RE: Esprit vs Noble
Friday 15th February 2002
Esprit vs Noble
Evo magazine compares the Noble M12 with the Esprit - the result may surprise you!
Many people might consider the Esprit a bit long inthe tooth now. It's fashionable amongst journos to knock the interior andcriticise the gearbox limitations etc, so it comes as a breath of fresh air forthe respected Evo magazine come out in favour of the Esprit when testing itagainst the the popular Noble M12 GTO.
The M12 is a modern masterpiece and Evo make thevalid point that the Esprit may have a few shortcomings due to its vintage, butit is also a highly developed car. It was a close call and both cars are awarded4 stars but it's confirmation that the Esprit is still a benchmark car.
Link: www.evo.co.uk
Discussion
Never driven either, but after EVO slated my Civic Type R in favour of the Renault 172 they've gone down a fair bit in my estimations.
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pikeynet/stuff/typer.htm
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/pikeynet/stuff/typer.htm
I was amazed to read this article, even "Autocar" (Lotus unofficial mouth peace) in their recent review of the latest Esprit V8 were struggling to say anything nice about the car, and then "Evo" tells the world it can't choose between the "world beating" Noble and the poor tired old Esprit. I spend a great deal of time at track days, and have never ever seen an Esprit of any description perform well. I had a GT3 esprit on my company fleet, and at the time "Autocar" had suggested that this light weight stripped out racer would be a great track day car, my experience showed that two laps of Goodwood and the car had no brakes at all ! I also had an early Elise, and whilst the press were talking about "new standards of road holding" I was terrifying myself on track, findind out the hard way that you can't trust journalists, particularly where Lotus are concerned ! Now its common knowledge that the Elise is a very tricky car on the limit, the hundreds that have been crashed on track show this to be true, you just can't trust journalists. By the way, after purchasing all this expensive kit, i'm now in my third year of running ten thousand Pounds worth of Porsche 968CS, which has been totally reliable, fantastic fun to drive, and surprisingly quick, and spacious enough inside to carry a complete set of track wheels and tyres!
Regards, Tim
Regards, Tim
You don't think its something to do with your driving style?
I've certainly not heard of hundreds or elises losing it on track days, in fact quite the opposite. The Elise can be tricky in the wet due to mid-engine configuration BUT ALL mid-engine cars have the same characteristic eg Mclaren F1 can be tail happy.
The fact the Esprit has lasted so long is testiment to how good the car is. Having seen the Noble (but not had chance to drive it
) I must say that I would prefer the Esprit on looks alone, the Nobel looked like a kit-car, whereas the Esprit V8 looks like a race car. Also its clear you haven't seen the Esprit driven by a racing driver, it certainly holds its own on the track (GT2 3 years ago for example).
Looking at all your other posts, Tim I suspect you just have something against Lotus.
I've certainly not heard of hundreds or elises losing it on track days, in fact quite the opposite. The Elise can be tricky in the wet due to mid-engine configuration BUT ALL mid-engine cars have the same characteristic eg Mclaren F1 can be tail happy.
The fact the Esprit has lasted so long is testiment to how good the car is. Having seen the Noble (but not had chance to drive it
) I must say that I would prefer the Esprit on looks alone, the Nobel looked like a kit-car, whereas the Esprit V8 looks like a race car. Also its clear you haven't seen the Esprit driven by a racing driver, it certainly holds its own on the track (GT2 3 years ago for example). Looking at all your other posts, Tim I suspect you just have something against Lotus.
Sadly you are right, I do have something against Lotus. I've been a life long Lotus fan, Chapman was a hero in my school days, Lotus should be where Porsche are now, but they are not, they just never quite manage to deliver. The current philosophy seems to be to always cosy up to the press and hope they will "for the good of the future of the company" not tell the truth. The Elise should have been fabulous, it looks fabulous ( Mk 1 ), and i'm told that a good one is fabulous, but not too many seem to "luck in" to being correctly set up. The dealer network seem in the main to be everything that is bad about buying, and maintaining cars. The enthusiasts are great, God knows why Lotus deserve such a loyal bunch, and just maybe thats what is why they aren't successful, because they never get a good kicking for not doing it right, the press are always kind, the enthusiast buyers are always forgiving, and the Dealers just take the money !
By the way I think you will find the racing Esprit to which you refer was rather far removed from the product the punters can buy.
I do own a Lotus, and I will go to the grave with it, but I use it sparingly, when the weather is nice !
regards, Tim
By the way I think you will find the racing Esprit to which you refer was rather far removed from the product the punters can buy.
I do own a Lotus, and I will go to the grave with it, but I use it sparingly, when the weather is nice !
regards, Tim
Fair enough. I must have been lucky 'cos the elise and exige I drove were excellent, plenty of feedback and excellent fun.
I agree with your comments about dealerships. The first one I had were so cr@p that I wrote to Lotus got a letter of appology and a day at Hethel and their track. (which was nice, but the dealership service didn't do Lotus any favours). The one I have now to do the service is a different kettle of fish though, expensive but excellent. I can quite readily understand people complaining about Lotus if they had a dealer and service like my first one though.
One interesting point is I haven't liked the 340r an the new Elise (M2) and they've done the same to the Esprit, in that they have made the rear end too ferrari esk for me.
Certainly my next car will be either a set-up and improved engine Elise or Exige.
Cheers
I agree with your comments about dealerships. The first one I had were so cr@p that I wrote to Lotus got a letter of appology and a day at Hethel and their track. (which was nice, but the dealership service didn't do Lotus any favours). The one I have now to do the service is a different kettle of fish though, expensive but excellent. I can quite readily understand people complaining about Lotus if they had a dealer and service like my first one though.
One interesting point is I haven't liked the 340r an the new Elise (M2) and they've done the same to the Esprit, in that they have made the rear end too ferrari esk for me.
Certainly my next car will be either a set-up and improved engine Elise or Exige.
Cheers
quote:
I spend a great deal of time at track days, and have never ever seen an Esprit of any description perform well.
In Autocar's anual 'Best Drivers Car' track test 1998 an Esprit V8 GT lapped Silverstone 3rd fastest out of 14 performance cars, beating the 996 Porsche, Mitsubishi Evo 5 and the Elise Sport(190bhp/Track biased Ltd edition). Only being beaten by a Caterham Superlight R and the Ferrari 550M. Can't be that bad.
Present updated Esprit actually looks a bit kit car to me. Rear lights look like a stuck on afterthought and the scoops and spoilers don't fit the image. I think the Esprit 350 when it first came out looked the best out of all the cosmetic changes. Won't comment on whether the Noble looks better as I have one on order!
quote:
I find this comment a bit odd. All the scoop bits have been unchanged since '96 haven't they?
Mike,
Absolutely correct, the front scoop is that of the Sport 350, the rear spoiler is the same as that fitted to the V8-SE for the last 3-4 years
The only external difference on the new Esprit is the rear lights which, in reality, *are* a stuck on afterthought if you think about it!
John
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