Monday 4th March 2002
Dig Deep
Isn't there a more logical solution to road maintenance than a bunch of blokes with spades?
Discussion
Lane rental has been tried and works.
The sort of coordination of utility works suggested formed the basis of the Green Paper announcing the Public Utilities Street Works Act back in the eighties. A lot of public money was spent drafting the Act then, somewhere along the way, the Govt chickened out. Could it be that the major Civil Engineering contractors who most stood to loose out when they screwed up were substantial contributors to the then ruling (sic) Tory party's coffers ?
The sort of coordination of utility works suggested formed the basis of the Green Paper announcing the Public Utilities Street Works Act back in the eighties. A lot of public money was spent drafting the Act then, somewhere along the way, the Govt chickened out. Could it be that the major Civil Engineering contractors who most stood to loose out when they screwed up were substantial contributors to the then ruling (sic) Tory party's coffers ?
quote:
Can't they put ducting underground to route pipes/cables through so that they don't have to dig through the dirt all the time?
The technology exists, but the trouble is that in the USA (where most of the machinery is made) they don't generally have the density of population of the UK, and hence don't have the jumble of pipes, cables, old Roman roads etc, that we have underground.
Also, some sections of gas & water pipe are so bad in terms of condition (and sometimes capacity) that they need upgrading as well as replacing.
If the figures quoted for water loss due to leaking pipes are alarming, those for leaking gas pipes are downright terrifying.
Anyway, some of us (and we aren't all navvies) make a living from digging holes!
The way things seem to be going in London, they won't have to bury them. Once the whole place has been pedestrianised they might as well shove them on the surface.
Now I'm not saying all our workers are morons, but i take my hat off to the pillock who dug a shallow hole in the pavement on bassinghall avenue in the city and then went home for the weekend. Every fifteen minutes there was an explosion like a good sized banger at the bottom of the hole that threw steam and grit about 15 foot in the air. The wind blew the safety barriers away so you could stand in the hole to get the complete technicolor effect. Nice one fella. The contractor's emergency line forwarded to the answer phone so some building manager ended up having to call plod.
Now I'm not saying all our workers are morons, but i take my hat off to the pillock who dug a shallow hole in the pavement on bassinghall avenue in the city and then went home for the weekend. Every fifteen minutes there was an explosion like a good sized banger at the bottom of the hole that threw steam and grit about 15 foot in the air. The wind blew the safety barriers away so you could stand in the hole to get the complete technicolor effect. Nice one fella. The contractor's emergency line forwarded to the answer phone so some building manager ended up having to call plod.
It's all job creation in the end! Send one crew(at least 8 people whatever the size of the job)to dig the holew, send another to do the work, send a third to refill the hole badly, send a fourth to dig the hole again and finally send a fifth to do the job the first crew should have done!
quote:
Can't they put ducting underground to route pipes/cables through so that they don't have to dig through the dirt all the time?
Surely if they put a huge (read storm drain size a person could walk down) tunnel under the street for all piping, all repairs could be conducted without messing about with the road surface. Yes it wouls be expensive to install, but think of the savings over 10 years of digging up the roads!!
" ...will face a daily lane rental charge of up to £650 "
Bloody fantastic idea. I've always thought this was obvious, so I'm glad to hear it's been tried before.
How else is there any incentive to get the work done quickly?
I actually think that's too cheap. Has anyone stuck in a major traffic jam tried estimated the loss-of-earnings of everyone there? Bloody millions in many cases. £1950 for a 3-laner seems cheap. Perhaps there should be congestion charging?!?
Bloody fantastic idea. I've always thought this was obvious, so I'm glad to hear it's been tried before.
How else is there any incentive to get the work done quickly?
I actually think that's too cheap. Has anyone stuck in a major traffic jam tried estimated the loss-of-earnings of everyone there? Bloody millions in many cases. £1950 for a 3-laner seems cheap. Perhaps there should be congestion charging?!?
Sorry to state the obvious and I don't want to upset fellow Pistonheads but the utilities do mostly run through ducts,some of them are very large (big enough to drive a car through), the problem is that when you need to install a branch or connect to a building you still need to dig down to the duct.
Slightly off thread..
Did you know that there is an act of Parliament that gives digital cable operators the absolute right to lay their cables in the street or along the pavement without the consent of the Local Authority, they are pretty good at cutting tree roots and killing trees (which may or may not be a good thing depending on your attitude towards trees) and pretty poor at reinstating a level pavement / roadway.
Slightly off thread..
Did you know that there is an act of Parliament that gives digital cable operators the absolute right to lay their cables in the street or along the pavement without the consent of the Local Authority, they are pretty good at cutting tree roots and killing trees (which may or may not be a good thing depending on your attitude towards trees) and pretty poor at reinstating a level pavement / roadway.
quote:
Slightly off thread..
Did you know that there is an act of Parliament that gives digital cable operators the absolute right to lay their cables in the street or along the pavement without the consent of the Local Authority, they are pretty good at cutting tree roots and killing trees (which may or may not be a good thing depending on your attitude towards trees) and pretty poor at reinstating a level pavement / roadway.
That also means they can cut through your garden if there is no pavement outside your house. Up to 1.5 meters in I believe, drive as well.
But they can't go over or through a structure, ie bridge or culvert, without the consent of the local authority.
Apparently there are about 100 licensed Statutory Undertakers now, with most of them being cable type companies.
I believe Notts County Council has taken at least one company to court over the quality of some of the highway reinstatements - if it was to force them to male good, or to claim the cash for the council to make good on there behalf I can't remember.
If anybody has any boring queries about New Roads and Street Works Act just ask...
(If you must)
Cheers, Phil
>> Edited by filmidget on Thursday 7th March 07:09
>> Edited by filmidget on Thursday 7th March 07:12
Apparently there are about 100 licensed Statutory Undertakers now, with most of them being cable type companies.
I believe Notts County Council has taken at least one company to court over the quality of some of the highway reinstatements - if it was to force them to male good, or to claim the cash for the council to make good on there behalf I can't remember.
If anybody has any boring queries about New Roads and Street Works Act just ask...
(If you must)
Cheers, Phil
>> Edited by filmidget on Thursday 7th March 07:09
>> Edited by filmidget on Thursday 7th March 07:12
Years ago I worked for a while at the Shell research labs in Amsterdam. It's a big site with a grid of roads across it. They needed to put down, pull up or re-route cables and pipes on a daily basis so alongside each roadway was a strip of the pavement which was actually a trench covered by removable concrete slabs which contained all the services.
They just had a little mobile crane which could trundle down the road lifting off the covers in front of the crew laying cables or whatever and then go back and replace them when they'd finished.
No mess, no disruption, really quick and a lot cheaper in the long run than digging holes and filling them in all the time.
Far too sensible
They just had a little mobile crane which could trundle down the road lifting off the covers in front of the crew laying cables or whatever and then go back and replace them when they'd finished.
No mess, no disruption, really quick and a lot cheaper in the long run than digging holes and filling them in all the time.
Far too sensible
quote:
quote:What??
That also means they can cut through your garden if there is no pavement outside your house. Up to 1.5 meters in I believe, drive as well.Over my dead body will those cackhanded morons run cables across my garden..
Its something to do with service access I am told. The cable company just drew a line down our street/gardens cul de sac, (no pavement) and dug it up wether you wanted cable or not. The guy further down who had just had a block drive laid was well p!ssed orf. Apparantly all our water, elec etc goes the same way and if a service provider thinks there is a fault they can dig away?
hmm.. I was under the impression that being as I own my property and the land associated therewith, in the absence of specifically granted powers (compulsory purchase order for example) my say is final.
Irrespective of that, any cable-muppet would have a fight on his hands & once I'd parked all the vehicles I can muster on the border of my land to stop any digging, I'd be straight to court for an injunction. And if they did get a go ahead, I'd then sue them for any damage caused.. and I'd cause enough shit in the media to induce cardiac failure in all of their board members.
Rights to dig up land that I own are mine alone & anyone else will be putting their balls on the block if they fight me over it..
And breathe...
Irrespective of that, any cable-muppet would have a fight on his hands & once I'd parked all the vehicles I can muster on the border of my land to stop any digging, I'd be straight to court for an injunction. And if they did get a go ahead, I'd then sue them for any damage caused.. and I'd cause enough shit in the media to induce cardiac failure in all of their board members.
Rights to dig up land that I own are mine alone & anyone else will be putting their balls on the block if they fight me over it..
And breathe...
Carzee, there's nowt you can do about it if a utility needs to cross your garden.
I think one of the reasons for this 'right of way' it to prevent one small minded individual from depriving a whole street/area of the benfits of said utility.
That said, the cable TV crews are absolute nutters. I was one site, years ago, when work came to an abrupt halt because someone thought they just dug a gas main. Whilse they were discussing whether they could really smell gas, the guy next to me sparked up a fag, and offered me one. I beat a hasty retreat to the relative safety of the car (to "make a phone call") just in case!
I think one of the reasons for this 'right of way' it to prevent one small minded individual from depriving a whole street/area of the benfits of said utility.
That said, the cable TV crews are absolute nutters. I was one site, years ago, when work came to an abrupt halt because someone thought they just dug a gas main. Whilse they were discussing whether they could really smell gas, the guy next to me sparked up a fag, and offered me one. I beat a hasty retreat to the relative safety of the car (to "make a phone call") just in case!
quote:Well I like to think I'm not small minded - just extremely selfish
.. reasons for this 'right of way' it to prevent one small minded individual from depriving a whole street
Seriously, I have no objection to the access required for what genuinely are utilities - water, gas, electric, sewers - but I don't give a crap if people don't get cable TV because I won't let some muppet dig up my garden. In all likelyhood, the reason Mr Cable subcontractor would want to dig up my garden solely because it would be *cheaper* for them than to follow the road round or use the pavement opposite..
quote:Quite. And they'll come over my land when they pay me for the privilege and compensate me for the inevitable damage and disruption they cause me and my property.
That said, the cable TV crews are absolute nutters.
On this matter, I fart in the direction of the law. What they gonna do?
Although.... if they could be persuaded to dig up the garden, take away all the shite and lay some tarmac, that'd be the end of my lawnmowing days
and there'd be room for another couple of cars too... hmmmm hello? NTL? 
>> Edited by CarZee on Thursday 7th March 11:13
quote:
And they'll come over my land when they pay me for the privilege and compensate me for the inevitable damage and disruption they cause me and my property.
I agree, cable TV is hardly essential, and the laws were initially put in place for more important services - water, gas & leccy.
However, as far as the law goes - and obviously most lawyers (after the obligatory, initial, discouraging caveat) would be happy to be paid by you to appear in court and argue otherwise - you can't do a thing to stop them, only so far as to claim for any damage after the fact.
To coin a phrase; you can wish in one hand, and 5hit in the other, and see which fills up faster!
How can cable TV be classified as a utility? Surely it is a luxury. Water/Sewage/Gas/Electricity are essential utilities, anything else is not.Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff