Here's a good one.......

[UIL9794]

My 94 4.0 Chim is a bit ill......but only some times.

First thing on a morning she starts first time i only need to blow on the ignition key and she fires. But after the 12 mile drive to work (in mostly free flowing traffic) and a nice rest all day till 6pm she then won't always restart. Sometimes she goes first time, but if she doesn't then i can be there for 10-15 mins trying. After she has started i'm now scared to stpo at the shops on the way home cos when she's hot there's not much chance of restarting after being off for 2-5mins. As you can imagine petrol stops can be embrassing to say the least.

I've now changed all the leads,coil, dizzy cap, rotor arm ,shes had a new air filter and a clean stepper motor(although once started idling and running is fine)

Those items needed changing anyway as they were past their best so i don't feel it was money wasted.

So what's wrong could it be a bad temp sensor - fuel or coolant?

[UpTheIron]

So when it won't start, what happens? Completely dead?

If so, I would bet it's the starter motor, maybe in combination with a less than tip-top battery.

Common problem due to proximity of the exhaust to the starter.

Recon starter motor will cost you around £75 + fitting, or a chunk more from a dealer.


>> Edited by UpTheIron on Tuesday 14th October 20:06

[UIL9794]

No No sorry i forgot to mention - fuel pump primes fine, starter turns over at a good speed (sometimes for 15 or so times without the battery going flat) everything seems fine but no firing at all. Then if i press the accelerator a little i can smeel the petrol so then it's flood time.

Lee

[UpTheIron]

So we've got fuel (from the smell), the engine is turning over (starter working), so no spark perhaps?

[UIL9794]

I've changed the leads, coil, dizzy cap rotor arm so there is and it's been tested. Is problems isn't consistent but is getting more common - if i catch it fisrt time then it runs great, if i don't i could be there a while getting it to catch and fire this is what makes me think it could be one of the temp sensors tricking the ecu into seeing something wrong and not getting the fuel mix right?

But i'm only guessing.

[.Mark]

Hi Lee, so this is a continuation of your earlier problem? Is this the same symptoms as before?

You have changed a lot, at the risk of sounding stupid, it's not something as simple as flooding is it?

[UIL9794]

More of an expansion of the problem. As for the flooding i'm not sure, when it's cranking it sounds like it hasn't go enough fuel or to lean perhaps, so if i then add a little accelerator pedal whilst cranking i can then smell the petrol so then it would appear to have flooded? This is what makes me think it could be the temp sensors.

[shpub]

As soon as you touch the throttle the ECU will go into oh my God acceleration and pump additional fuel through.

Could be the temp sensor but equally could also be almost any other part of the FI system and this includes the injectors dieing or leaking. The temp sensor is easy to test with a multmeter - the technique and callibration data is in the bible. Worth testing in situ as well out of the car.

Could be throttle pot, airflow meter, lamda sesnor fault. Just becareful you don't get sucked into the replace everything by stealth. If it ain't obvious seek help.

[UIL9794]

Hi Steve - Great book the bible.

Are you suggesting then that i should in theory be able to start the car without pressing the accelerator at all when warm/hot or just been run? It will start in this way on a morning first time everytime - just turn the key and it fires

Thanks Lee

[marco]

UIL9794 said:

Are you suggesting then that i should in theory be able to start the car without pressing the accelerator at all

Hi Lee

I *never* have to touch the throttle when starting my Griff 500 whether its first thing on a frosty morning or its been parked up all day in the Italian sun. It kind of blips itself.

BTW Did I "spot" you in Stourbridge the other day? (My griff is pearlecent yellow).

Cheers


Marco

[shpub]

UIL9794 said:

Hi Steve - Great book the bible. Are you suggesting then that i should in theory be able to start the car without pressing the accelerator at all when warm/hot or just been run? It will start in this way on a morning first time everytime - just turn the key and it fires Thanks Lee

I never touch the throttle. I just let the ECU do its stuff. It will automatically enrich the mixture if required.

[tobeee]

I never touch the throttle when I start my chim either. - It's plenty loud enough to wake the neighbours when I leave at 6am anyway!

[UIL9794]

How long would you expect to be turning it over for before it fires? Is it as soon as you turn the key or 1 second , 2 seconds or more?

[RCA]

I think mine turns over 2 maybe 3 times then fires up, no throttle needed. It might be worth taking the car for a run and bringing it back home. Then check the HT lead as on page 77 in the Bible 2, Does it spark when you try and start it??

[wixer]

A few years ago I had a TR8 and had a problem with hot starting. The car wasn't injected, it had a 4 barrel holley so I just put it down to fuel evaporation when the engine was hot. The problem was actually the starter motor. Although it seemed OK when turning the engine over, it was actually old and wearing out and as a result was drawing more current/voltage (forget which) from the cars electrical system and hence weakening the ignition voltage and therefore the spark was weak. This, combined with fuel evaporation, made it a git to start when warm. The problem was highlighted when I had it rolling road tuned at TVR Power/NCK Racing as it was then. The solution was easy, the guy at Power suggested dropping a wire from the coil (can't remember which side off hand but have it written down at home) to the low tension of the starter motor, to close the loop off and allow the ignition to operate at it's correct voltage. It worked a treat and the car started, when warm, a hell of a lot better. And the best thing was it cost "F" all. Maybe this may help you, before you start on the expensive components. It seems to me alot of people on PH jump straight to changing expensive items rather than looking for easier, cheaper solutions. Most of the problems with my Griff have been down to poor/dirty electrical connections and these have cost nothing to fix.

[UIL9794]

Thanks for that wixer, i hadn't really considered the starter motor as it cranks over fine and at a good speed. I'm not sure as this would be the problem though as if it was old and drawing more current the battery would go flat quicker? - but this isn't the case as sometimes i can turn it over 15-20 times with no sign of the battery losing power.

Lee

[shpub]

The ignition system is electronic and is designed to work well with the lower voltages that occur when cranking. Nothing to say that a bad connection is a problem or some heat induced intermittent failure though.

Totally agree with the check the simple things first especially connectors.

[UIL9794]

Thank you for all the comments guys' much appreciated. I'm off work this afternoon so i'll give all your comments a go.

Lee

[david beer]

I have a code reader if any help, i have sent it out quite a few times!!

[rat]

Might be the ignition module. Black plastic box bolted onto the bracket for the dizzy. That's just as likely to fail when cold though, so I expect the heat-related issues already mentioned are more likely.

Hope you've already got it.

Andy