xj6 series2/3?

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Discussion

sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Monday 22nd September 2008
quotequote all
I've got this probably mad idea of having a useable classic for work ( round trip of about 35 miles). Would a decent xj6 series2/3 be up to it? Have bought Jag Monthly for the buying guide,but wondered if anyone has first hand experience or could point me in the direction of a good one? Also recommendations for servicing in Essex ( have JD classics on my doorstep).I'm not particularly mech minded,so I'm hoping that its not more trouble than its worth!

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Monday 22nd September 2008
quotequote all
sjc said:
I've got this probably mad idea of having a useable classic for work ( round trip of about 35 miles). Would a decent xj6 series2/3 be up to it? Have bought Jag Monthly for the buying guide,but wondered if anyone has first hand experience or could point me in the direction of a good one? Also recommendations for servicing in Essex ( have JD classics on my doorstep).I'm not particularly mech minded,so I'm hoping that its not more trouble than its worth!
A Series III is probably a better bet than a Series II, you get fuel injection and such like, that way. Commuting that far in a Series III Jag is probably going to prove expensive.

As for servicing recommendations, JD Classics are probably extremely good, their prices probably go with that. They are really right at the top end of the Classic Jag market place. Most of the cars they sell are a bit pretty for my taste, I like old cars to look old. JD Classics specialise in making classic cars into modern cars. If you want an XK150 with everyday practicallity, 360 usable horses out of an XK engine, modern climate control, braking and traction control etc... they'd don't an outstanding job. They do sell more original cars too, but all the ones I saw at XK60 looked over restored to my mind - I guess I'm not their target customer. Having said that I'll often glance through their ads and they also seem to have exceptional original cars.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2008
quotequote all
The S3 would be my choice. Build quality improved remarkably throught the early 80's although the very best example is still no match for a later Jaguar. The S3 was availible in V12 form up to 1991 and is a significantly better car than the earlier models.

All the series XJs are prone to corrosion around the headlights, bottom of the wings and doors and wheel arches, round the front and rear screens, the sills and jacking points and radius arm mountings. A badly rusted example will cost far more than it's worth to repair so the body is the best place to start looking.

Mechanicaly they are not too bad. The 4.2 S3 was fitted with fuel injection, slightly higher gearing and a revised cylinder head which improved fuel consumption making 20-22MPG possible with careful use. Expect no more than 16MPG though in town. You are likley to experience detonation on 95 octane fuel so you'll be buying Super Unleaded. The engines are prone to oil leaks, cracked blocks and head gasket failure. There was a 3.4 version on twin carburettors which did not suffer the block cracking and head gasket problems of the 4.2, but in 'auto form it's woefully sluggish.

Minor electricial problems will crop up - check everything works including the heating/ventilation and air con. Accessing the heater box is a nightmare. The electrics are simple compared to later XJs

Listen very carefully for odd noises from the rear. XJs are heavy on shock absorbers and differentials. They can also cook the rear discs and 'diff seals. Poor handbrake performance was a regular MOT failure and a sign somthing much more serious may be wrong. Access to the complicated rear subframe containing all the rear brakes is difficult to say the least making it very expensive to work on.

Don't expect a modern driving experience either. A good well maintained S3 will have a lovely ride quality and enough performance to keep up with traffic, but the handling is wallowly, steering feedback is non existent and ultimate grip is not really that good. The auto is pretty slow away from the lights too. There was a very rare option of a 5 speed manual on both the 3.4 and 4.2 which is significantly quicker. The V12 is very rapid in comparison with the straight 6s and only available as a automatic.

I has a 1983 S3 for about 10 years and covered over 60k in it. Dispite it being a low mileage, well maintained car drenched in Waxoil during that time I rebuilt or repaired or replaced almost every component on the car. Although most spares are still available - how much longer for 'tho, when was the last time you saw a S3 in regular use? - if you are not mechanically competent and have to pay a garage to repair or renovate it it will cost you a fortune.

JD Classics are on my doorstep too and I'm sure they are more than competent to look after a S3. If you really want one I'd suggest you take expert advice and have any potential car throughly inspected, buy the very best you can find (try jagads or Robert Hughes) and run another car for daily use saving wear and tear and the worst effects of our wonderfull climate on the Jaguar.



Edited by Jaguar steve on Tuesday 23 September 09:05

a8hex

5,829 posts

222 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2008
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
buy the very best you can find (try jagads or Robert Hughes) and run another car for daily use saving wear and tear and the worst effects of our wonderfull climate on the Jaguar.
I've spoken with Robert, I looked at buying an S Type from him. My impression is that if you explained what you were planning to do with the car he'd tell you whether he thought it was realistic with a particular car. There are cars out there that have been worked on to make them more suitable for use as everyday cars and he might know where he could find you one and how much it would likely to cost.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2008
quotequote all
You could look at this two ways.

Buy a really superb one as a long term proposition and spend lots of time and money caring for it - or buy a dirt cheap one with an MOT and simply scrap it when it goes wrong. You could always flog it to a banger racer when it's knackered...... getmecoat

There's no safe, predictable middle of the road buys with older Jaguars IMO.


sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Tuesday 23rd September 2008
quotequote all
Many thanks, there's some great advice from all the posts.I do prefer the S2 to the S3 appearance wise, and both of them to the later cars ( my dad had one and I polished it every weekend for football boot money etc!) It would be used 3 or 4 times a week at least ( the idea being to keep some mileage of my Noble that I use every day!)so in light of what's been said maybe as an everyday proposition a later car would do it, but I wouldn't get the "classic" feeling which I like the idea of. I have the chance to buy a 1 owner 1998 3.2ltr V8 sport with 142000 miles, full Strastone history, new engine at 80K (now non Nikasil I assume) for £1500ish.The wrong colour and shape for me,but maintenance might be less and probably half the price of a series 2/3. Any other advice would be appreciated.

Edited by sjc on Sunday 13th September 17:44

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Wednesday 24th September 2008
quotequote all
Actually if you want a future classic, why not consider a X300? These are generally more reliable, and all other thing being equal, carry a greater mileage with ease than a V8.

You potential XJ8 may have had a new engine, but at 150k I'd say the gearbox and 'diff are living on borrowed time - the 8s are very edgy cars and suffer more from Jaguar's minimlaist maintainence schedule, compared to the earlier 6s - and even with a replacement engine you will still have to consider changing the secondary timing chain tensioners, as well as depending when the engine swap was done, the water pump and possibly the throttle body. Find Broadbean747s post on this forum - he's put together a definative guide to buying a V8.

Maintained really well and lovingly cared for the V8 is a wonderful car and a big advance on anything Jaguar has made before in terms of driving dynamics. If it's been abused and neglected it'll be a complete dog and will bleed you white. To be avoided at all costs IMO.

On the other hand a well cared for X300 is still a good proposition. They are nice to drive and have a slightly more comfortable ride. They are also easier to work on and parts are cheaper which is important if you're paying garage bills. Fuel consumption and insurance costs are similar to the V8.

To be honest my choice for daily use would be a X300. The series 2/3 are lovely cars but you'd be plauged by rust and petrol bills, not to mention questionable reliability. Fine if you can nurse it home or have a mate with a tow truck and fix it yourself, but a proper PITA if it won't start on Monday morning. They really are best preserved as a sunny sunday toy rather than a daily drive.

You should be able to find a X300 in reasonable condition around £1500, the very best examples can be found starting around £3000. Have a drive in one and see what you think. Sellers are really struggling to shift big engined cars at the moment and now's the time to drive a hard bargain.

sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Sunday 13th September 2009
quotequote all
sjc said:
I have the chance to buy a 1 owner 1998 3.2 V8 sport with 142000 miles, full Stratstone Woodford history, new engine at 80K (now non Nikasil I assume) for £1300ish.The wrong colour and shape for me,but maintenance might be less and probably half the price of a series 2/3. Any other advice would be appreciated.
Sorry to resurrect my own thread but the above car is now available.The guy is a friend, and wouldn't knowingly sell me a dud.Just been MOT'd and taxed, was last serviced at 140,000miles 18 months ago, it's now at 142 thou, but has stood unmoved for a year.The new Jag engine was fitted at 80K due to the engine constantly flooding after a mile or so( would this be a common prob)?
I've just driven it, engine and box fine,a gentle clonking from the back like an exhaust mount, but of more concern was a vibration from the back that could be the(fairly new) P6000tyres being flatted as the car has stood still for so long,or something more sinister like the diff.I would have asssumed that something like that would be picked up during Jag main dealer servicing,and shocks would have failed the MOT.I'm gonna have my man put it up on the ramps first before I commit either way, as the ride certtainly wasn't "Jag like". If it all checks out,first thing I'd do is have the "sealed for life " box oil changed, and if I can grab it for 1100 quid or so I'd then get the small bits of surface rust on the windscreen pillar and other dings'minor scrapes sorted and for about £1500 I might have something to waft 5000 miles a year in, albeit it in old man green with walnut,which will put years on me !
Not sure about tensioners,water pump etc or how to spot what version of them, any other advice appreciated.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Sunday 13th September 2009
quotequote all
sjc said:
sjc said:
I have the chance to buy a 1 owner 1998 3.2 V8 sport with 142000 miles, full Stratstone Woodford history, new engine at 80K (now non Nikasil I assume) for £1300ish.The wrong colour and shape for me,but maintenance might be less and probably half the price of a series 2/3. Any other advice would be appreciated.
Sorry to resurrect my own thread but the above car is now available.The guy is a friend, and wouldn't knowingly sell me a dud.Just been MOT'd and taxed, was last serviced at 140,000miles 18 months ago, it's now at 142 thou, but has stood unmoved for a year.The new Jag engine was fitted at 80K due to the engine constantly flooding after a mile or so( would this be a common prob)?
I've just driven it, engine and box fine,a gentle clonking from the back like an exhaust mount, but of more concern was a vibration from the back that could be the(fairly new) P6000tyres being flatted as the car has stood still for so long,or something more sinister like the diff.I would have asssumed that something like that would be picked up during Jag main dealer servicing,and shocks would have failed the MOT.I'm gonna have my man put it up on the ramps first before I commit either way, as the ride certtainly wasn't "Jag like". If it all checks out,first thing I'd do is have the "sealed for life " box oil changed, and if I can grab it for 1100 quid or so I'd then get the small bits of surface rust on the windscreen pillar and other dings'minor scrapes sorted and for about £1500 I might have something to waft 5000 miles a year in, albeit it in old man green with walnut,which will put years on me !
Not sure about tensioners,water pump etc or how to spot what version of them, any other advice appreciated.
If it's a friend selling ask if you can borrow the car for a couple of days and put a few miles on it before you decide.

Clonking or rattling from the rear is usually a worn shockabsorber - either the shock itself or the bottom mount. A vibration from the rear is likley to be either tyres out of shape or balance or a worn CV joint or possibly a propshaft bearing. If it's the latter two chances are you'll be able to turn the vibration on and off with the throttle. If it's a tyre it'll be worse at certain road speeds. Failing 'diffs are almost invariably noisy long before they start causing vibration. If a 'diff really is vibrating badly you'd better get ready to start walking.

You certainly won't get a traditional Jag like magic carpet ride from a X308. I'm afraid the days of Jaguar ride quality being stunningly good have long gone - ride has been sacrificed for grip, feel and handling by fitting lower profile tyres and using much higher spring and damping rates as well as much stiffer mountings. If you don't believe me borrow a good Series 3 or XJ40 (or almost any modern Citroen or Peugeot) for a day and mourn weeping just how much refinement has been lost. Depending on what date the replacement engine was fitted will almost certainly determine which waterpump and tensioners are fitted. The different waterpumps have different gaskets. IIRC the later one has a black plastic gasket and the earlier type is metal Anything on the engine before 2000 will be suspect and you may have proplems with the throttle body unless the recall has been done, plastic timing chain tensioners, (1.0 hour labour to check, about 3.0h to change both). Worse case is all the timing gear may be worn - which'l cost more than you're paying for the car to replace.

Don't rely on main dealer servicing - mostly it's poor quality work done in a hurry with corners cut and items missed. I've lost count of the cars I've seen and worked on with FMDSH that have had half empty gearboxes and 'diffs, missed fluid changes, bits broken off or missing or incorrectly put back together, loose bolts and dried up UJs.

You'll also need the check behind the front shocks on the reinforcing plates where the subframe is mounted to the body on both sides for evidence of corrosion. This is a potentially really serious and expensive problem on 308s if unchecked.

It's a high miler which can be a real problem with neglected X308s - not so if it's been really well cared for and available at the right price, but buy with your eyes wide open and do a full fluid change as soon as you get it if you want it to last.

sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Monday 14th September 2009
quotequote all
Jaguar steve said:
sjc said:
sjc said:
I have the chance to buy a 1 owner 1998 3.2 V8 sport with 142000 miles, full Stratstone Woodford history, new engine at 80K (now non Nikasil I assume) for £1300ish.The wrong colour and shape for me,but maintenance might be less and probably half the price of a series 2/3. Any other advice would be appreciated.
Sorry to resurrect my own thread but the above car is now available.The guy is a friend, and wouldn't knowingly sell me a dud.Just been MOT'd and taxed, was last serviced at 140,000miles 18 months ago, it's now at 142 thou, but has stood unmoved for a year.The new Jag engine was fitted at 80K due to the engine constantly flooding after a mile or so( would this be a common prob)?
I've just driven it, engine and box fine,a gentle clonking from the back like an exhaust mount, but of more concern was a vibration from the back that could be the(fairly new) P6000tyres being flatted as the car has stood still for so long,or something more sinister like the diff.I would have asssumed that something like that would be picked up during Jag main dealer servicing,and shocks would have failed the MOT.I'm gonna have my man put it up on the ramps first before I commit either way, as the ride certtainly wasn't "Jag like". If it all checks out,first thing I'd do is have the "sealed for life " box oil changed, and if I can grab it for 1100 quid or so I'd then get the small bits of surface rust on the windscreen pillar and other dings'minor scrapes sorted and for about £1500 I might have something to waft 5000 miles a year in, albeit it in old man green with walnut,which will put years on me !
Not sure about tensioners,water pump etc or how to spot what version of them, any other advice appreciated.
If it's a friend selling ask if you can borrow the car for a couple of days and put a few miles on it before you decide.

Clonking or rattling from the rear is usually a worn shockabsorber - either the shock itself or the bottom mount. A vibration from the rear is likley to be either tyres out of shape or balance or a worn CV joint or possibly a propshaft bearing. If it's the latter two chances are you'll be able to turn the vibration on and off with the throttle. If it's a tyre it'll be worse at certain road speeds. Failing 'diffs are almost invariably noisy long before they start causing vibration. If a 'diff really is vibrating badly you'd better get ready to start walking.

You certainly won't get a traditional Jag like magic carpet ride from a X308. I'm afraid the days of Jaguar ride quality being stunningly good have long gone - ride has been sacrificed for grip, feel and handling by fitting lower profile tyres and using much higher spring and damping rates as well as much stiffer mountings. If you don't believe me borrow a good Series 3 or XJ40 (or almost any modern Citroen or Peugeot) for a day and mourn weeping just how much refinement has been lost. Depending on what date the replacement engine was fitted will almost certainly determine which waterpump and tensioners are fitted. The different waterpumps have different gaskets. IIRC the later one has a black plastic gasket and the earlier type is metal Anything on the engine before 2000 will be suspect and you may have proplems with the throttle body unless the recall has been done, plastic timing chain tensioners, (1.0 hour labour to check, about 3.0h to change both). Worse case is all the timing gear may be worn - which'l cost more than you're paying for the car to replace.

Don't rely on main dealer servicing - mostly it's poor quality work done in a hurry with corners cut and items missed. I've lost count of the cars I've seen and worked on with FMDSH that have had half empty gearboxes and 'diffs, missed fluid changes, bits broken off or missing or incorrectly put back together, loose bolts and dried up UJs.

You'll also need the check behind the front shocks on the reinforcing plates where the subframe is mounted to the body on both sides for evidence of corrosion. This is a potentially really serious and expensive problem on 308s if unchecked.

It's a high miler which can be a real problem with neglected X308s - not so if it's been really well cared for and available at the right price, but buy with your eyes wide open and do a full fluid change as soon as you get it if you want it to last.
Thanks Stve, that's a really informative post.

richw_82

992 posts

185 months

Monday 14th September 2009
quotequote all
I've ran Series 3's as every day cars for a few years now, and I loved every minute. I've now moved on to a Series 1, for a bit more purity. It's a little rough round the edges, but it's been utterly dependable so far.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Monday 14th September 2009
quotequote all
sjc said:
Jaguar steve said:
sjc said:
sjc said:
I have the chance to buy a 1 owner 1998 3.2 V8 sport with 142000 miles, full Stratstone Woodford history, new engine at 80K (now non Nikasil I assume) for £1300ish.The wrong colour and shape for me,but maintenance might be less and probably half the price of a series 2/3. Any other advice would be appreciated.
Sorry to resurrect my own thread but the above car is now available.The guy is a friend, and wouldn't knowingly sell me a dud.Just been MOT'd and taxed, was last serviced at 140,000miles 18 months ago, it's now at 142 thou, but has stood unmoved for a year.The new Jag engine was fitted at 80K due to the engine constantly flooding after a mile or so( would this be a common prob)?
I've just driven it, engine and box fine,a gentle clonking from the back like an exhaust mount, but of more concern was a vibration from the back that could be the(fairly new) P6000tyres being flatted as the car has stood still for so long,or something more sinister like the diff.I would have asssumed that something like that would be picked up during Jag main dealer servicing,and shocks would have failed the MOT.I'm gonna have my man put it up on the ramps first before I commit either way, as the ride certtainly wasn't "Jag like". If it all checks out,first thing I'd do is have the "sealed for life " box oil changed, and if I can grab it for 1100 quid or so I'd then get the small bits of surface rust on the windscreen pillar and other dings'minor scrapes sorted and for about £1500 I might have something to waft 5000 miles a year in, albeit it in old man green with walnut,which will put years on me !
Not sure about tensioners,water pump etc or how to spot what version of them, any other advice appreciated.
If it's a friend selling ask if you can borrow the car for a couple of days and put a few miles on it before you decide.

Clonking or rattling from the rear is usually a worn shockabsorber - either the shock itself or the bottom mount. A vibration from the rear is likley to be either tyres out of shape or balance or a worn CV joint or possibly a propshaft bearing. If it's the latter two chances are you'll be able to turn the vibration on and off with the throttle. If it's a tyre it'll be worse at certain road speeds. Failing 'diffs are almost invariably noisy long before they start causing vibration. If a 'diff really is vibrating badly you'd better get ready to start walking.

You certainly won't get a traditional Jag like magic carpet ride from a X308. I'm afraid the days of Jaguar ride quality being stunningly good have long gone - ride has been sacrificed for grip, feel and handling by fitting lower profile tyres and using much higher spring and damping rates as well as much stiffer mountings. If you don't believe me borrow a good Series 3 or XJ40 (or almost any modern Citroen or Peugeot) for a day and mourn weeping just how much refinement has been lost. Depending on what date the replacement engine was fitted will almost certainly determine which waterpump and tensioners are fitted. The different waterpumps have different gaskets. IIRC the later one has a black plastic gasket and the earlier type is metal Anything on the engine before 2000 will be suspect and you may have proplems with the throttle body unless the recall has been done, plastic timing chain tensioners, (1.0 hour labour to check, about 3.0h to change both). Worse case is all the timing gear may be worn - which'l cost more than you're paying for the car to replace.

Don't rely on main dealer servicing - mostly it's poor quality work done in a hurry with corners cut and items missed. I've lost count of the cars I've seen and worked on with FMDSH that have had half empty gearboxes and 'diffs, missed fluid changes, bits broken off or missing or incorrectly put back together, loose bolts and dried up UJs.

You'll also need the check behind the front shocks on the reinforcing plates where the subframe is mounted to the body on both sides for evidence of corrosion. This is a potentially really serious and expensive problem on 308s if unchecked.

It's a high miler which can be a real problem with neglected X308s - not so if it's been really well cared for and available at the right price, but buy with your eyes wide open and do a full fluid change as soon as you get it if you want it to last.
Thanks Stve, that's a really informative post.
Dont worry TOO much about miles - I've seen a 233k XJ8 on fleabay recently with no mention of replacement engine or 'box. It had a absolutely massive history though which proves my point about looking after one properly. I've also driven a 180k example for a few hundred miles which was tight, smooth and went like st off a shovel when you booted it - the reason? - you could quite literally only just get the glovebox lid shut due to the amount of servicing reciepts inside.

As you're not far from me (Mid Essex?) ('innit 'bruv, brrrrraaapp rolleyes) PM me if you borrow it and you'd like to bring it round for a second opinion. Cost you nothing except a pint maybe.

Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 14th September 16:48


Edited by Jaguar steve on Monday 14th September 16:50

sunday-driver

96 posts

206 months

Monday 14th September 2009
quotequote all
I had a 203k mile two owner 1989 BMW 325i M Sport coupe (with LSD) 2004 to 2006. It's last service and MOT cost me £2k (not kidding), it was kept in perfect condition! And delicious to drive. Hopefully still going strong today though. One memory of the car was going to a posh hotel (Babington House) and the hotel chap doing the courtesy parking was almost in tears he was so excited to drive it into the car park.

(hope the cost of the service on the Beemer doesn't put you off a high mileage Jag! In my view it's all about finding a car that has been lovingly looked after)

sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Friday 18th September 2009
quotequote all
Ok I've declined the car mentioned above, wil keep you informed of any progress with others.Thanks for all your replies, and JaguarSteve really appreciate the offer.

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Friday 18th September 2009
quotequote all
'S OK... any excuse to have a nose at an old Jaguar and have a pint or two. Time it right and it'll get me out of the washing up too.

Post 1990 XJ 40s and X300s are the real bargains at the moment, if you can find a really good example of either you'll not get better luxobarge driving from anything else IMO.

sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Thursday 24th September 2009
quotequote all
O.K. on the advice of some of you on this very helpful forum,today I've driven a 4 litre Daimler Six and frankly it was lovely.Simply wafted along, quietly smoothly and without fuss.It looked like it may have had the odd bit of paint,its done 100K but it's had only 2 owners of 7 years each, and the seller is hoping to contact the last owner to fill in the recent gap in the service book ( The way it drove it certainly hasn't been neglected, maybe owner maintained).A few things to ask the informed

1:Anything model dependent to the Daimler six to look out for?
2:Is this model likely to become more of a classic than others of that era?
3:The dashboard vents were a bit wobbly,common/easy fix? The Air-con worked fine, but the dash vents were not moving as one on the spindle.Could live with it but as I'd have to look at it all the time it might become annoying!
Not going to rush in s there's also a 3.2 litre Sport that looks promising elsewhere,but I'm now sold on a X300 straight Six to waft me to work!

Jaguar steve

9,232 posts

209 months

Thursday 24th September 2009
quotequote all
100k on an X300 - providing it's been cared for and maintained really well is not a worry. Check the rear arches for rust - then spray everywhere with Waxoil and change all the fluids. Check all the goodies work, pay the man a modest amount of cash and chances are you'll have a bargin waftmobile.

slab777

5 posts

167 months

Monday 26th April 2010
quotequote all
Buy Mercedes Classic if you want a car to use. The Jaguar series 1 2 and 3 are nice cars but will not handle modern life too well - rust being the biggest killer. The mechanics are fine of you spend the money !

sjc

Original Poster:

13,878 posts

269 months

Monday 26th April 2010
quotequote all
I bought a 1 owner 28K miles unmarked immac Rover 75 2.5 V6 Connoisseur S.E Auto for 2400 quid instead. 5 months later the ride, waft and kit at that money still leaves me gobsmacked!

richw_82

992 posts

185 months

Tuesday 27th April 2010
quotequote all
slab777 said:
Buy Mercedes Classic if you want a car to use. The Jaguar series 1 2 and 3 are nice cars but will not handle modern life too well - rust being the biggest killer. The mechanics are fine of you spend the money !
Mine handles modern life fine, and its a series 1. The series 3 is even more capable of doing so. If you get a good one, and get it well protected, they're no worse than any other 30 year old car.