8 Series...I need to talk about it!

[The Stiglet]

Happy New Year to everyone! I normally hang around the TVR area (not that I have one) but I was thinking about a Griff 500 before Christmas. However, I'm thinking I should save some money like a good boy and save up for a deposit on a house with the market the way it is.

I now only want to spend around £6000 as opposed to £15,000. I did a shortlist of what I was looking for in a car,I will do around 6,000 miles in per year, and it came out like this:

1. Minimal depreciation if not actually increasing in price. (Therefore, classic potential)
2. Looks/Performance (couldn't separate them)
3. Comfort
4. Practicality (back seats would be great even if they are for midgets)

So, with the Griff out and the Chimps being slightly too expensive for a 'big' engine, the car list came out as:

1. Porsche 928
2. BMW 840 ci 4.4 Sport
3. BMW E39 M3 Evo

(I've been using my Pa's 335cd for about a year now and think it is a fantastic all rounder so I'm semi using this as my basis.)

1 and 3 are quick. 2 is pretty slow but more comfortable and practical. I actually think for me it is the most beautiful car and gets a lot of attention - I love it! BUT what options can I get for more power?

1. Chips?
2. Exhaust
3. Um..?

Please let me know what you think, I know we all have different opinions but that's part of the joy of asking!

Cheers
Pierce

[sprouting]

theres an 840ci on the long termers fleet in the bmw car magazine at the moment, it might be worth getting some back issues, good cars but watch out for front suspension issues.

[E31Shrew]

sprouting said:

theres an 840ci on the long termers fleet in the bmw car magazine at the moment, it might be worth getting some back issues, good cars but watch out for front suspension issues.

I have a 98 840 Sport. Never heard of a potential front suspension issue in the past. This is my 2nd one. The first was new in 98 and did over 80000 trouble free miles in 18 months. This one I purchased 3 years ago and only issue has been an ABS warning light problem that was cured for £30.00 or so.

Make sure you try and go for a 97-99 Sport 4.4 Avoid the 4.0 engines if you can. A few about but I think a good one will cost you over £6k.

Have a look at Derins site www.bmwclassics.co.uk

and clube31.net

Good luck...They really are superb cars.

[The Stiglet]

Thanks guys, will have a look.

As a matter of interest what is the car like without the 'Sport' package? I am looking for the 4.4 Sport as I once read in Classic Car mag January 2007 that it was the equivalent to what would be the M8 of the range. Of course, this probably takes into account that the CSI is not in budget!

I know it has a front air dam and rear diffuser, this apparently helps the understeer from the standard car - true?

Suspension must be different - too hard or just right?

Thanks in advance.

[Chester Drawers]

You need to have a look at www.8er.org it has lots of information on the 8 series and you'll find lots of pre-purchase buying tips. On the front suspension, the front thrust bushes are prone to wear quickly (the 8 is a heavy car) and this can cause a bad steering wobble. Harder bushes from the M5 cure this problem and last longer and now there are alternatives available using Polyurethene that will last even longer. Another must-do modification is to fit camber correction plates that vastly improve the steering feel and the sharpness of the steering.

The earlier 4.0 (M60) engines had a recall issue concerning "Nikasil" that reacted with sulphur petrol and caused accelerated cylinder wear. Cares affected should have received a new engine under BMW recall so you probably won't see this issue (it was more common in the US because fo the petrol quality). The later 4.4 engine (M62)were better in a number of ways and they will be mated to the far superior Steptronic automatic gearbox. There are some manual 4.4's but they are very rare. The 8 series is not a slow car, it will get from 0 to 60 in around 6 seconds (5.6 for the CSi), my 1997 850Ci (M73) which isn't standard any more will do 0 to 60 in under 6 seconds, de-restricted I have also seen 174mph (on the A8 near Munich)

Get across to 8er.org and you'll find a lot of information. There are a number of 8 owners that post here too so I'm sure you'll find some more contributions
Cheers

[Chester Drawers]

Forgot to mention, Chips = Wokke - look on the 'bay or his website www.wokke.de

Exhaust - plenty to chose from, depends on what sound you like and the depth of your pockets, I quite like Eisenmann

[E31Shrew]

The Stiglet said:

Thanks guys, will have a look.

As a matter of interest what is the car like without the 'Sport' package? I am looking for the 4.4 Sport as I once read in Classic Car mag January 2007 that it was the equivalent to what would be the M8 of the range. Of course, this probably takes into account that the CSI is not in budget!

I know it has a front air dam and rear diffuser, this apparently helps the understeer from the standard car - true?

Suspension must be different - too hard or just right?

Thanks in advance.

Wouldn't of though the non Sports package was equivalent to the 'proposed' M8 as that as far as I recall had the V12 5.6 [ CSi] set up. Now scrapped so I hear! Again the diffuser and front airdam is probably more cosmetic than effective. To be honest, the car performs admirably as a comfortable cruiser as opposed to a 'hell for leather' twisty road beast!

[sniff diesel]

The Stiglet said:

3. BMW E39 M3 Evo

E39 M5:



E36 M3 Evo:



HTH

[The Stiglet]

Yep, good point. I reverted to default mode when typing that from previous searches. Wow.

[sprouting]

sorry i wasnt more specific earlier on the suspension front, the 840 came with the edc suspension as an option which is very expensive to fix,a company called sportsline suspension can refurbish these units but its still expensive. just something to be aware of, good luck.

[Chester Drawers]

sprouting said:

sorry i wasnt more specific earlier on the suspension front, the 840 came with the edc suspension as an option which is very expensive to fix,a company called sportsline suspension can refurbish these units but its still expensive. just something to be aware of, good luck.

True, EDC can be expensive to repair, there are some companies claiming to do it for a cheaper price. You can also convert to non EDC suspension fairly easily.

[E31Shrew]

The Stiglet said:

Happy New Year to everyone! I normally hang around the TVR area (not that I have one) but I was thinking about a Griff 500 before Christmas. However, I'm thinking I should save some money like a good boy and save up for a deposit on a house with the market the way it is.

I now only want to spend around £6000 as opposed to £15,000. I did a shortlist of what I was looking for in a car,I will do around 6,000 miles in per year, and it came out like this:

1. Minimal depreciation if not actually increasing in price. (Therefore, classic potential)
2. Looks/Performance (couldn't separate them)
3. Comfort
4. Practicality (back seats would be great even if they are for midgets)

So, with the Griff out and the Chimps being slightly too expensive for a 'big' engine, the car list came out as:

1. Porsche 928
2. BMW 840 ci 4.4 Sport
3. BMW E39 M3 Evo

(I've been using my Pa's 335cd for about a year now and think it is a fantastic all rounder so I'm semi using this as my basis.)

1 and 3 are quick. 2 is pretty slow but more comfortable and practical. I actually think for me it is the most beautiful car and gets a lot of attention - I love it! BUT what options can I get for more power?

1. Chips?
2. Exhaust
3. Um..?

Please let me know what you think, I know we all have different opinions but that's part of the joy of asking!

Cheers
Pierce

Have you bought one yet?

[Job38]

Have a look here, posted a couple of days ago: http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[Talkwrench]

This may raise controversy, but in my opinion if you want a fast 840, buy an 850!
I spend most of my time driving 840's and 850's that I'm either maintaining or modifying for people and I have to say that back to back, an 840 feels a bit like an 850 with an engine problem.
Now, I know the arguments about heavier engine and handling etc, but the fact is that the V12 is such a creamy, unbelievably torquey engine that this argument pales into insignificance. The standard 4.4 just isn't as well suited to the e31 - in my opinion.
An 850 with a few suspension mods, good tyres and properly set up geo is a truly great GT and will eat miles like few others. The running costs are not much different to an 840 and you have that wonderful surge of torque with the added bonus of a proper V12 engine to drop into conversation.....

Try them both, but make it a decently long test drive. Though the 840 may feel ok as you drive off, I guarantee that the 850 will seduce you across country - and certainly across continents!
If either of them feel sloppy or wallowy, theyre tired and need a suspension revamp.

Your selection is interesting. A 928 is a great car but doesnt quite have the looks or presence of the 8 series. A harsher character, as well. The M3 is quite different. Light, lively and agile in comparison. More of a fast A to B than a fast A to Z if you get my meaning! Exciting, nonetheless.

If you need any more help, just email me and I'll be pleased to advise.

[sprouting]

theres two 850s with manual gearbox on ebay at the moment, good job ive got no money:

[The Stiglet]

Thanks guys for all the information, really helping to convince me that this is the car for me.

Haven't bought one yet but making a call today to see if one is free on Saturday for a go.

Talkwrench, thanks for your comments and the opportunity to message you. I went over to some of the forums that have been mentioned and either they are in the process of being updated or they are so complicated to find stuff in the forums that you lose concentration. So your help might be very useful in the future!

The problem with the 850i is I cannot afford the 850ci! I will try and find one to try but there seems to be way more 4.4's around. Plus the 840ci is newer. Does the 850i have the semi-auto box option like the 4.4? I really would like that in the car as there will be times I like to take over from autopilot. Tried to find a manual but cannot find any at all

Cheers

[The Stiglet]

Just saw your post Sprouting...will go hunting

[Job38]

sprouting said:

theres two 850s with manual gearbox on ebay at the moment, good job ive got no money:

Someone please get them bought, they're as rare as rocking horse poo!
V12 with a manual box!
(you'll even get the same mpg as a V8)

[EightFortySeeEye]

E31Shrew said:

sprouting said:

theres an 840ci on the long termers fleet in the bmw car magazine at the moment, it might be worth getting some back issues, good cars but watch out for front suspension issues.

I have a 98 840 Sport. Never heard of a potential front suspension issue in the past. This is my 2nd one. The first was new in 98 and did over 80000 trouble free miles in 18 months. This one I purchased 3 years ago and only issue has been an ABS warning light problem that was cured for £30.00 or so.

Make sure you try and go for a 97-99 Sport 4.4 Avoid the 4.0 engines if you can. A few about but I think a good one will cost you over £6k.

Have a look at Derins site www.bmwclassics.co.uk

and clube31.net

Good luck...They really are superb cars.

I love the 840's great cars Ive got the 840 4.0 and its still great to me

oh and e31 shrew how did u get that abs light problem sorted i have the same issue would be VERY happy to get it sorted for 30 considering i am going to sell it soon

[derin100]

The Stiglet said:

Thanks guys for all the information, really helping to convince me that this is the car for me.

Haven't bought one yet but making a call today to see if one is free on Saturday for a go.

Talkwrench, thanks for your comments and the opportunity to message you. I went over to some of the forums that have been mentioned and either they are in the process of being updated or they are so complicated to find stuff in the forums that you lose concentration. So your help might be very useful in the future!

The problem with the 850i is I cannot afford the 850ci! I will try and find one to try but there seems to be way more 4.4's around. Plus the 840ci is newer. Does the 850i have the semi-auto box option like the 4.4? I really would like that in the car as there will be times I like to take over from autopilot. Tried to find a manual but cannot find any at all

Cheers

Stiglet,

There's a further problem with the 850Ci for you beyond not being able to afford one: The 850Ci was never made in RHD!!!

The 850Ci has the later 5.4L V12 engine with 326 bhp as opposed to the engine in the early 850i and unfortunately this car was never available in the U.K. and is a LHD only model.

Without getting too tide-up in the nuances of each model the answer now (IMHO) has to be buy the very best example of which ever model you can find. Really good ones of any type are getting harder to find.

As an aside...I currently have a very low mileage E38 750iL that I'm driving on a daily basis...and that DOES have the V12 5.4L. I've had it for a week and I would have to say a couple of things. Yes...it is extremely smooth and creamy but somehow a bit "bland" along with it....and it's not as though the V8 is exacty 'rough', is it? Furthermore...it's quite thirsty...so if mpg is of any concern to you then I would dismiss the V12 vs the V8.

Finally...and as no more than an interesting aside...as on a weight basis this is an unfair comparison I know..but a friend had this 5.4L V12 up against an E39 540i and at ALL speeds seemingly the 540i left it on every single occasion. I wasn't there to witness it but I can believe it as even my very heavily spec'd (basically almost spec'd as high as a 750il including double glazing) feels like it's faster than the 750iL. However, it should be remembered that the 8-Series is a much heavier car than the E39.

Just to give the flip opinion...If I were thinking about an 8-Series to buy and drive on a daily basis now would I think about an 850i?....No, probably not. Mostly they're too old , too thirsty and not fast enough to make any difference. Just IMHO.

Personally, with the OP budget in mind and if genuinely fast performance were important to me I think I'd struggle to not to buy the E36 M3 instead. Lots more power in a car that weighs far, far less!

£6K on an 8-Series and then trying to make it 'quick' within that budget? I'm not sure that's a wise idea?

Edited by derin100 on Thursday 22 January 20:32

Edited by derin100 on Thursday 22 January 20:41