Seeking partner, kit car manufacturing (Aylesbury area)
Discussion
Edited to add, things have gone on a bit, and I am now only seeking a full time, Monday to Friday partner
I currently run a small business helping people to finish their kit car projects. There’s plenty of work out there, but for practical reasons it has to be done on a hourly rate basis and in order to attract work I need to keep my rate as low as possible. This strategy is working and at any one time I usually have four cars in and another three or four waiting for spaces.
Anyway, in order to improve the profits I wish to move into kit car manufacturing and I am seeking either an active partner (preferred) or failing that, a passive one. The design stage of the car I have in mind is already well under way, and I believe the resulting kit will be able to take a worthwhile piece of the market.
Ideally I would like to bring in a person who would involve himself full time in the business, Monday to Friday as a full partner. Naturally he would need to bring some capital to the business, this would be used to fund the development of a prototype kit car, as all the necessary workshop equipment has already been acquired. Subject to negotiation, the aim is for the person to have a half share in the business and the profits. Obviously this would not suit a person who is in full time employment, nor one that lived outside easy travelling distance.
An active partner would need to have some mechanical knowledge and ability, kit car specific training would be provided by me as and when necessary. I believe it would be possible to find a way of recognising each person’s input in terms of cash and hours, and of rewarding each person proportionally. There is already an effective system in operation for recording worked hours.
If such a person is not available then a passive arrangement might well be possible.
My reason for doing this is that I am not easily able to borrow the necessary money from the normal sources, the business could easily get big enough to absorb the full time attention of two people, and I don’t want to postpone the project until the business has built up the necessary surplus. I realise that having a partner can be fraught, but I believe the advantages could, in this case, outweigh the disadvantages.
If anyone is interested then please send a PM, I don’t want to go into any more detail on an open forum.
Incidentally, there are no plans at this time to retail pasties of any type.
EDITED TO ADD-
I'm now only considering an active partner, see my new post below
I currently run a small business helping people to finish their kit car projects. There’s plenty of work out there, but for practical reasons it has to be done on a hourly rate basis and in order to attract work I need to keep my rate as low as possible. This strategy is working and at any one time I usually have four cars in and another three or four waiting for spaces.
Anyway, in order to improve the profits I wish to move into kit car manufacturing and I am seeking either an active partner (preferred) or failing that, a passive one. The design stage of the car I have in mind is already well under way, and I believe the resulting kit will be able to take a worthwhile piece of the market.
Ideally I would like to bring in a person who would involve himself full time in the business, Monday to Friday as a full partner. Naturally he would need to bring some capital to the business, this would be used to fund the development of a prototype kit car, as all the necessary workshop equipment has already been acquired. Subject to negotiation, the aim is for the person to have a half share in the business and the profits. Obviously this would not suit a person who is in full time employment, nor one that lived outside easy travelling distance.
An active partner would need to have some mechanical knowledge and ability, kit car specific training would be provided by me as and when necessary. I believe it would be possible to find a way of recognising each person’s input in terms of cash and hours, and of rewarding each person proportionally. There is already an effective system in operation for recording worked hours.
If such a person is not available then a passive arrangement might well be possible.
My reason for doing this is that I am not easily able to borrow the necessary money from the normal sources, the business could easily get big enough to absorb the full time attention of two people, and I don’t want to postpone the project until the business has built up the necessary surplus. I realise that having a partner can be fraught, but I believe the advantages could, in this case, outweigh the disadvantages.
If anyone is interested then please send a PM, I don’t want to go into any more detail on an open forum.
Incidentally, there are no plans at this time to retail pasties of any type.
EDITED TO ADD-
I'm now only considering an active partner, see my new post below
Edited by singlecoil on Thursday 11th March 15:05
Edited by singlecoil on Wednesday 17th March 09:37
Thanks for the replies so far.
The business as is could probably produce enough work for two people working at or near full time. However, the market is very sensitive to labour rates and this limits the profit potential. There are a number of firms in my line (kit building/finishing) who have gone in to manufacturing, though usually they have done that by purchasing an existing project.
My plan is to develop a new design, and obviously that will take time and cost money, especially in parts. If I try to do that alongside my existing work then I am sure it can be done, but will take a very long time.
If anyone is seriously interested in becoming involved then they will need to send me an email through my profile, I will not be discussing any figures on an open forum.
The business as is could probably produce enough work for two people working at or near full time. However, the market is very sensitive to labour rates and this limits the profit potential. There are a number of firms in my line (kit building/finishing) who have gone in to manufacturing, though usually they have done that by purchasing an existing project.
My plan is to develop a new design, and obviously that will take time and cost money, especially in parts. If I try to do that alongside my existing work then I am sure it can be done, but will take a very long time.
If anyone is seriously interested in becoming involved then they will need to send me an email through my profile, I will not be discussing any figures on an open forum.
Hi SingleCoil
Firsly, I would like to make clear that I don't have the time (nor the skill set I would imagine!!) as I run a business building websites to help you out with this but would like to offer you my best in getting this off the ground - I would love to see what you produce.
Secondly, I live in South Bucks and the misses lives in Aylesbury so would love to have a look at whatever you end up making! I would love to have a look/go...and being a race driver maybe a test drive on a track
Do you have your own kit car(s)? If so what have you got?? I would love to see/hear some more info about what you are looking to do...but only out of pure curiosity if I am 100% honest.
Anyway, I have said what I wanted to say!!
Oh, one other thing - your website really needs some love and attention - gimme a PM if you need a hand.
Cheers
The Moose
Firsly, I would like to make clear that I don't have the time (nor the skill set I would imagine!!) as I run a business building websites to help you out with this but would like to offer you my best in getting this off the ground - I would love to see what you produce.
Secondly, I live in South Bucks and the misses lives in Aylesbury so would love to have a look at whatever you end up making! I would love to have a look/go...and being a race driver maybe a test drive on a track
Do you have your own kit car(s)? If so what have you got?? I would love to see/hear some more info about what you are looking to do...but only out of pure curiosity if I am 100% honest.
Anyway, I have said what I wanted to say!!
Oh, one other thing - your website really needs some love and attention - gimme a PM if you need a hand.
Cheers
The Moose
Why are you changing the business model? I assume this new car will consume your capacity for working on other cars.
£18/hour seems to me to be ridiculously cheap.
How much of the assembly tends to be low(er) skilled? Could you outsource the lower skilled jobs to an apprentice/16 year old type giving yourself more time to focus on the harder jobs?
£18/hour seems to me to be ridiculously cheap.
How much of the assembly tends to be low(er) skilled? Could you outsource the lower skilled jobs to an apprentice/16 year old type giving yourself more time to focus on the harder jobs?
jdw1234 said:
Why are you changing the business model? I assume this new car will consume your capacity for working on other cars.
£18/hour seems to me to be ridiculously cheap.
Well, the answer is in the question. Yes, it is cheap, but not ridiculously so to someone who is contemplating paying it! We're not talking about Ultimas here, someone who has, for instance, an MK Indy that might need 150 hours work is simply going to sell the project rather than pay maybe £4,500 just to get it finished.£18/hour seems to me to be ridiculously cheap.
It's all to do with economics. If I want a queue (and I do) then that's the kind of money I work for.
But that's why I want/need to be able to market my own product (the manufacturing of the chassis and bodywork will be outsourced). If and when that happens the numbers will be very much in my favour. Especially when customers want to buy the kit and have me/us build it for them (something that all kit suppliers do, and it can put quite a lot of jam on the bread and butter. Reason being that when you are assembling the same car over and over the speed can increase dramatically, and that's apart from the profit on the body/chassis kits that other customers will choose to build for themselves.
jdw1234 said:
How much of the assembly tends to be low(er) skilled? Could you outsource the lower skilled jobs to an apprentice/16 year old type giving yourself more time to focus on the harder jobs?
Of what I do at the moment, none of it. It's all too variable and some of it is quite demanding. When assembling my own car, as above, different story!I'm keen to know more, but at present I could only be a passive partner except on infrequent occasions. This could change in the not-so-distant future, but can't guarantee at present.
I suspect there are a few potential investors here that would be willing to look into this seriously - myself included.
How much are you looking for and what do you current and projected numbers look like? An indication of the numbers involved would help.
Looking at your other thread ("not a job") suggests the numbers aren't huge. Would they stack up if the model was to take on an employee (with appropriate skills)? The problem with small owner-managed businesses is they are often only solvent because the owner works for peanuts.
I suspect there are a few potential investors here that would be willing to look into this seriously - myself included.
How much are you looking for and what do you current and projected numbers look like? An indication of the numbers involved would help.
Looking at your other thread ("not a job") suggests the numbers aren't huge. Would they stack up if the model was to take on an employee (with appropriate skills)? The problem with small owner-managed businesses is they are often only solvent because the owner works for peanuts.
UpTheIron said:
How much are you looking for and what do you current and projected numbers look like? An indication of the numbers involved would help.
I'm sure you will understand when I say that I don't wish to discuss numbers in public.What I will say is that it is my understanding that 2 units a week would not be considered unusally high in terms of sales for the established kit car manufacturers. I invite interested parties to have a look at the prices charged by these companies and to compare those prices with what they think it might cost to have the components made for them by specialist companies.
The business model for many kit manufacturers is to have the chassis, bodywork and special components made for them by firms who do that sort of thing all the time. The 'manufacturer' then markets the kits, takes the orders, takes the money, receives the parts from their suppliers and passes them on to the customers.
Frequently the majority of their marketing will be done on Saturdays and at kit car shows. That leaves time in the week for assembling cars- Quite a few kit car buyers prefer to have the cars put together by the manufacturer. Visit any kit car manufacturer and you will see cars being assembled for those customers that wish it. This is where a lot of the profit is, because this kind of work can be productionised, and most of the work that takes an amateur absolutely ages can be done quickly be somebody who has done the same thing several times before, and who has all the markings, measurements, panels etc templated and a clear mental map of what order in which to do the tasks required.
UpTheIron said:
Looking at your other thread ("not a job") suggests the numbers aren't huge. Would they stack up if the model was to take on an employee (with appropriate skills)? The problem with small owner-managed businesses is they are often only solvent because the owner works for peanuts.
As shown above, having employees can work very well for a kit manufacturer, but for the type of work I do at present, it's hopeless. Which is why I want to become a manufacturer.This is not a 'change of direction' for me. I should have made that clear earlier. I have been planning this for a long time, and the kit assembling that I do now was only a way of getting commercially involved in the market whilst getting into a postion to launch my own product.
I'm glad I have spent some time with the assembling/finishing of other people's design because, as anticipated, I have learned a lot about ways of doing things and overcoming problems, and have altered my plans to suit.
The car I have in mind to produce will benefit from the lessons I have learned, and will be all the better for it. Incidentally, it will have a unique selling proposition, and that is that it will be designed specifically for tall people (although those less blessed in the height department will also be catered for).
Edited by singlecoil on Monday 17th August 20:09
I think I would consider buying unfinished projects of ebay, then hopefully finishing them off, to then sell at a profit. Cars like this could even be marketed before they are ready to sell. ie the prospective owner could specify finishes etc. You could also offer "how too "evening classes or week end workshops etc to raise further revenue. There is still alot you can build on within youre existing business model, without taking on the mountain of designing building and selling youre own kit. If are working for £18 ph, could it not be worth taking on an apprentice at £5 an hour.
whythem said:
I think I would consider buying unfinished projects of ebay, then hopefully finishing them off, to then sell at a profit. Cars like this could even be marketed before they are ready to sell. ie the prospective owner could specify finishes etc.
Indeed, there are many other things I could do, but the plan is to become a kit car manufacturer. I check ebay every day for unfinished projects and the like, but basically the prices they command are too high for there to be the slightest chance of your plan working in a commercial sense.whythem said:
You could also offer "how too "evening classes or week end workshops etc to raise further revenue. There is still alot you can build on within youre existing business model, without taking on the mountain of designing building and selling youre own kit. If are working for £18 ph, could it not be worth taking on an apprentice at £5 an hour.
Your interest and advice is well meant, and I thank you for it, but I wonder if you are really taking in what I said earier?In any case, designing and building my own kit is not a 'mountain' but rather a task which will take time and money, more than I have to hand at the moment which is the reason for my starting this thread. As for the selling, that's the bit I am looking forward to!
I live near to Aylesbury (just outside Princes Risborough) and would be interested in talking further however before we talk please consider the following:-
I can't be hands on
I have 3 other businesses I run
I have no automotive experience
I can provide the cash
I have existing infrastructure to hook into (eg marketing, IT, commercial expertise)
I can provide strategic business direction
PM if you wish to talk any further
J
I can't be hands on
I have 3 other businesses I run
I have no automotive experience
I can provide the cash
I have existing infrastructure to hook into (eg marketing, IT, commercial expertise)
I can provide strategic business direction
PM if you wish to talk any further
J
OK, so its a partner and kit car manufacter. A partnership is worse than being married, but like marriage there are agencys to help. Check out start up business sites, theres loads out there. This links to a good one, and I think you can post looking for potential partners. (not in a gay way
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/
whythem said:
OK, so its a partner and kit car manufacter.
Yes indeed. Perhaps I should really have said so in the title.whythem said:
Check out start up business sites, theres loads out there. This links to a good one, and I think you can post looking for potential partners. (not in a gay way
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/
http://www.businesszone.co.uk/
I thought I would dig this thread up as business is picking up again, a bit (must be the proximity of warmer weather ) and I do have a viable project in mind for the eventual manufacturing side. However I am now thinking in only in terms of an active partner. I could well do with someone else there on a day to day basis to share the workload, increase the capacity and enable the spending of some time on creating the pattern and moulds for the prototype.
There are some details of the project here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Project Singlecoil & Me Have Been Working On.........T
I really can't see how this would be of any interest to somebody who didn't live within daily travelling distance of the workshop (HP22 4DR)
) and I do have a viable project in mind for the eventual manufacturing side. However I am now thinking in only in terms of an active partner. I could well do with someone else there on a day to day basis to share the workload, increase the capacity and enable the spending of some time on creating the pattern and moulds for the prototype.There are some details of the project here
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Project Singlecoil & Me Have Been Working On.........T
I really can't see how this would be of any interest to somebody who didn't live within daily travelling distance of the workshop (HP22 4DR)
I bookmarked this thread to wish you well and must have been disturbed by my boss
Good luck. You could do worse than use a similar spaceframe chassis to the one in my ugly Midtec Spyder . It's so close to the ground that it would be ideal for making the car higher for taller people. The 1" (or 25mm) box section used on the Midtec isn't man enough for anything above about 150 bhp though, so larger box section or tube would allow for more power (obviously).
Best of luck.
Good luck. You could do worse than use a similar spaceframe chassis to the one in my ugly Midtec Spyder . It's so close to the ground that it would be ideal for making the car higher for taller people. The 1" (or 25mm) box section used on the Midtec isn't man enough for anything above about 150 bhp though, so larger box section or tube would allow for more power (obviously).
Best of luck.
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