To R32, or not to R32?
Discussion
Hi to all at Pistonheads.
This is my first post.
I am currently considering a replacement for my Saab 9-5 Aero. The Saab was purchased to accommodate two young children and associated "baggage". We now own a Nissan Qashqai which fits the family transport bill perfectly.
This leaves me free to purchase a replaceemt for the Saab that doen't put space at the top of the priority list.
I still require a 4 seater as I use my car occasionally for business and need to transport staff/clients.
The Saab helped me realise that I don't actually like big cars. The size, weight and dynamic overhead is too great and I missed the directness and driver enjouyment of most of my previous cars.
My head has been turned by the R32, however, I am concerned about fuel. My concern is not the current running costs - I am fortunate enough to have that cost covered by my company - it is the likely effect on resale of a big engined, relatively thirsty, unleaded drinking car. Running costs are one thing but depreciation is a greater financial factor in my experience.
I understand that VW have no current plans to develop another "big engined small car" as emmissions and fuel consumption are priorities for future programmes.
Does anyone have any views on the likely future of heavy drinking small performance cars?
Also, I test drove, albeit, very briefly, an R32 and it left me a bit cold. The car felt great from a quality and ride perspective but the power delivery was a bit alien to me. I have driven forced induction cars for almost 20 years and found the normally aspirated R32 to lack a certain "sportiness" or feeling of urgency. I admire the car but don't think I covet it. Any suggestions on alternatives? RX8 is interesting but too maintenance heavy (oil checks every other refuel !?!)and also liable to same future thirst problems. Impreza too boy racer (and already owned an '02 STI prior to Saab). S3 sounds very interesting but most reviews rate it quite poorly and suggest R32 is better.
Thoughts would be most welcome.
This is my first post.
I am currently considering a replacement for my Saab 9-5 Aero. The Saab was purchased to accommodate two young children and associated "baggage". We now own a Nissan Qashqai which fits the family transport bill perfectly.
This leaves me free to purchase a replaceemt for the Saab that doen't put space at the top of the priority list.
I still require a 4 seater as I use my car occasionally for business and need to transport staff/clients.
The Saab helped me realise that I don't actually like big cars. The size, weight and dynamic overhead is too great and I missed the directness and driver enjouyment of most of my previous cars.
My head has been turned by the R32, however, I am concerned about fuel. My concern is not the current running costs - I am fortunate enough to have that cost covered by my company - it is the likely effect on resale of a big engined, relatively thirsty, unleaded drinking car. Running costs are one thing but depreciation is a greater financial factor in my experience.
I understand that VW have no current plans to develop another "big engined small car" as emmissions and fuel consumption are priorities for future programmes.
Does anyone have any views on the likely future of heavy drinking small performance cars?
Also, I test drove, albeit, very briefly, an R32 and it left me a bit cold. The car felt great from a quality and ride perspective but the power delivery was a bit alien to me. I have driven forced induction cars for almost 20 years and found the normally aspirated R32 to lack a certain "sportiness" or feeling of urgency. I admire the car but don't think I covet it. Any suggestions on alternatives? RX8 is interesting but too maintenance heavy (oil checks every other refuel !?!)and also liable to same future thirst problems. Impreza too boy racer (and already owned an '02 STI prior to Saab). S3 sounds very interesting but most reviews rate it quite poorly and suggest R32 is better.
Thoughts would be most welcome.
I've got a R32 and love it.
I know what you mean with the power delivery. I came from a Turbo car and was initially dissappointed but it was very deceiving. The power is the R32 is just so smooth and coupled with a DSG gearbox it's almost too smooth. It does it so effertlessly that it feels slow.
Some good deals to be done on R32 at the moment due to falling prices.
For me the S3 was just too dull but I'm sure it's a really good car although doesn't have the V6 burble
I know what you mean with the power delivery. I came from a Turbo car and was initially dissappointed but it was very deceiving. The power is the R32 is just so smooth and coupled with a DSG gearbox it's almost too smooth. It does it so effertlessly that it feels slow.
Some good deals to be done on R32 at the moment due to falling prices.
For me the S3 was just too dull but I'm sure it's a really good car although doesn't have the V6 burble
Am running an R32 at the moment as a Company Car (have a guess which Company...!)
I love it:
It looks special - my neighbour loved it when he saw it parked on the driveway for the first time
It sounds great - esp the crackle as you accelerate through c3,000-4,000 RPM in a tunnel
The interior trim uplifts help it feel a bit special, especially with the proper Recaro seats
It's full of character, and I'll be very sad whe I have to wave goodbye to it
However, I wouldn't buy one with my own money - it's currently averaging c18-20mpg, IIRC it falls into top VED band and I suspect insurance isn't cheap. Given the current setiment towards big-engined, heavy CO2 emitting cars, I suspect that it'll depreciate badly too?
Over the last 12 months I've also had the pleasure of an Audi S3 and a Golf GTi Edition 30. Whilst neither made me smile as I walked across the car-park towards them in the way that the R32 does, they are both better "drivers cars", and financially far more sensible...
Again, if it were my money I'd have a GTi Edition 30 - for me its the best mix of driving/handling, performance, practicality (esp the 5-door), cost.
Best advice as always, is work out what you need it for (commuting, pleasure, carrying family etc), work out what's important (image, spec, cost) and test drive all the options!
Above all, have fun choosing!
I love it:
It looks special - my neighbour loved it when he saw it parked on the driveway for the first time
It sounds great - esp the crackle as you accelerate through c3,000-4,000 RPM in a tunnel
The interior trim uplifts help it feel a bit special, especially with the proper Recaro seats
It's full of character, and I'll be very sad whe I have to wave goodbye to it
However, I wouldn't buy one with my own money - it's currently averaging c18-20mpg, IIRC it falls into top VED band and I suspect insurance isn't cheap. Given the current setiment towards big-engined, heavy CO2 emitting cars, I suspect that it'll depreciate badly too?
Over the last 12 months I've also had the pleasure of an Audi S3 and a Golf GTi Edition 30. Whilst neither made me smile as I walked across the car-park towards them in the way that the R32 does, they are both better "drivers cars", and financially far more sensible...
Again, if it were my money I'd have a GTi Edition 30 - for me its the best mix of driving/handling, performance, practicality (esp the 5-door), cost.
Best advice as always, is work out what you need it for (commuting, pleasure, carrying family etc), work out what's important (image, spec, cost) and test drive all the options!
Above all, have fun choosing!
DMH@VWG said:
Am running an R32 at the moment as a Company Car (have a guess which Company...!)
I love it:
It looks special - my neighbour loved it when he saw it parked on the driveway for the first time
It sounds great - esp the crackle as you accelerate through c3,000-4,000 RPM in a tunnel
The interior trim uplifts help it feel a bit special, especially with the proper Recaro seats
It's full of character, and I'll be very sad whe I have to wave goodbye to it
However, I wouldn't buy one with my own money - it's currently averaging c18-20mpg, IIRC it falls into top VED band and I suspect insurance isn't cheap. Given the current setiment towards big-engined, heavy CO2 emitting cars, I suspect that it'll depreciate badly too?
Over the last 12 months I've also had the pleasure of an Audi S3 and a Golf GTi Edition 30. Whilst neither made me smile as I walked across the car-park towards them in the way that the R32 does, they are both better "drivers cars", and financially far more sensible...
Again, if it were my money I'd have a GTi Edition 30 - for me its the best mix of driving/handling, performance, practicality (esp the 5-door), cost.
Best advice as always, is work out what you need it for (commuting, pleasure, carrying family etc), work out what's important (image, spec, cost) and test drive all the options!
Above all, have fun choosing!
I Agree, the GTi Edition 30 is a good car, and with a remap you will get 300Bhp, which is not a bad thing. I love it:
It looks special - my neighbour loved it when he saw it parked on the driveway for the first time
It sounds great - esp the crackle as you accelerate through c3,000-4,000 RPM in a tunnel
The interior trim uplifts help it feel a bit special, especially with the proper Recaro seats
It's full of character, and I'll be very sad whe I have to wave goodbye to it
However, I wouldn't buy one with my own money - it's currently averaging c18-20mpg, IIRC it falls into top VED band and I suspect insurance isn't cheap. Given the current setiment towards big-engined, heavy CO2 emitting cars, I suspect that it'll depreciate badly too?
Over the last 12 months I've also had the pleasure of an Audi S3 and a Golf GTi Edition 30. Whilst neither made me smile as I walked across the car-park towards them in the way that the R32 does, they are both better "drivers cars", and financially far more sensible...
Again, if it were my money I'd have a GTi Edition 30 - for me its the best mix of driving/handling, performance, practicality (esp the 5-door), cost.
Best advice as always, is work out what you need it for (commuting, pleasure, carrying family etc), work out what's important (image, spec, cost) and test drive all the options!
Above all, have fun choosing!
Is modifying allowed with company cars??
I have an R32 and I would never go for a four cylinder turbo model - the V6 sounds amazing and the overall drive whilst not as nimble as a GTI or ED30 (or Pirelli as they are now known) is still silly quick. It's a long distance cruiser as well as a fast mover. Top end power well above motorway speed limits is also supreme - a GTI just wouldn't give me that same silly grin
The S3 was the only one to ever come close but it just didn't quite have enough grunt - it was all turbo lag and no roar. Forced induction might kick you in the back at 2500 rpm+ but the R32 pulls from tickover all the way through the rev range, especially with a good remap.
Do try the S3, GTI, ED30 and 130 too - they are all very different cars for different markets. The RX8 has no torque whatsoever - I have blown many away with out any trouble at all, plus they are just as thirsty.
If depreciation and VED are concerns, don't get something with such a big engine, or consider a BMW 120d or 330d. Is there a big diesel 1 series?? How about an Audi A3 Quattro 2.0 TDI Sport? The 330d wil be the best soot chucker for hooning IMHO.
There will always be a market for hot hatches, but in the current economic climate I can't see residual values for cars like the R32 improving at all for a few years, until the economy grows again. Be prepared to keep a big engined hatch for a while or take a HUGE hit when you trade it in.
The R32 and S3 are insurance group 18. I pay £414 pa with several modifications, thanks to Adrian Flux.
BTW Welcome to Pistonheads, Tony McK
I have an R32 and I would never go for a four cylinder turbo model - the V6 sounds amazing and the overall drive whilst not as nimble as a GTI or ED30 (or Pirelli as they are now known) is still silly quick. It's a long distance cruiser as well as a fast mover. Top end power well above motorway speed limits is also supreme - a GTI just wouldn't give me that same silly grin
The S3 was the only one to ever come close but it just didn't quite have enough grunt - it was all turbo lag and no roar. Forced induction might kick you in the back at 2500 rpm+ but the R32 pulls from tickover all the way through the rev range, especially with a good remap.
Do try the S3, GTI, ED30 and 130 too - they are all very different cars for different markets. The RX8 has no torque whatsoever - I have blown many away with out any trouble at all, plus they are just as thirsty.
If depreciation and VED are concerns, don't get something with such a big engine, or consider a BMW 120d or 330d. Is there a big diesel 1 series?? How about an Audi A3 Quattro 2.0 TDI Sport? The 330d wil be the best soot chucker for hooning IMHO.
There will always be a market for hot hatches, but in the current economic climate I can't see residual values for cars like the R32 improving at all for a few years, until the economy grows again. Be prepared to keep a big engined hatch for a while or take a HUGE hit when you trade it in.
The R32 and S3 are insurance group 18. I pay £414 pa with several modifications, thanks to Adrian Flux.
BTW Welcome to Pistonheads, Tony McK
Just to add I have purchased a new R32 very very impressed 5 door, 3 kids and a dog, it really fits the bill very well put together had a golf plus before (wifes} had 3 subarus wrx sti but the R32 is in a diffrent league not compering 0-60 time or top speeds just the over all package is more refined and the cabin is a lot nicer place to be.
If it were me I'd buy a nice MK4 R32 as imho it looks better and a bit more special with the lovely Koenig buckets. If you're missing the forced induction with the money left over super/turbo charge it.
I also think the residuals will be proportionately stronger on the MK4 as it's kind of a classic.
A subject I can speak on with some knowledge is the RX8. The oil check is bo!!oxs quite frankly, will prob need a litre every 1500/20000 miles but no need to check at every fill up. A great introduction to RWD very forgiving chassis, but I really don't feel they're special enough to justify the terrible fuel consumption. I've driven a few 231 and a 192 and I had a PZ as my demonstrator once and the PZ is the only one worth thinking about.
I also think the residuals will be proportionately stronger on the MK4 as it's kind of a classic.
A subject I can speak on with some knowledge is the RX8. The oil check is bo!!oxs quite frankly, will prob need a litre every 1500/20000 miles but no need to check at every fill up. A great introduction to RWD very forgiving chassis, but I really don't feel they're special enough to justify the terrible fuel consumption. I've driven a few 231 and a 192 and I had a PZ as my demonstrator once and the PZ is the only one worth thinking about.
Dear All
Thanks for the effort in responding.
The camp does seem quite split between R32 and GTI lovers.
My current plan is to purchase a 1/2 year old R32 and keep it for 2/3 years. I probably shouldn't be so concerned about depreciation but I have been stung quite badly in the past when I let my hear rule my head.
The comapny car tax regime is very restrictive in terms of more polluting cars so that route is off the agenda.
The suggestion to consider a 130i or 123i is interesting but I am ashamed to admit to having a bit of an image problem with driving an entry level car (I can already hear the keyboards being struck with "what about a Caymen or a 430?" and "the S3 is an entry class model" responses).
I was sorely tempted by an Alpina D3 company car (bags for torque) but the monthlies were rather steep and the company was required to pay a £3k upfront payment at time of placing order.
Forced induction on an R32 would be astonishing but HPA and ATP have limited reach in UK and I shudder to think what strain it would put on the standard drivetrain. Sounds like a wallet wilting path to tread.
Thanks again for responses.
Thanks for the effort in responding.
The camp does seem quite split between R32 and GTI lovers.
My current plan is to purchase a 1/2 year old R32 and keep it for 2/3 years. I probably shouldn't be so concerned about depreciation but I have been stung quite badly in the past when I let my hear rule my head.
The comapny car tax regime is very restrictive in terms of more polluting cars so that route is off the agenda.
The suggestion to consider a 130i or 123i is interesting but I am ashamed to admit to having a bit of an image problem with driving an entry level car (I can already hear the keyboards being struck with "what about a Caymen or a 430?" and "the S3 is an entry class model" responses).
I was sorely tempted by an Alpina D3 company car (bags for torque) but the monthlies were rather steep and the company was required to pay a £3k upfront payment at time of placing order.
Forced induction on an R32 would be astonishing but HPA and ATP have limited reach in UK and I shudder to think what strain it would put on the standard drivetrain. Sounds like a wallet wilting path to tread.
Thanks again for responses.
TonyMcK said:
Running costs are one thing but depreciation is a greater financial factor in my experience.
The depreciation factor rather rules out the A3. Compare used values of the R32 vs the A3. It's a shame really as the Audi has a far nicer interior and really is a wolf-in-sheeps-clothing.Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff