Waterleaks and overheating.
Discussion
Couple more niggles need looking at now...
My driver's footwell is soaking wet. Dirty, minging, stinking water. I assume it's coming from the heater matrix or the connections to it. Haven't had a proper look inside, but have had a feel around in there and can't feel water anywhere. There is however a hissing sound that comes from that area that sounds like pressurised water escaping. Do the heater matrices leak? Or is is more likely to be one of the connections. Looking at the pipes, the one feeding the matrix (i assume it's feeding, it's the on on the passenger side) is larger diameter than the one on the other side. Is this normal? I looks newer than the thinner one. Was wondering if a larger pipe has just been put on and clamped round the smaler fitting...posible cause for leak. Also, is there any reason not to just cut the pipes off in the engine bay and join them as I never use the heater (never did anything really)? Are replacements available and were they borrowed from another car?
2nd issue may be linked. The water temp gets too high when driving. It always used to sit solid at ~185, but over time it has risen to almost 210. I'm not sure whether the temp gauge is correct though as it's not very consistent. I can take the car out and it'll be fine but rise slightly in trafic. I can then take it out is the same weather conditions, same coolant levels and drive the same way on the same roads and it'll be high and drop when in traffic. I can be at 205 when stationary for a couple of minutes, look up and back down again and it's dropped to about 190. I doubt it's possible for the water to cool that quickly. So I'm not sure if it's right, whether the car is fine but sometimes reads too high or is always hot and sometimes reads too low.
Could the leak cause the rize in temps? Slight loss of pressure? Obviously it could if it caused the water levels to drop low, but it doesn't leak that much and I always keep the thing topped up. Have anti-freeze in etc.
Any answers?
My driver's footwell is soaking wet. Dirty, minging, stinking water. I assume it's coming from the heater matrix or the connections to it. Haven't had a proper look inside, but have had a feel around in there and can't feel water anywhere. There is however a hissing sound that comes from that area that sounds like pressurised water escaping. Do the heater matrices leak? Or is is more likely to be one of the connections. Looking at the pipes, the one feeding the matrix (i assume it's feeding, it's the on on the passenger side) is larger diameter than the one on the other side. Is this normal? I looks newer than the thinner one. Was wondering if a larger pipe has just been put on and clamped round the smaler fitting...posible cause for leak. Also, is there any reason not to just cut the pipes off in the engine bay and join them as I never use the heater (never did anything really)? Are replacements available and were they borrowed from another car?
2nd issue may be linked. The water temp gets too high when driving. It always used to sit solid at ~185, but over time it has risen to almost 210. I'm not sure whether the temp gauge is correct though as it's not very consistent. I can take the car out and it'll be fine but rise slightly in trafic. I can then take it out is the same weather conditions, same coolant levels and drive the same way on the same roads and it'll be high and drop when in traffic. I can be at 205 when stationary for a couple of minutes, look up and back down again and it's dropped to about 190. I doubt it's possible for the water to cool that quickly. So I'm not sure if it's right, whether the car is fine but sometimes reads too high or is always hot and sometimes reads too low.
Could the leak cause the rize in temps? Slight loss of pressure? Obviously it could if it caused the water levels to drop low, but it doesn't leak that much and I always keep the thing topped up. Have anti-freeze in etc.
Any answers?
How about dabbing around with some tissue or kitchen roll for the bits you can't see? Not saying its not your heater but water also finds its way in from other holes. Did the water smell of anti freeze? Also my 83 used to collect in the air inlet under the bonnet due to poor seals. Sure thats where some of mine used to come from.
On the overheating side, blocked rads can cause it as well as a siezed cooling fan, as I found out. Among a others, sure others will point out.
Edited to add on mine the valve for the hot on/off was behind the dash, is it the same on yours meaning can you turn it off and the hissing is still there? Or maybe clamp the pipes under the bonnet?
>> Edited by jmorgan on Wednesday 10th December 14:39
On the overheating side, blocked rads can cause it as well as a siezed cooling fan, as I found out. Among a others, sure others will point out.
Edited to add on mine the valve for the hot on/off was behind the dash, is it the same on yours meaning can you turn it off and the hissing is still there? Or maybe clamp the pipes under the bonnet?
>> Edited by jmorgan on Wednesday 10th December 14:39
Are you sure the water in the footwell is coolant.
It will have a sweetish smell.
If it is, then you need to attend to it.
A cooling system needs to be under pressure to work correctly, so everything must be good.
One of the causes of heater matrixs/matrixi (whatever the word is)failure is electolosis. That's electrical current choosing to flow back through the coolant due to inadequete grounding. This can be checked by using a quality voltmeter on the 2 Volt range from battery ground to the water in the neck of the rad.
A reading below .2 v is considered ok.
Check with someone starting the car too, (starter current)
NB electrolosis gets the aluminium first.
Jeff
Edited to apol to Jeff Morgan did not see you had already mentioned unmistable smell of green stuff.
>> Edited by jeff m on Wednesday 10th December 15:44
It will have a sweetish smell.
If it is, then you need to attend to it.
A cooling system needs to be under pressure to work correctly, so everything must be good.
One of the causes of heater matrixs/matrixi (whatever the word is)failure is electolosis. That's electrical current choosing to flow back through the coolant due to inadequete grounding. This can be checked by using a quality voltmeter on the 2 Volt range from battery ground to the water in the neck of the rad.
A reading below .2 v is considered ok.
Check with someone starting the car too, (starter current)
NB electrolosis gets the aluminium first.
Jeff
Edited to apol to Jeff Morgan did not see you had already mentioned unmistable smell of green stuff.
>> Edited by jeff m on Wednesday 10th December 15:44
Thanks for the replies.
It was up and down between 185 and 210 on the way home from work too. But I'm sure it's changing more quickly that it could actually heat up or cool down.
When I parked up I had a good feel around to see if I could feel the leak. It's not coming from the heater matrix that was dry. I think the problem may be at the very front right hand corner of the footwell, but it's too dark to have a real look. The floor does tend to lean that way though so any water would gather there. As for smell, I couln;t detect anti freeze, but then I can't if I smell the open radiator...rubbish sense of smell. The water does smell bad though. Someone suggested a hole in the floorpan and the water splashing up from the road. This could be it I guess.
I still think there is something wrong with the matrix since the hissing is still there, but listening to it on the way home, it's more of a whistling sound. Like a mini kettle, but quiet and in fits and starts. Plus every now and then steam will rise from the kwindscreen vents. This can condense on the windscreen and I'm pretty sure that this is coolant because when you try to wipe the screen, it goes smeary and streaky, not like pure water.
It was up and down between 185 and 210 on the way home from work too. But I'm sure it's changing more quickly that it could actually heat up or cool down.
When I parked up I had a good feel around to see if I could feel the leak. It's not coming from the heater matrix that was dry. I think the problem may be at the very front right hand corner of the footwell, but it's too dark to have a real look. The floor does tend to lean that way though so any water would gather there. As for smell, I couln;t detect anti freeze, but then I can't if I smell the open radiator...rubbish sense of smell. The water does smell bad though. Someone suggested a hole in the floorpan and the water splashing up from the road. This could be it I guess.
I still think there is something wrong with the matrix since the hissing is still there, but listening to it on the way home, it's more of a whistling sound. Like a mini kettle, but quiet and in fits and starts. Plus every now and then steam will rise from the kwindscreen vents. This can condense on the windscreen and I'm pretty sure that this is coolant because when you try to wipe the screen, it goes smeary and streaky, not like pure water.
Just a quick thought about the hissing part of the problem. Are you sure this isn't the air passing through the face vents. If they are only cracked open you will get a hissing / whistling sound. Open them fully to check. I've been worried about a leak, in the past, and been caught out by this.
As far as the temperature cycling is concerned, are you sure there are no air locks? I had the same problem, and it was down to the air lock sometimes allowing air in contact with the sensor and sometimes coolant. These engines are difficult to bleed.
As far as the temperature cycling is concerned, are you sure there are no air locks? I had the same problem, and it was down to the air lock sometimes allowing air in contact with the sensor and sometimes coolant. These engines are difficult to bleed.
I had a similar tepm cycling problem with an old SD1 V8 years ago. The temp gauge would continually cycle between about 80C and 100C+ quite rapidly. It turned out to be a faulty rad cap preventing the system from pressurising. Changed the cap and all was well.
As someone else has mentioned if you have air in the system the temperature around the sensor can change quite rapidly depending whether the sensor is in hot water or air. If you have a slight leak in the system, i.e. heater matrix, air may be drawn in through the matix leak rather than the vacuum valve in the rad cap, as the engine cools. This air is then trapped in the system rather than in the top of the expansion tank as it would be normally.
Just a thought
As someone else has mentioned if you have air in the system the temperature around the sensor can change quite rapidly depending whether the sensor is in hot water or air. If you have a slight leak in the system, i.e. heater matrix, air may be drawn in through the matix leak rather than the vacuum valve in the rad cap, as the engine cools. This air is then trapped in the system rather than in the top of the expansion tank as it would be normally.
Just a thought
Well...
Being as it's winter the daily commute requires lights, wipers, etc and the car only gets to run without these at weekends. I'm using a mini-metro battery at the moment and it's not really up to the job. The battery is charging ok I think, but starting the car uses a lot of it's power and since I'm driving with all the electrics it doesn't charge as quickly. Usually just let the car run for a bit when I get to my destination to give it enough juice to start next time. Well, it got very low the other night so I brought the battery in and gave it a proper charge overnight. Come Friday morning, I put the battery back in and off to work. All the way there and back the temp gauge behaved the way it always used to...warms up to around 185 or so and stays there, maybe slowly rising slightly if sitting in traffic for a while, then slowly dropping as moving. Same again today. Also noticed that the fuel gauge seems to not moving up and down as much as it usually does either. Could it be that the odd readings were caused by a low charged battery? I take it there is some kind of regulator there, but I have no idea how it works.
Still getting the hissing sound and steam from vents though so I assume there is still a problem with the matrix. Was thinking about Radweld, but I figure that something designed to flow through the system blocking up gaps can't be good for the car, especially since I have a potential overheating issue!
Have pulled the carpets today and am drying out the inside. Will try to identify the source of the water on the floor later.
Being as it's winter the daily commute requires lights, wipers, etc and the car only gets to run without these at weekends. I'm using a mini-metro battery at the moment and it's not really up to the job. The battery is charging ok I think, but starting the car uses a lot of it's power and since I'm driving with all the electrics it doesn't charge as quickly. Usually just let the car run for a bit when I get to my destination to give it enough juice to start next time. Well, it got very low the other night so I brought the battery in and gave it a proper charge overnight. Come Friday morning, I put the battery back in and off to work. All the way there and back the temp gauge behaved the way it always used to...warms up to around 185 or so and stays there, maybe slowly rising slightly if sitting in traffic for a while, then slowly dropping as moving. Same again today. Also noticed that the fuel gauge seems to not moving up and down as much as it usually does either. Could it be that the odd readings were caused by a low charged battery? I take it there is some kind of regulator there, but I have no idea how it works.
Still getting the hissing sound and steam from vents though so I assume there is still a problem with the matrix. Was thinking about Radweld, but I figure that something designed to flow through the system blocking up gaps can't be good for the car, especially since I have a potential overheating issue!
Have pulled the carpets today and am drying out the inside. Will try to identify the source of the water on the floor later.
Hissing sound
Car cold, no blower fan operating do you get the hissing sound.
Do you get the hissing sound after the car has warmed up.
Both scenarios indicate low water level and an air coolant mixture through small hole in matrix/hose/valve.
If you get it with the engine cold, ie water pressure not yet built up, then that would indicate a head gasket too, pressure in coolant system from a cylinder.
Normal test for this is to feel the top hose. If it becomes "hard" very quickly, a minute or so, then that's not from the water increasing in temp.
Let's hope it's just when hot and you don't have two probs.
Don't get mislead by the guages.
Advice: buy a couple of barb connectors and a peice of hose so you can by pass the heater if you establish there is a hole. Temp fix 'til you can change it.
Bleed coolant system, heater valve open, release air
at highest point (the T above the sensors)
Get a new battery, you don't need two probs.
Jeff
Car cold, no blower fan operating do you get the hissing sound.
Do you get the hissing sound after the car has warmed up.
Both scenarios indicate low water level and an air coolant mixture through small hole in matrix/hose/valve.
If you get it with the engine cold, ie water pressure not yet built up, then that would indicate a head gasket too, pressure in coolant system from a cylinder.
Normal test for this is to feel the top hose. If it becomes "hard" very quickly, a minute or so, then that's not from the water increasing in temp.
Let's hope it's just when hot and you don't have two probs.
Don't get mislead by the guages.
Advice: buy a couple of barb connectors and a peice of hose so you can by pass the heater if you establish there is a hole. Temp fix 'til you can change it.
Bleed coolant system, heater valve open, release air
at highest point (the T above the sensors)
Get a new battery, you don't need two probs.
Jeff
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