New boiler required - HELP !!!

[mrspw]

Hi there,

Am new to Pistonheads so please be gentle! Just heard today that our Potterton Netaheat Profile boiler has given up the ghost. Apparently it is "very old" and the parts are now "very expensive". There are, allegedly, "kettling noises" and the pilot light keeps going out for no reason, occasionally coming back on or not, as it pleases!

So, a replacement 24kw conventional condensing boiler is now required - can anyone please advise us on the following:-

(a) whats the best boiler to go for (ie efficiency, good value etc)
(b) how much approx should fitting the new boiler cost (prices seem to vary wildly particularly as we're in London)
(c) when fitting new boiler, should the whole system be flushed/cleaned as a matter of course (as old boilers are full of sludge I believe) and if so how much to budget for this
(d) anything else I've forgotten as I've not a bl**dy clue what I'm on about being that I am a woman and plumbing and i don't obviously don't understand each other

Many thanks to all in advance
mrspw

[Engineer1]

When I had people out to quote for replacing my boiler one thing they did say was that new boilers may well need a larger bore gas pipe to them. On pressure flushing the guy from British Gas swore blind that it was essential the guy from a smaller local firm said avoid it like the plague a it could burst pipes etc and as they where under the concrete floor it would be a bugger to find the faults and to fix them, having said that my central heating was C30 years old.

[mrspw]

Thanks Engineer1 - thankfully the bore pipe is the correct size (phew!) - flushing the system worries me too, though this boiler is about 15 years old we think.

[-C-]

As for boiler makes, every manufacturer has horror stories, and having dealt with a lot of gas engineers, whatever you have, they will p*ss and moan about it. They are all graded by efficiency now so you can see whats best in that respect, and budget wise, well stick with a known brand for convenience of spares, but other than that, there didn't seem to be any to specifically 'avoid'.

To have a boiler hung on the wall, we had quotes varying between £350 & £1000, which included the commissioning and registering. The cheap one was a friend of a friend type affair which we went with. He was Corgi registered so it didn't matter in that respect. It looks like he did a good job in my limited knowledge.

You will have to get it registered, which the person should do as part of the deal. Corgi is now dead & its Gas Safe instead. Not entirely sure what this means to end users, probably more cost and more pointless training for the engineers...

[ARH]

When my boiler broke I listened to all kinds of rubbish about not be able to get parts, can't repair one of those s it is against the law. But I could have a new one fitted for between £1700 and £3000 depnding on who I went with. So after a bit of research I found out where to buy the bits from. I got another engineer round. The conversation went like this

Him - you can't get the parts for these old things
me - yes see this website.
him - oh but they are very difficult to take apart
me - No here is the instruction manuel, it is only 6 screws and 2 pipes
him - oh ok then we can do.

£600 later and it was fixed.

Now I am not saying all heating engineers are crooks, but in my experience they do need to be told they don't have to fit new all the time.

[JeepJunkie]

ARH said:

When my boiler broke I listened to all kinds of rubbish about not be able to get parts, can't repair one of those s it is against the law. But I could have a new one fitted for between £1700 and £3000 depnding on who I went with. So after a bit of research I found out where to buy the bits from. I got another engineer round. The conversation went like this

Him - you can't get the parts for these old things
me - yes see this website.
him - oh but they are very difficult to take apart
me - No here is the instruction manuel, it is only 6 screws and 2 pipes
him - oh ok then we can do.

£600 later and it was fixed.

Now I am not saying all heating engineers are crooks, but in my experience they do need to be told they don't have to fit new all the time.

Totally agree, the web is your friend. It is very easy to find fixes to most faults on appliances however old and where to get the parts. So far I've fixed washing machines, dishwashers, electric showers, combis etc and saved a bundle. Though I must add if I'm unsure I speak to a pro.

[Ferg]

Paddy_n_Murphy said:

Most used to be 15mm now need to be 22mm

Not strictly true.
If correctly sized a small boiler close to the meter might actually get away with 15mm, but conversely 22mm might well not be enough.
If you are a long way from the meter 28mm or even 35mm might be required particularly with some og the 40-odd kW combination boilers.

As far as powerflushing goes... I'd NEVER fit a new combination boiler on a system without powerflushing. Heat only boilers are not such a problem.

[mycroft]

mrspw said:

Hi there,

Am new to Pistonheads so please be gentle! Just heard today that our Potterton Netaheat Profile boiler has given up the ghost. Apparently it is "very old" and the parts are now "very expensive". There are, allegedly, "kettling noises" and the pilot light keeps going out for no reason, occasionally coming back on or not, as it pleases!

So, a replacement 24kw conventional condensing boiler is now required - can anyone please advise us on the following:-

(a) whats the best boiler to go for (ie efficiency, good value etc)
(b) how much approx should fitting the new boiler cost (prices seem to vary wildly particularly as we're in London)
(c) when fitting new boiler, should the whole system be flushed/cleaned as a matter of course (as old boilers are full of sludge I believe) and if so how much to budget for this
(d) anything else I've forgotten as I've not a bl**dy clue what I'm on about being that I am a woman and plumbing and i don't obviously don't understand each other

Many thanks to all in advance
mrspw

My Netaheat packed up just as we had the snow a few weeks ago , the only date i could find inside was 1978 so it had done well , you can still get bits for them but i think a replacement is a good call .
Heat only boilers are not as widely available off the shelf as combis so you might have to wait a few days for one . I chose the glow worm flexicom ( they also do an ultracom with built in timer ) The Glow Worm is British made and that was part of the reason for choosing it , mine is the 30 kw model and i paid £700 including flue and VAT so the 24 should be less than that . You should not need to up the gas feed as its combi boilers that require better flow due to the way they work . You will need to change some pipework because the feeds are on the top of a glow worm and side of the potterton but i think installation should be around £500 plus Vat .Your corgi fitter should insist on flushing the system .
I am very pleased with the new boiler , i also fitted a new pump , include another £100 if you want to do this .
Hope that helps , good luck .

[Ferg]

mycroft said:

Heat only boilers are not as widely available off the shelf as combis

Not in my experience.

[mycroft]

Ferg said:

mycroft said:

Heat only boilers are not as widely available off the shelf as combis

Not in my experience.

Probably just my experience then , I could have got an Italian heat only boiler from my merchant but a 30 kw British boiler just couldn't find one . also i screwed the merchant down on price and could have got one quicker if i been prepared to pay anything just to get one . combi boilers are everywhere . I am not a corgi/sovereign fitter so my experience is only as replacement for home use and occasionally for development projects .
Dale

[B17NNS]

Worcester-Bosch everytime.

www.worcester-bosch.co.uk

A Greenstar 24Ri runs at about £750

http://www.boilers2go.co.uk/product/WORCS_GREENSTA...

Time to fit should be minimal for just a boiler change in the same position (just a bit of basic plumbing, new flue, commissioning etc assuming you already have a suitable gas supply - probably 22mm). If worst case you say 2 days at £50 an hour thats £920 with the VAT. A few bits and bobs takes you to £1k.

Don't spend £2k on a new boiler install without a decent powerflush. The guy I use will not guarantee the boiler without one. Your system will have built up loads of sludge over the years and its best gone and nowhere near your new shiny boiler. British Gas will attempt to relieve you of the order of £400 for this but £250 should see it done easily.

So in conclusion, thumb in the air.

£2k to you sir.

Worth considering whilst having the work done would be TRV's if you don't already have them.

[mrspw]

Hi all,

Thank you so much for all your replies. Thought I'd give you an update.

Above someone mentioned the Worcester Bosh 24 which is exactly what we have been quoted for. They came in at £2,200 including all works & powerflush, vent etc plus wireless thermostat, which seems to be bang on the money (actually think this is very reasonable for Fulham as most people seem to be coming in around the 3k or 3.5k mark).

Typically though, our boiler is working again, but for how long..??? Anyway, we were very impressed with this company from Battersea (for anyone that's interested Synergy Heatsource - ask for John or Aidan - 020 7228 9282). They were recommended by a friend, as they do all their properties and restaurants etc). They seem extremely polite, efficient and prompt (and reasonable). www.synergyheatsource.com

Will keep you posted once the work is done. Thanks again for all the info/advice.

mrspw

[andy_s]

Of course, now would be a perfect time to look at air-source heat pumps...

Edited by andy_s on Wednesday 8th April 09:04

[pontypool]

I would reccomend that you try and eke out your dodgy boiler for as long as possible to try and minimise the financial impact for as long as possible