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tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd January 2009 quote quote all
Got in car tonight, 'death rattle' as I start it. No, not because it's diesel, but because of clutch.

It has not been slipping at all, but I thought I had noticed in the last 500 miles or so that it was a bit 'notchy' - but only very very slightly, if at all.

Clutch seems to have gone completely - you can start it in gear to move it, but it's not pleasant. Pedal is nearly on the floor and you can't really dip the clutch no matter how hard you try it.

Is this the full clutch that's gone or just one thing. What does it need to replace, full clutch kit and new release bearing ? And upset me, is it a complete horror on these (the 16V 150 hp version)..... ?

ta as always

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd January 2009 quote quote all
go on, someone who is still sober must know what it is

plg101

4,106 posts

97 months

[news] 
Thursday 22nd January 2009 quote quote all
tonker said:
go on, someone who is still sober must know what it is
On my 93 it was the dual mass flywheel. Clutch was okay. Apparently they are a weak point on the 1.9tid (120 and 150hp)...

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
plg101 said:
tonker said:
go on, someone who is still sober must know what it is
On my 93 it was the dual mass flywheel. Clutch was okay. Apparently they are a weak point on the 1.9tid (120 and 150hp)...
ta - internet seems to point to that too. Seems to be a weak spot on most turbo diesels these days....

I am surprised that a flywheel faiulre means the clutch just stops working - I'd have thought it would work but shudder.....

parapaul

2,828 posts

85 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
Yep, sounds like DMF. Well known weak point on this engine - don't suppose it's still under warranty?
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tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
parapaul said:
Yep, sounds like DMF. Well known weak point on this engine - don't suppose it's still under warranty?
It'll be another SCR conversation I think.... 44K and 3 and a half years old....

parapaul

2,828 posts

85 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
tonker said:
parapaul said:
Yep, sounds like DMF. Well known weak point on this engine - don't suppose it's still under warranty?
It'll be another SCR conversation I think.... 44K and 3 and a half years old....
Arse. That's going to hurt the purse strings...

plg101

4,106 posts

97 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
tonker said:
plg101 said:
tonker said:
go on, someone who is still sober must know what it is
On my 93 it was the dual mass flywheel. Clutch was okay. Apparently they are a weak point on the 1.9tid (120 and 150hp)...
ta - internet seems to point to that too. Seems to be a weak spot on most turbo diesels these days....

I am surprised that a flywheel faiulre means the clutch just stops working - I'd have thought it would work but shudder.....


Mine went at 44k miles, < 3yrs old. Warranty paid - £1000 including some other bits. You might get lucky with some goodwill if it is a known deign flaw, bit like the swirl valve thing on the 1.9's...

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
It's Bell & Colvill getting the car in.

TBH, they'd been reasonable before on things. And had no problem with getting on the phone to Saab and dealing and getting 50%.

I use the car properly, but it does spend 80% of its time in 6th at 2000-2500 revs.

Can someone with a technical bent explain to me why if the flywheel fails that the clutch basically fails to work - I [think I] get what the clutch does and how it works, but I don't see why the clutch would not work if the flywheel went - I'd expect it to be shuddery (the car) as the balancing action of the flywheel is gone, but not why the clutch doesn't work [the pedal is as if the clutch has gone and there feels like there is only resistance right at the bottom of the pedal as you mash it deep into the carpet]. Or is that telling me it's the clutch, not the flywheel (the telephone diagnosis from B&C seems to say flywheel too) ?

Sorry for the muppet mechanic question.....

paintman

2,193 posts

77 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
DMF are made up of several components. An animation (bit long-winded but worth following) is at http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ&feat...


Munter

25,370 posts

128 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
Anybody know if the same DMF is fitted to teh 2.0DTi? Or have I dodged a bullet?

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
paintman said:
DMF are made up of several components. An animation (bit long-winded but worth following) is at http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ&feat...
is that the 'blue' one (no, not like that for those across from P&P).

That's great in telling me what a DMF does, but now why it would affect the clutch.....

lord summerisle

7,795 posts

112 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
tonker said:
paintman said:
DMF are made up of several components. An animation (bit long-winded but worth following) is at http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ&feat...
is that the 'blue' one (no, not like that for those across from P&P).

That's great in telling me what a DMF does, but now why it would affect the clutch.....
i'm guessing here... but if the connections between the 2 flywheels... like the damper spring goes, then the flywheel is turning, but the other one isnt.. and it could be if one of the fly wheels has moved it might be pushing the clutch onto the clutch plate more, till its at full release... (i could be talking bulls dangly bits tho)


ps, if the clutch had gone - wouldnt it be the other way round, you just have to dip the clutch slightly as its so worn, that you dont have to press muchg to release it.
going the other way, if you where loosing hydrulic pressure on the clutch, then you would need to press the clutch all the way to the floor till it released. - this was how it was on my MX5 - the clutch slave cylinder srung a leak, and it only released the clutch right at the very last of the travel, where as when the clutch was worn, it needed little movement on the clutch pedal to relase it

Of course of the dual mass fly wheel is a common problem, then the above may not be relavent.



Edited by lord summerisle on Friday 23 January 12:41

Munter

25,370 posts

128 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
lord summerisle said:
tonker said:
paintman said:
DMF are made up of several components. An animation (bit long-winded but worth following) is at http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8q3uzQ&feat...
is that the 'blue' one (no, not like that for those across from P&P).

That's great in telling me what a DMF does, but now why it would affect the clutch.....
i'm guessing here... but if the connections between the 2 flywheels... like the damper spring goes, then the flywheel is turning, but the other one isnt..
Wouldn't that disconnect have the same effect as using the clutch? I'm thinking more that the two parts of the flywheel have moved apart from each other and now theres no space for the clutch to move away from it....?

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
Munter said:
Wouldn't that disconnect have the same effect as using the clutch? I'm thinking more that the two parts of the flywheel have moved apart from each other and now theres no space for the clutch to move away from it....?
I came from there, but surely a clutch is only under load when you press it - it would be an inherent weak point otherwise - so in effect it's always connecting engine to a gear and therefore drive unless you depress the clutch - hence a car will drive even with a knackered clutch so long as you can select a gear in the first place and why the clutch 'slips' as it's engaged.

Hence I am still stuck as to etc. etc.... and obviously why I am not an engineer....

plg101

4,106 posts

97 months

[news] 
Friday 23rd January 2009 quote quote all
tonker said:
It's Bell & Colvill getting the car in.

TBH, they'd been reasonable before on things. And had no problem with getting on the phone to Saab and dealing and getting 50%.

I use the car properly, but it does spend 80% of its time in 6th at 2000-2500 revs.

Can someone with a technical bent explain to me why if the flywheel fails that the clutch basically fails to work - I [think I] get what the clutch does and how it works, but I don't see why the clutch would not work if the flywheel went - I'd expect it to be shuddery (the car) as the balancing action of the flywheel is gone, but not why the clutch doesn't work [the pedal is as if the clutch has gone and there feels like there is only resistance right at the bottom of the pedal as you mash it deep into the carpet]. Or is that telling me it's the clutch, not the flywheel (the telephone diagnosis from B&C seems to say flywheel too) ?

Sorry for the muppet mechanic question.....
Mine was the same; almost all motorway mileage, very little stop start town driving. Went quite quickly in the end, I thought the notchiness was a GM gearbox feature.

Have to say it was the least reliable car I have ever owned, which was a shame as I was a big Saab fan. My GM900 SE turbo is still going strong at 99k miles, 11 years and only its 2nd clutch. Not everyones favourite car, but has been brilliantly reliable, and the bodywork still looks like new. Still have it, but switched to an Audi A6 3.0tdi as the mile muncher and haven't looked back.

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th January 2009 quote quote all
now it gets odd.


AA man turns up to trailer it in. Presses clutch and it all works fine, 36 hours later. He's followed me in and it drove fine (and if that was you near the A3 in your Mx-5 with the two fire engines in attendance, that won't polish out...) - AA man's best guess is a dodgy clutch cylinder.....


parapaul

2,828 posts

85 months

[news] 
Saturday 24th January 2009 quote quote all
That's a relief, if he's right...

tonker

Original Poster:

47,219 posts

135 months

[news] 
Sunday 1st February 2009 quote quote all
DMF.

Saab paid a chunk. Seems OK now.

Annoying, but the way it goes.

wheels1

197 posts

75 months

[news] 
Tuesday 17th May 2011 quote quote all
I thought i would resurrect this thread as a few years have passed, just to see how many more of Saabs Duel mass flywheels have failed?
My wife's sport wagon needed one at 2 years old and 25,000 miles and now just needed another one after another two years and and 30,000 miles this time i had to pay and the discounted cost with a new clutch was 1100 pounds!!!!
This seems to be a design fault to me, has anyone else had the same problem?

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