The CanAm's First Track Day
Discussion
This weekend was the CanAm's first and second last track day. Next month in St.Louis at the "Run and Gun" will be the last.
http://home.comcast.net/~rosenracing5/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-957761.html
Why only 2 track days? Well, with 2 other racing cars to use it doesn't make any sense to beat up, or risk damage to the CanAm which also has a much higher value, and a much higher repair rate.
Besides SCCA, I also belong to a time trial club called COMSCC.
http://users.rcn.com/comscc/
This club has to date 525 members, been in existance for 45 years, and we currently have 8 events during the year at 5 tracks which include world famous tracks such as Watkins Glen, Mosport, and Lime Rock. Our home track is the road course at New Hampshire International Speedway which is the host of 2 Winston Cup races each year on the oval. And that's where we are.
This is a VERY competative club and I have been fortunate enough the last two years to win the championship in my class. It looked like I have enough points this year with the F2000 after 5 events to be able to bring the CanAm out and try it. That leaves me the 2 last events to make up the lost points in the class.
Impressions and notes.
Between practice laps and the timed competition, we probably did about 65 laps, close to 100 miles.
Mechanical problems:
1. Probably started off with water level low, and overheated after the first ten laps. Blew out a lot of water from the overheating. Once topped up to correct level, never had problem again. Added water once more, about a quart. Air temp averaged about 75' F.
2. Rear tires are too close to front of wheelwell, only about 1/2" clearance. Bodywork in front of tire is solid black from pickup rubber. Not looking forward to cleaning that mess. Factory did body fit. We used their holes when installing body. Only possible cure we see is to change position of rear upright with new spacers so that the top of the upright moves rearward. That might only be about 1/4" at the wheel, but it will help.
3. The portion of the front clip that lowers down and positions itself behind the front wheels is damaged at the bottom on both sides from pickup rubber.
4. Max engine temp we saw after initial problem was 187' F.
5. Max oil temp was 184'
6. No loss of oil pressure in turns.
Wet sump, winged oil pan with flaps, 9 quarts (US) of oil, oil cooler. Did not have to add any oil.
7. No loss of fuel pressure. Individual pickup in each tank, going to a "T", and both feeding a single high pressure fuel pump for the EFI. No loss or surging under braking, cornering or acceleration. Engine ran perfectly. Fuel level was never lower than 3.5 gallons (US). -10 interconnect hose between tanks.
8. Gearbox (G50 modified with heavier side plate, cooling, and pressure lubrication) temp. never higher than 147'F. No need to turn on cooling pump.
Setup:
Cold tire pressure (Pirelli P Zero Rossos) 16 front, 18 cold. This went up about 2 pounds when hot. Tire wear appears minimal.
Only ran 1.2 degrees neg. camber at front, rather than 1.5. Will change that for St.Louis to 1.6 (can't get 1.5).
Rear is .5 negative camber.
Shocks
Rears. Half way on settings
Fronts. Started out half way, softened about 6 licks to try and help understeer. Very slight improvement in times. Not sure if that was the reason.
Handling:
As I expected, massive understeer, especially with street tires at the front. Knowing this, and knowing that this track is very unforgiving to off track excursions, we did not push the car in critical areas. Track tires would probably save 8 seconds on the 1.5 mile track. There are 2 low speed turns the car simply would not turn at because of pushing. The layout we were using, uses turns 1 and 2 of the oval, and pushing into the wall at 100+ didn't interest me, so conservation was in order. Unlike most English tracks I've seen, half of NHIS has drastic elevation changes once you leave the oval. The car handled very well on these turns, despite the street tires. The reason NHIS can have the elevation changes is because turn 3 crosses the track and you go outside the oval, up a hill, then a roller coaster ride before you return to the oval.
http://users.rcn.com/comscc/tracks/nhis.html
Oversteer was never a problem.
Visibility:
The distorion at the top of the small windscreen was not a problem since you're looking over it. My concern had been about seeing something close. No problem there. Ted had mentioned that he tended to sit higher and closer on the track. I used a couple of pieces of foam to sit on, but found my calf was hitting the bottom of the steering wheel especially when rocking my foot on the brake and gas pedal. Removed one of the foam pieces, and still saw OK.
Brakes:
Straight and true, but needed a lot of pressure which was really a problem when coming into turn 3 where you're braking from well over 100 mph down to about 40 and downshifting and blipping the throttle at the same time. A tirewall is your prize for missing the turn, so we just braked early. Not sure what pads are in the AP Racing brakes we purchased from the factory. Not a lot of brake dust on the wheels, so they could be on the hard side. Did not appear to work any better when hot. They definately do not throw me into the shoulder harness like on the Cobra at the same brake pressure.
Brake are fine for street use though.
Summary:
The car performed exactly as I expected, and gave me the feedback I wanted for my street use. To date, we have over 5000 miles on the car. This was too short a track to have the throttle nailed for more than 5 seconds, and that was only in one section. I basically only drove the car in 3rd gear, with 4th being used around the oval up until turn 3. Tried downshifting through the slower turns, but with the understeer, was much better of in a higher gear. More than enough torque at the lower rpm's.
The only other change I might make for the St. Louis trip besides the camber change, is to lower the front about 1", since the Gateway track uses turns 3 and 4 on the oval.
I'm glad that we decided in the beginning of the build not to make this a suedo track car. It's been our experience these years in associating and meeting with car builders, that for the sake of maybe being on the track a few times in it's life, and also for the bragging rights, they've tried to build so much performance into the car, they've sacrificed a lot of reliability and fun.
On this same track two weeks ago racing the F2000 with SCCA, in my class alone there were 5 cars damaged, one a brand new car, first time on the track was totalled. Come to think of it, there was 6, that being me when I ran into a wing that was lying on the track that was ripped from a F2000 when he hit the wall in front of me at 135 mph.,along with his right front suspension.
In all fairness, these cars have only purpose in life, and that's to race, but accidents happen. I built the Ultima for my wife and I to enjoy, which we're doing.
I've proved to myself that with only 350 rear wheel horsepower, this car has more than enough performance, and with a set of track wheels, the car would have been awesome.
Of the 135 cars at the meet this weekend, the CanAm was by far the most photographed and popular.
I hope this report will be of some interest and help.
Jack
>>> Edited by USCANAM on Monday 22 September 16:29
http://home.comcast.net/~rosenracing5/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-957761.html
Why only 2 track days? Well, with 2 other racing cars to use it doesn't make any sense to beat up, or risk damage to the CanAm which also has a much higher value, and a much higher repair rate.
Besides SCCA, I also belong to a time trial club called COMSCC.
http://users.rcn.com/comscc/
This club has to date 525 members, been in existance for 45 years, and we currently have 8 events during the year at 5 tracks which include world famous tracks such as Watkins Glen, Mosport, and Lime Rock. Our home track is the road course at New Hampshire International Speedway which is the host of 2 Winston Cup races each year on the oval. And that's where we are.
This is a VERY competative club and I have been fortunate enough the last two years to win the championship in my class. It looked like I have enough points this year with the F2000 after 5 events to be able to bring the CanAm out and try it. That leaves me the 2 last events to make up the lost points in the class.
Impressions and notes.
Between practice laps and the timed competition, we probably did about 65 laps, close to 100 miles.
Mechanical problems:
1. Probably started off with water level low, and overheated after the first ten laps. Blew out a lot of water from the overheating. Once topped up to correct level, never had problem again. Added water once more, about a quart. Air temp averaged about 75' F.
2. Rear tires are too close to front of wheelwell, only about 1/2" clearance. Bodywork in front of tire is solid black from pickup rubber. Not looking forward to cleaning that mess. Factory did body fit. We used their holes when installing body. Only possible cure we see is to change position of rear upright with new spacers so that the top of the upright moves rearward. That might only be about 1/4" at the wheel, but it will help.
3. The portion of the front clip that lowers down and positions itself behind the front wheels is damaged at the bottom on both sides from pickup rubber.
4. Max engine temp we saw after initial problem was 187' F.
5. Max oil temp was 184'
6. No loss of oil pressure in turns.
Wet sump, winged oil pan with flaps, 9 quarts (US) of oil, oil cooler. Did not have to add any oil.
7. No loss of fuel pressure. Individual pickup in each tank, going to a "T", and both feeding a single high pressure fuel pump for the EFI. No loss or surging under braking, cornering or acceleration. Engine ran perfectly. Fuel level was never lower than 3.5 gallons (US). -10 interconnect hose between tanks.
8. Gearbox (G50 modified with heavier side plate, cooling, and pressure lubrication) temp. never higher than 147'F. No need to turn on cooling pump.
Setup:
Cold tire pressure (Pirelli P Zero Rossos) 16 front, 18 cold. This went up about 2 pounds when hot. Tire wear appears minimal.
Only ran 1.2 degrees neg. camber at front, rather than 1.5. Will change that for St.Louis to 1.6 (can't get 1.5).
Rear is .5 negative camber.
Shocks
Rears. Half way on settings
Fronts. Started out half way, softened about 6 licks to try and help understeer. Very slight improvement in times. Not sure if that was the reason.
Handling:
As I expected, massive understeer, especially with street tires at the front. Knowing this, and knowing that this track is very unforgiving to off track excursions, we did not push the car in critical areas. Track tires would probably save 8 seconds on the 1.5 mile track. There are 2 low speed turns the car simply would not turn at because of pushing. The layout we were using, uses turns 1 and 2 of the oval, and pushing into the wall at 100+ didn't interest me, so conservation was in order. Unlike most English tracks I've seen, half of NHIS has drastic elevation changes once you leave the oval. The car handled very well on these turns, despite the street tires. The reason NHIS can have the elevation changes is because turn 3 crosses the track and you go outside the oval, up a hill, then a roller coaster ride before you return to the oval.
http://users.rcn.com/comscc/tracks/nhis.html
Oversteer was never a problem.
Visibility:
The distorion at the top of the small windscreen was not a problem since you're looking over it. My concern had been about seeing something close. No problem there. Ted had mentioned that he tended to sit higher and closer on the track. I used a couple of pieces of foam to sit on, but found my calf was hitting the bottom of the steering wheel especially when rocking my foot on the brake and gas pedal. Removed one of the foam pieces, and still saw OK.
Brakes:
Straight and true, but needed a lot of pressure which was really a problem when coming into turn 3 where you're braking from well over 100 mph down to about 40 and downshifting and blipping the throttle at the same time. A tirewall is your prize for missing the turn, so we just braked early. Not sure what pads are in the AP Racing brakes we purchased from the factory. Not a lot of brake dust on the wheels, so they could be on the hard side. Did not appear to work any better when hot. They definately do not throw me into the shoulder harness like on the Cobra at the same brake pressure.
Brake are fine for street use though.
Summary:
The car performed exactly as I expected, and gave me the feedback I wanted for my street use. To date, we have over 5000 miles on the car. This was too short a track to have the throttle nailed for more than 5 seconds, and that was only in one section. I basically only drove the car in 3rd gear, with 4th being used around the oval up until turn 3. Tried downshifting through the slower turns, but with the understeer, was much better of in a higher gear. More than enough torque at the lower rpm's.
The only other change I might make for the St. Louis trip besides the camber change, is to lower the front about 1", since the Gateway track uses turns 3 and 4 on the oval.
I'm glad that we decided in the beginning of the build not to make this a suedo track car. It's been our experience these years in associating and meeting with car builders, that for the sake of maybe being on the track a few times in it's life, and also for the bragging rights, they've tried to build so much performance into the car, they've sacrificed a lot of reliability and fun.
On this same track two weeks ago racing the F2000 with SCCA, in my class alone there were 5 cars damaged, one a brand new car, first time on the track was totalled. Come to think of it, there was 6, that being me when I ran into a wing that was lying on the track that was ripped from a F2000 when he hit the wall in front of me at 135 mph.,along with his right front suspension.
In all fairness, these cars have only purpose in life, and that's to race, but accidents happen. I built the Ultima for my wife and I to enjoy, which we're doing.
I've proved to myself that with only 350 rear wheel horsepower, this car has more than enough performance, and with a set of track wheels, the car would have been awesome.
Of the 135 cars at the meet this weekend, the CanAm was by far the most photographed and popular.
I hope this report will be of some interest and help.
Jack
>>> Edited by USCANAM on Monday 22 September 16:29
BobM said:
[quote=USCANAM]
Can I ask what you hope to achieve with your planned increase in negative camber on the fronts?
Bob
Usually, with the correct amount of neg. camber, on a turn the tire will flex and you'll get max footprint on the loaded side. It also appears that the tires is "digging" in to the track on a turn. The profile of the tire will govern the amount of camber too. Look at the amount of neg. camber on the F1's with their balloon tires. On my F2000, I don't run more that 1' neg. up front. Weight and balance and tire pressures and shock settings etc. etc. all are mixed into the formula.
Personally, I wouldn't run a lot of neg. camber if the car is just going to be used on the road as the tire will wear unevenly. For the street I was running 1', and after 5000 street miles, the wear is even across.
Jack
Chris, George and Bob.
Kinda figuered I'd get a response on that comment. England appeared rather flat the few times I've been there.
Actually, the impression we have here is that most of your tracks are built on WW 2 airfields.
Thanks for the correction.
Any links for your tracks?
Jack
Kinda figuered I'd get a response on that comment. England appeared rather flat the few times I've been there.
Actually, the impression we have here is that most of your tracks are built on WW 2 airfields.
Thanks for the correction.
Any links for your tracks?
Jack
If you look here
www.pistonheads.com/reviews/products.asp?c=4
You'll find PH readers reviews of most of the UK circuits.
www.pistonheads.com/reviews/products.asp?c=4
You'll find PH readers reviews of most of the UK circuits.
Thanks James.
Very interesting.
Makes me want to load the CanAm in a container and try some of them out.
The approach to track driving appears to be different here as in England. The impression I'm getting is your tracks are far more open to the public for track days than what we have. A few of our tracks have the odd testing day, but in my region (North East U.S.)just about every available track day is booked by an event or a club. For example, Lime Rock which can't have cars driving on Sunday, is booked solid from April to November. The only way our club could get in the door, was by taking a 2 day date in November in the middle of the week, and hopefully, in the future that will lead to a better date. Last year, we had snow on the track in the morning!!!.
For as large a country as this is, it is extremely difficult to get a new track built. SCCA (the largest racing club in the country) has been trying for 20 years to build it's own track in the New England area, and has been unable to sway locals for the permits.
There is a track in Virginia, VIR, (about 800 miles from my door), that is built like a country club where at certain times, as a member, you have open track times.
www.virclub.com/
A similar track is in the works about 150 miles north west of me.http://clubmotorsports.memfirst.net/Club/Scripts/Home/home.asp
A link to my tracks
http://users.rcn.com/comscc/tracks/roadcors.html
Distances from my house.
Mosport 600 miles
VIR 800
NHIS 135
Watkins 425
Lime Rock 275
As you can see, you have to be dedicated if driving is your hobby in this area.
In a normal season, I put about 15,000 miles on my trailer!!
Regards
Jack
>> Edited by USCANAM on Tuesday 23 September 14:20
Very interesting.
Makes me want to load the CanAm in a container and try some of them out.
The approach to track driving appears to be different here as in England. The impression I'm getting is your tracks are far more open to the public for track days than what we have. A few of our tracks have the odd testing day, but in my region (North East U.S.)just about every available track day is booked by an event or a club. For example, Lime Rock which can't have cars driving on Sunday, is booked solid from April to November. The only way our club could get in the door, was by taking a 2 day date in November in the middle of the week, and hopefully, in the future that will lead to a better date. Last year, we had snow on the track in the morning!!!.
For as large a country as this is, it is extremely difficult to get a new track built. SCCA (the largest racing club in the country) has been trying for 20 years to build it's own track in the New England area, and has been unable to sway locals for the permits.
There is a track in Virginia, VIR, (about 800 miles from my door), that is built like a country club where at certain times, as a member, you have open track times.
www.virclub.com/
A similar track is in the works about 150 miles north west of me.http://clubmotorsports.memfirst.net/Club/Scripts/Home/home.asp
A link to my tracks
http://users.rcn.com/comscc/tracks/roadcors.html
Distances from my house.
Mosport 600 miles
VIR 800
NHIS 135
Watkins 425
Lime Rock 275
As you can see, you have to be dedicated if driving is your hobby in this area.
In a normal season, I put about 15,000 miles on my trailer!!
Regards
Jack
>> Edited by USCANAM on Tuesday 23 September 14:20
Thanks for the update.
Hope to get my bushings installed Friday and do a high speed time trials at Blackhawk Sat.
Loads of tracks nearby here in Chicagoland. From Crystal Lake IL:
Blackhawk Farms 50 miles
Road America 125 miles
Chicagoland Speedway Joliet 50 miles
Chicago Motor Speedway Cicero 40 miles
GingerMan Raceway 90 miles
Grattan Raceway 150 miles
Indianapolis Raceway Park 220 miles
Putnam Park 250 miles
East St Louis 320 miles
Maybe a few I forgot. Not to mention 3 drag strips within an hour that run tues, wed, thur, fri, eves and sat, sun.
Jeff
Hope to get my bushings installed Friday and do a high speed time trials at Blackhawk Sat.
Loads of tracks nearby here in Chicagoland. From Crystal Lake IL:
Blackhawk Farms 50 miles
Road America 125 miles
Chicagoland Speedway Joliet 50 miles
Chicago Motor Speedway Cicero 40 miles
GingerMan Raceway 90 miles
Grattan Raceway 150 miles
Indianapolis Raceway Park 220 miles
Putnam Park 250 miles
East St Louis 320 miles
Maybe a few I forgot. Not to mention 3 drag strips within an hour that run tues, wed, thur, fri, eves and sat, sun.
Jeff
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