E92 M3, destined for failure?
Discussion
Been thinking recently, with the current climate and uncertainty with the economic situation and the current downhill spiral the country is in the middle of, is there a place for such a car. A car which is one of M departments finest. An evolution of a great predecessor the E46 M3?
Cast your minds back to the early nineties, and the release of the E36 M3, a more modern and revolutionary design and change of direction regarding the marketing of the m3 compared to the hailed E30 homologation special race bred M3. It wasnt that welcome was it.
It was destined for failure, not only because the purists hated it but due to the recession we saw at that time also. Look now at the E36 M3, cheap as chips. Bought used, and abused. Worth less than its older brother... Not as cherished or as loved.
With the current climate, and prices dropping due to this, the E92 m3 future is not looking good. Will it get ''passed by'' and not remembered as one of the greats, also due to the fact the E46 M3 was so good, especially after the bland E36. A car now at a good price which still offers great satisfaction. A car that was made into a lightweight special (The CSL) something that will also not happen to the current car.
All this and with the E46 only being available in Coupe or vert form making the car somewhat more special? (the current car also 4 door like the e36, bmw making as much as they can from the M)
It was highly rated in the press when it first came out, as it rated highly today, a bargain super coupe for sure.
The current M3, for over double the price of a decent E46 M3 is offering how much more performance and fun comapared to the E46 M3, but with the added torture of major current depreciation.
Is this current climate killing the future of the M3, I know it will pick up there is always a demand for such a car. But will it be remembered for how good it is as much as the E46 will be?
your thoughts
Cast your minds back to the early nineties, and the release of the E36 M3, a more modern and revolutionary design and change of direction regarding the marketing of the m3 compared to the hailed E30 homologation special race bred M3. It wasnt that welcome was it.
It was destined for failure, not only because the purists hated it but due to the recession we saw at that time also. Look now at the E36 M3, cheap as chips. Bought used, and abused. Worth less than its older brother... Not as cherished or as loved.
With the current climate, and prices dropping due to this, the E92 m3 future is not looking good. Will it get ''passed by'' and not remembered as one of the greats, also due to the fact the E46 M3 was so good, especially after the bland E36. A car now at a good price which still offers great satisfaction. A car that was made into a lightweight special (The CSL) something that will also not happen to the current car.
All this and with the E46 only being available in Coupe or vert form making the car somewhat more special? (the current car also 4 door like the e36, bmw making as much as they can from the M)
It was highly rated in the press when it first came out, as it rated highly today, a bargain super coupe for sure.
The current M3, for over double the price of a decent E46 M3 is offering how much more performance and fun comapared to the E46 M3, but with the added torture of major current depreciation.
Is this current climate killing the future of the M3, I know it will pick up there is always a demand for such a car. But will it be remembered for how good it is as much as the E46 will be?
your thoughts
roofer said:
Jeez, there's some w
kers on here 
Will your bumchums be along in a minute to agree with you?
Do feel free to leave if you don't like the company. kers on here Will your bumchums be along in a minute to agree with you?Also if you do stay please try not to simply post crude abuse it does rather mark one out as a bit of a pleb. Now there's a good chap.
djohnson said:
roofer said:
Jeez, there's some wkers on here Will your bumchums be along in a minute to agree with you?
Do feel free to leave if you don't like the company. kers on here Will your bumchums be along in a minute to agree with you?Also if you do stay please try not to simply post crude abuse it does rather mark one out as a bit of a pleb. Now there's a good chap.
The OP has written a sensible post of which it deserves a similar reply.
Keep it on track or don't bother replying.
On Topic - I agree that the latest M3 might become a victim of the current economic climate, the E36 suffered to a degree (fair and interesting comparison). The prices will remain weak for at least the next two years at which point the current model will be too established to reverse this (other marques are equally suffering), however for me this doesn't stop it being a great car, but not one I would want to own.
Jules.
The E30 M3 was intended at the outset for racing - touring car, etc.
The E36 M3 was aimed at a slightly different market, call it a junior supercar, or high performance car more for the masses - as seen by the production figures.
And the E46 M3 was an evolution of the range - nothing radical.
The E92 M3 has definitely been hit by the current financial climate
Incidentally - does anyone have production figures for the various models - E30 M3, Evo, E36 M3, etc?
The E36 M3 was aimed at a slightly different market, call it a junior supercar, or high performance car more for the masses - as seen by the production figures.
And the E46 M3 was an evolution of the range - nothing radical.
The E92 M3 has definitely been hit by the current financial climate
Incidentally - does anyone have production figures for the various models - E30 M3, Evo, E36 M3, etc?
I think the E30 M3 stands out with its racing heritage, and is rare. All the other M3s are "just" good capable sports cars, whose values all drop with rising fuel prices and reducing disposable income...
So I think the E92 M3's resale value will drop a bit faster in today's climate, but does that make it a failure?
So I think the E92 M3's resale value will drop a bit faster in today's climate, but does that make it a failure?
tom g said:
So I think the E92 M3's resale value will drop a bit faster in today's climate, but does that make it a failure?
So that begs the question - what determines if a product is a failure?Its definitely a success on the engine and chassis dynamics. Personally I think its a step back on design (E36 and E46 M3s stood out more from the rest of the range).
Cyclone1 said:
Too many smart arse's on here nowadays.
The OP has written a sensible post of which it deserves a similar reply.
Keep it on track or don't bother replying.
Ok go on then sensible reply. To me we should seperate the economics of the car from the car. Yes it's expensive and yes for all sorts of reasons many not linked to the car itself it will lose value. Who cares? Buy cars you can easily afford. If the depreciaiton is potentially a problem then don't buy the car. Depreciation is also your friend if you want a second hand car. Economics aside from what I hear the E92 M3 is a great car (I can't comment I've never driven one). When I think of my old E46 M3 I don't think of the £ I paid in depreciation to own it I remember the engine note and performance beyond 4000rpm, strangely I always recall the fantastic headlights (which I've never found better on any car since) and finally it's ability as a comfortable long distance cruiser with plenty of space while still delivering great fun on b roads. Not many cars can give that blend of performance and practicality. My current (rather aged) 911 is great on the b roads but not really a good long distance cruiser. The OP has written a sensible post of which it deserves a similar reply.
Keep it on track or don't bother replying.
M cars = almost unique as a blend of practical and drivers cars and well worth the depreciation.
Edited by djohnson on Wednesday 15th October 09:34
I don't really agree with your statement that the E36 M3 was 'bland'. It was criticised at the time of it's release basically because its predecessor was all bulged arches and wings (it was basically a racing car after all) and BMW wanted to go after a broader market, the E36 M3 is the reason the M3 is what it is today, a top of the line, highly specced GT car.
The E36 is still a great handling car, it is (IMO) the least forgiving of all M3's so far made having quite a docile character when driven round town but a bit of an animal when pressed hard, especially near the limit of traction.
The E36 M3 did spawn a proper homologation model, the M3 GT, this is a rare car and was built to allow the car to go racing, it featured a modified inlet and exhaust system and suspension and all were LHD.
Unfortunately, the E36 will always attract the 'bland' sentiment due to the fact it looks vitually identical to the base cars (I suppose it is also the reason so many 'base' E36's have been tarted up to look like M3's). As has been mentioned, the fact that so many have been built means that currently they are in a grey area regarding value, to be honest, this is good for us as it means a good car can be picked up for a song. If you haven't had a go in one I highly recommend it, they really are good cars.
Apologies on going 'off on one' regarding the E36, you can go back to discussing the E92 now...
The E36 is still a great handling car, it is (IMO) the least forgiving of all M3's so far made having quite a docile character when driven round town but a bit of an animal when pressed hard, especially near the limit of traction.
The E36 M3 did spawn a proper homologation model, the M3 GT, this is a rare car and was built to allow the car to go racing, it featured a modified inlet and exhaust system and suspension and all were LHD.
Unfortunately, the E36 will always attract the 'bland' sentiment due to the fact it looks vitually identical to the base cars (I suppose it is also the reason so many 'base' E36's have been tarted up to look like M3's). As has been mentioned, the fact that so many have been built means that currently they are in a grey area regarding value, to be honest, this is good for us as it means a good car can be picked up for a song. If you haven't had a go in one I highly recommend it, they really are good cars.
Apologies on going 'off on one' regarding the E36, you can go back to discussing the E92 now...
I think "destined for failure" is a bit strong.
Maybe "released 50k car during global slowdown" is probably more accurate.
It's the first V8 M3 (excluding track specials) so it'll always be remembered for that and it's fundamentally a very very capable GT car.
But 20mpg and a with options price in excess of 50k means it's unlikely to be a commerical success in the next couple of years.
It won't be replaced till 2012? So I wouldn't write the car off just yet, it's not even half way through it's lifecycle.
Maybe we'll be getting a new M3 "Evo" in 2010?.
Maybe "released 50k car during global slowdown" is probably more accurate.
It's the first V8 M3 (excluding track specials) so it'll always be remembered for that and it's fundamentally a very very capable GT car.
But 20mpg and a with options price in excess of 50k means it's unlikely to be a commerical success in the next couple of years.
It won't be replaced till 2012? So I wouldn't write the car off just yet, it's not even half way through it's lifecycle.
Maybe we'll be getting a new M3 "Evo" in 2010?.
Could it be like the Lotus Carlton - released during economic slowdown/recession/house market crash and didnt sell anywhere near what they planned.
That is a great car & is exceptionally rare. But back in its time it was very expensive but 174mph++ for a 4 door sedan was ferrari speeds back then, youd need the current M5 to even match/get close to a ferrari today.
That is a great car & is exceptionally rare. But back in its time it was very expensive but 174mph++ for a 4 door sedan was ferrari speeds back then, youd need the current M5 to even match/get close to a ferrari today.
The fact it has come out in such an economic climate may be the thing that makes it the most sought after M since the E30 in a few years. Not many are being ordered new now and this will make the thing a pretty rare beast comapred to say the E46.
Those that are buying them for £35k now and can actually keep a car for 3 or 4 years will probably end up having some seriously cheap motoring.
Try and buy an E46 now and there are thousands to choose from at superb prices, try and choose an E92 M3 in 2014 and I don't think you will have half the choice and they won't be as cheap as an E46 is now either, even though they were £10k more new and already cheaper at a year old than the E46 was.
Those that are buying them for £35k now and can actually keep a car for 3 or 4 years will probably end up having some seriously cheap motoring.
Try and buy an E46 now and there are thousands to choose from at superb prices, try and choose an E92 M3 in 2014 and I don't think you will have half the choice and they won't be as cheap as an E46 is now either, even though they were £10k more new and already cheaper at a year old than the E46 was.
Welshbeef said:
djohnson said:
I'm sure that when people remember the E92 M3 in 10 years time they'll simply recall that it was inferior in all respcts to a mapped 335d.
No they will not totally different cars for different markets. V8 in the M3.
djohnson said:
Welshbeef said:
djohnson said:
I'm sure that when people remember the E92 M3 in 10 years time they'll simply recall that it was inferior in all respcts to a mapped 335d.
No they will not totally different cars for different markets. V8 in the M3.I cant think of any m car that could be described as a failure.
I think the m3 is an aspirational for buyers of the rest of the range and BMW have managed to have this 'sporting saloon' image yet their biggest selling models are probably 320d / 520d's.
The car itself was overpriced by £10K to start with - simply because so many 'spectulators' put their names on the order book thinking they could be johnny big balls and run one for six months and make a profit.
Therefore they're taking a kicking on the used market (that plus the credit crunch) just like the Z4M does.
At £55K new its a no go, but may next year at £25K for an early 07 one? Has to be a performance bargain, not a performance failure....
I think the m3 is an aspirational for buyers of the rest of the range and BMW have managed to have this 'sporting saloon' image yet their biggest selling models are probably 320d / 520d's.
The car itself was overpriced by £10K to start with - simply because so many 'spectulators' put their names on the order book thinking they could be johnny big balls and run one for six months and make a profit.
Therefore they're taking a kicking on the used market (that plus the credit crunch) just like the Z4M does.
At £55K new its a no go, but may next year at £25K for an early 07 one? Has to be a performance bargain, not a performance failure....
pgilc1 said:
I cant think of any m car that could be described as a failure.
I think the m3 is an aspirational for buyers of the rest of the range and BMW have managed to have this 'sporting saloon' image yet their biggest selling models are probably 320d / 520d's.
The car itself was overpriced by £10K to start with - simply because so many 'spectulators' put their names on the order book thinking they could be johnny big balls and run one for six months and make a profit.
Therefore they're taking a kicking on the used market (that plus the credit crunch) just like the Z4M does.
At £55K new its a no go, but may next year at £25K for an early 07 one? Has to be a performance bargain, not a performance failure....
I'd have to agree with you there. You're right about the halo effect they perform for others in their range and how overall these cars maintain BMW's sporty rep even though, as you say, their biggest sales are the more anonymous stuff.I think the m3 is an aspirational for buyers of the rest of the range and BMW have managed to have this 'sporting saloon' image yet their biggest selling models are probably 320d / 520d's.
The car itself was overpriced by £10K to start with - simply because so many 'spectulators' put their names on the order book thinking they could be johnny big balls and run one for six months and make a profit.
Therefore they're taking a kicking on the used market (that plus the credit crunch) just like the Z4M does.
At £55K new its a no go, but may next year at £25K for an early 07 one? Has to be a performance bargain, not a performance failure....
Curiously, I think the reason for some of the less effusive reviews of the E92 M3 might be more down to how sub-consciously people feel when in them. Over the past few years, BMW have made their insides far more stark and with i-Drive etc have reduced the button count. Therefore when sitting inside the new M3 you MAY get the feeling that it's, well, a little bland. Times of course have changed, but other manufacturers still make their cars feel special. There's nothing wrong with the performance of the new car, and I think with the bulging panels, for most it's a desirable object....At 25-30k it will be a great, great buy.........It's an excellent car. Special? Not sure. So with depreciation will be more highly regarded when it falls into peoples buying regions.
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