tad too aggressive for the road.
On the other hand, I've never had any fade issues with the OEM pads on the road. They are utterly useless on the track, but to be getting fade on the road is perhaps a sign that enthusiasm levels are little high anyway (not that I mean to preach). Moreover, on the assumption that you're running braided hoses and decent fluid (and I'm guessing 8-series brake calipers), then you should have more than enough stopping power with OEM pads.
Personally, brake squeel doesn't bother me, but on the basis that swapping the pads for the track is a half hour job tops, OEM is really your best option IMO.
Any performance pad will squeel. It's the trade-off you get for fitting pads that can cope with track work.
IME the Pagid pads are the best on the market. On track they are utterly resilient but tend to be a tad too aggressive for the road.
On the other hand, I've never had any fade issues with the OEM pads on the road. They are utterly useless on the track, but to be getting fade on the road is perhaps a sign that enthusiasm levels are little high anyway (not that I mean to preach). Moreover, on the assumption that you're running braided hoses and decent fluid (and I'm guessing 8-series brake calipers), then you should have more than enough stopping power with OEM pads.
Personally, brake squeel doesn't bother me, but on the basis that swapping the pads for the track is a half hour job tops, OEM is really your best option IMO.
Those pads only start to squeal when you've been using them 'gently' for a while - ie, 'normal' road driving. To stop them squealing just perform something like the bed-in procedure again (build the heat up, give them some bigish stops, cool etc). That'll make them quiet for a few weeks. Repeat whenever they get noisey. That's what I've been doing for years, and it's far more convenient than changing the pads.
E36GUY said:
EBC Yellow stuff is what I have fitted. Works just as good as OEM from cold on the road but are built for endurance on the track and I've found them to be great. EBC have an anti-squeel coating. Not a peep out of mine.
I have used three sets of EBC pads over the years; one red and two yellow.Red crumbled to death fairly quickly so fitted Yellow and ran them for a while. Despite Yellow being worse on the road that OEM pads (for me at least, seems that your experience differs from mine) I ran them anyway. Until the next track day that is where they faded and put me into a gravel trap at Donington Park. It was at this point that I decided that EBC Yellowstuff, for me, were neither suited to the road because they weren't great from cold nor were they suited to the track because I could get them to fade.
Obviously everybody is different - on the road I am generally very sedate and do lots of motorway work where working from cold is crucial. On the track I drive fairly hard and run sticky Yokos which have a tendency to put more heat into the brakes...
ASBO said:
I think you've just answered your own question.
Any performance pad will squeel. It's the trade-off you get for fitting pads that can cope with track work.
IME the Pagid pads are the best on the market. On track they are utterly resilient but tend to be a tad too aggressive for the road.
On the other hand, I've never had any fade issues with the OEM pads on the road. They are utterly useless on the track, but to be getting fade on the road is perhaps a sign that enthusiasm levels are little high anyway (not that I mean to preach). Moreover, on the assumption that you're running braided hoses and decent fluid (and I'm guessing 8-series brake calipers), then you should have more than enough stopping power with OEM pads.
Personally, brake squeel doesn't bother me, but on the basis that swapping the pads for the track is a half hour job tops, OEM is really your best option IMO.
Think your experience and mine is pretty much bang on. Definitely leaning towards the dealer for a set of road pads.Any performance pad will squeel. It's the trade-off you get for fitting pads that can cope with track work.
IME the Pagid pads are the best on the market. On track they are utterly resilient but tend to be a tad too aggressive for the road.
On the other hand, I've never had any fade issues with the OEM pads on the road. They are utterly useless on the track, but to be getting fade on the road is perhaps a sign that enthusiasm levels are little high anyway (not that I mean to preach). Moreover, on the assumption that you're running braided hoses and decent fluid (and I'm guessing 8-series brake calipers), then you should have more than enough stopping power with OEM pads.
Personally, brake squeel doesn't bother me, but on the basis that swapping the pads for the track is a half hour job tops, OEM is really your best option IMO.
I think what I am after is something like the Pagid Fast Road compound that was made a few years back. Fairly soft but superb at road temperatures with no noise. Dust was the only trade off for the performance, and of course faster wear.
Circa £60 IIRC although that was on a MK2 Golf...
MrOnTheRopes said:
Those pads only start to squeal when you've been using them 'gently' for a while - ie, 'normal' road driving. To stop them squealing just perform something like the bed-in procedure again (build the heat up, give them some bigish stops, cool etc). That'll make them quiet for a few weeks. Repeat whenever they get noisey. That's what I've been doing for years, and it's far more convenient than changing the pads.
Pretty much same experience again although mine seem to make more noise than other cars. Not sure whether the design of my caliper is to blame - they are a lot more mobile in the caliper than a sliding piston setup although I can't tell whether you are running something similar.It's that 'driving through town and pulling up at a set of traffic lights' that is the killer...
breezy said:
MrOnTheRopes said:
Those pads only start to squeal when you've been using them 'gently' for a while - ie, 'normal' road driving. To stop them squealing just perform something like the bed-in procedure again (build the heat up, give them some bigish stops, cool etc). That'll make them quiet for a few weeks. Repeat whenever they get noisey. That's what I've been doing for years, and it's far more convenient than changing the pads.
Pretty much same experience again although mine seem to make more noise than other cars. Not sure whether the design of my caliper is to blame - they are a lot more mobile in the caliper than a sliding piston setup although I can't tell whether you are running something similar.It's that 'driving through town and pulling up at a set of traffic lights' that is the killer...
If I leave the pads to become noisey then they get REALLY bad - I mean, horribly bad!
You can kill dogs with the noiseFunny thing is the more you try to avoid it (with less brake pressure) the worse it seems to get
Mines do exactly the same. Even though the pads are only 6 months old and havent had any excess braking at all. Going to try that "bedding" when i get back to the uk though. I have noticed it only squeals at a certain point when i press the brakes. A little harder and there fine. Still having loads of problems with brake dust though. Seems way to much. Looks a lot worse on the sunflower alloys because of the rim
For proper procedure on bedding in brakes, have a look at http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
I wouldn't touch EBC with a barge pole, nearly killed myself at brands with a set many years ago, chucked them straight in the bin and that's what you should do, cheap cheap nasty crap. your best bet is simply to fit OEM and then swap to Pagid's before you track and then swap back again, or if that's too much hassle then put up with the squealing
Thought it might be worth updating this.
Went to Euro Car Parts on the weekend and stumped up a little less than £80 for a set of ATE pads front and rear. ATE are a similar quality alternative to the factory fit Textars according to ECP.
Result?
Incredible road manners. Perhaps not quite the bite of the RS29s but far, far, far superior in terms of the package when taking into account noise. From cold the performance isn't actually that far off!
As an aside, it's amazing how quickly you learn to tolerate the compromises of performance parts (suspension, low profile rubber, brakes, etc etc). Been doing it for years - the factory pads have made a refreshing change!
Pagids back in the box - to be fitted in minutes for trackdy action...
Went to Euro Car Parts on the weekend and stumped up a little less than £80 for a set of ATE pads front and rear. ATE are a similar quality alternative to the factory fit Textars according to ECP.
Result?
Incredible road manners. Perhaps not quite the bite of the RS29s but far, far, far superior in terms of the package when taking into account noise. From cold the performance isn't actually that far off!
As an aside, it's amazing how quickly you learn to tolerate the compromises of performance parts (suspension, low profile rubber, brakes, etc etc). Been doing it for years - the factory pads have made a refreshing change!
Pagids back in the box - to be fitted in minutes for trackdy action...
Edited by breezy on Monday 1st September 15:32
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