Tuning box advice!?

[benk123]

I'm looking to tune my BMW 320d E90(163BHP). I want to improve my torque and bhp!!!

I have been looking at this one...

http://www.bhpplus.co.uk/speedhawk-diesel-tuning-b...

Has anyone tried a box from the same place?
Whats the differences between this one and the cheap ones they sell on ebay? Some only cost only £100 (on Ebay) but it seems to not be for specific models, just 'one fits all'. Surely the results cant be as great!?

[Mr Whippy]

The cheap ones are usually variable resistors (literally), the more expensive are computer controlled variable resistors, that may use other variables (such as throttle position or engine speed), to alter the change in the resistance of the signal that is sent from the rail pressure sensor with those variables.

Ie, you may say at idle to not make any change, at 2000rpm make x% change, and at 4000rpm, make y% change (not 100% but the digital systems seem to do more than the simple single variable resistor types)


Basically, at a given REAL rail pressure, say 1000bar, the sensor may send a signal of 3v. What your resitor does is change that to say 2.5v.

That essentially makes the ECU think the car is running 2.5/3 * 1000 ~ 850bar...

Because of the way the ECU operates, and is calibrated against the hardware on the engine, the car will now try to attain a pressure in the rail that will give it a signal of 1000bar, which I think, is err, 3/2.5 * 3.0v ~ 3.6v

However, in reality, the sensor reads 1000bar at 3v, and mostly they are linear in response, so now at 3.6v it is generating 1000 * 3.6/3 ~ 1200bar.

Now, we can see we are fooling the ECU into making 1200bar of pressure when it thinks it is making 1000bar.
This means we manage to get more fuel in for the opening time of the injector made at any given point.

This isn't linear, we have got 20% more pressure, but might get say 15% more fuel.


So there you go. That is why it makes it go harder. However, the system is now decalibrated. So maps that protect things by having the ECU *KNOW* exactly how much fuel is going in, are now decalibrated, so when the ECU thinks, the gearbox can take 350Nm here, the ECU doesn't know it's actually making maybe 400Nm, and potentially adding extra strain on the gearbox.
Or the smoke limiting maps which know that X amount of fuel at Y rpm with Z airflow is clean, now have X+15% fuel, and it might be smokey.

A good remap *should* keep these cars systems calibrated, but many don't.


Personally I'd find a good remapper (a really good one... generally anyone offering remaps for EVERY car just sell generic remaps which in my experience are not so good)

Dave

[GCL Tuning]

Dave a fantastic summery...

Steer clear of common rail diesel tuning units !


A Bespoke software upgrade will take into account every part of the management system not just raul/fuel pressure.

ECU Remaping gives a new set of rules to the ecu where as a tuning box will make the ECU "Think" there is - + values and allowing the ecu to compensate for its loss of gain in value. Many tests have shown tuning boxs increase performance / ECOnomy However until you can compare the two there is no doubt that ECU Remapping (custom mapping).


Kind Regards

GCL Tuning

[benk123]

Cheers for your help guys...

If I want to change my car back to its original factory settings wont I have to pay to get it remapped again £££££££££??? If you get your car remapped, is is swiped back to factory settings at a service?!

I've read, an ECU remap re-writes the manufacturers file on the ECU, it is a permanant upgrade and will void any manufactures warranty. Is this true?

[Mr Whippy]

benk123 said:

Cheers for your help guys...

If I want to change my car back to its original factory settings wont I have to pay to get it remapped again £££££££££??? If you get your car remapped, is is swiped back to factory settings at a service?!

I've read, an ECU remap re-writes the manufacturers file on the ECU, it is a permanant upgrade and will void any manufactures warranty. Is this true?

All remaps are detectable if you check the checksum against what it should be for that car as standard, which say, an insurance checker thinking your car has been altered, can do.
So to be sensible, declaring it is always advisable, but I'd always get a realistic before/after dyno so when you quote your power increase you can either be realistic about it (lower the better really), or tweak the figures to present the lowest figure in an 'honest' way

Yes, a remap would invalidate the warranty if detected. How thorough a warranty provider would be though is another matter. I have seen technical data in BMW TIS/DIS or whatever, for example, that explains key ways to spot potential for tuning on the diesels, and if a few of these signs are noticed, to check further!


Yes, most will charge to return a car to standard to sell it on, how much though depends on the remapper. Shop around and ask questions I suppose.

Personally, I'd trade in and get a 3.0...

Tuning rarely makes any sense unless you already have the best one. Tuning the best one makes sense, but tuning one when a better one exists seems a bit silly from a cost benefit viewpoint!

Dave

[benk123]

Cheers Dave, you make sense and if I could afford just to get the upgrade, trust me I would! The fact is tho, I cant!! DEVO

It seems that remaps are good but its seems they have their faults too! Paying to get it remapped, paying again to get it remap back to original settings puts me rite off! Can mess up the warranty and insurance too! Plus, the box Im looking at says its works like a remap (i.e not universal and specific to my motor)but saves the data onto the unit rather than the management system which sounds good. Cant seem to find another one that does that.. Has anyone heard of something like this as I want to compare prices!?



I'm inches away from getting one, IM JUST WAITING TO HEAR BACK FROM THE OTHER EXPERTS. cough cough (YOU)


http://www.bhpplus.co.uk/speedhawk-diesel-tuning-b...

Edited by benk123 on Tuesday 3rd November 16:00

[Mr Whippy]

GCL Tuning said:

Hi we offer a FREE Retro map if the dealer overwrites the software.... 99% Of delaer udates are within the first 3 years of a vehicle life.


Kind Regards GCL Tuning

Http://www.gcltuning.co.uk

Problem here is, if the dealer is updating the software it's probably for a good reason, so do you re-write the remap data to the new software written by the dealer, or do you just put the old remap file back on (former expensive for your time, latter quick and easy re-write)?

That is either a good service if you re-build the file, or a bad one because you are just un-doing the manufacturers work on product lifetime updates.

Would be cool if it really is updated, but as a customer I'd want proof that it was your original remap with the retained manufacturer updates where appropriate

Dave

[GCL Tuning]

Mr Whippy said:

GCL Tuning said:

Hi we offer a FREE Retro map if the dealer overwrites the software.... 99% Of delaer udates are within the first 3 years of a vehicle life.


Kind Regards GCL Tuning

Http://www.gcltuning.co.uk

Problem here is, if the dealer is updating the software it's probably for a good reason, so do you re-write the remap data to the new software written by the dealer, or do you just put the old remap file back on (former expensive for your time, latter quick and easy re-write)?

That is either a good service if you re-build the file, or a bad one because you are just un-doing the manufacturers work on product lifetime updates.

Would be cool if it really is updated, but as a customer I'd want proof that it was your original
remap with the retained manufacturer updates where appropriate

Dave

Hi Dave, Software i normally writtern in blocks therefore the "tuner" would obtain the correct data from the dealer then re-flash the correct data block with the updated block of code (Ie data dump to addy 134 (DSG gearbox) update, We are aware of comapany doing exactly what you have described this is both bad for the client and for the company in question. We offer a £1m insurance backed software and a warranty giving peace of mind to the client. We are also one of the few that have the correct policy in place to allow us to work with main dealers.


Kind Regards GCL Tuning

[benk123]

Thank you for your comments LADS!

I decided to go for the Speedhawk tuning box! The expected enhancements (bhp, torque) for my car are impressive
(http://www.bhpplus.co.uk/speedhawk-diesel-tuning-box-common-rail-pr-16134.html?carid=93&box=true&Info=BMW+320d+177+BHP+E90+CR-3)and if they dont live up to those I have the 28 day money back guarantee! If im not impressed Im just gunna send it BACK! It should be here today so I will let you all know how I get on!

WISH ME LUCK!!!

[Mr Whippy]

benk123 said:

Thank you for your comments LADS!

I decided to go for the Speedhawk tuning box! The expected enhancements (bhp, torque) for my car are impressive
(http://www.bhpplus.co.uk/speedhawk-diesel-tuning-box-common-rail-pr-16134.html?carid=93&box=true&Info=BMW+320d+177+BHP+E90+CR-3)and if they dont live up to those I have the 28 day money back guarantee! If im not impressed Im just gunna send it BACK! It should be here today so I will let you all know how I get on!

WISH ME LUCK!!!

Good luck

Do you have a link to the data sheet/installation sheet for this product?

The big problem with them is always that any gain feels great, but until you have felt the gains the best remaps might have, you just don't have any real perspective...
It is a frustration that there is so much variance in quality out there when it comes to tuning, but hopefully if you are open minded to both criticisms of things you try (ie, can you be critical of a product you have spent a lot of money on), and also try lots of different stuff out, then you can get a feel for what is good or not.

I did the same, and eventually ended up learning/writing my own ecu data because it was clear in the end that even the 'reputable' tuners were pretty pants to be honest

Hence why I still can't emphasise using a specialist in this specific engine/engine family!!! A tuner cannot, imho, be a specialist in EVERY car/engine. Best to focus on one thing and do it really well, than do everything averagely imho

So use the specialists (if you do finally get a remap ), not these 'generic' do everything tuners.

Dave

[benk123]

I received my tuning box not even a week ago and ITS BETTER THAN EXPECTED.

Despite your much appreciated last comment Dave, Im going to have to disagree as I have proof (now I have purchased one)! Similarily to that of a remap, the unit works in the same way, i.e it has been specifically configured for my vehicle. In otherwords, its an external remap which is sickkkk! Mine has a remote control aswell, so I can have it back to its factory settings with a push of a button if I want, so I dont have to pay to get it remap back standard settings which is brilliant for tight fisted guys like me!!

The unit for my box is definetly not universal! The cheap ones off ebay are the ones to avoid, my Speedhawk tuning box at £325, although a little expensive, I understand why now!!

I just noticed aswell that mine comes with a data cable so that I can change the tuning programme if I decide to change car!!!

I will not need to use the 28 day guarantee!!! wooohooo I recommend to anyone with a diesel common rail lookin for performance!!

[Mr Whippy]

With all due respect, that is the exact response I expected, because that is all you know so far

Try out 5 different tuner remaps now, and you will start to notice subtle but important differences I am sure (don't really, but you get my point)

I took a tuning box off a car last weekend, and remapped it, and the owner had exactly the same response as you, but to the remap vs the tuning box, stating that the tuning box was indeed clearly not as good despite thinking it was when they go it.


Good luck with it anyway. Tuning boxes ARE getting better, and they can be effective, but don't underestimate other tuning methods, companies until you have tried them

I think all said and done, you have made the right choice in that you need something revertable with ease, and it sounds like a better than most tuning box, so don't feel bad, but I'm sure you could be blown away further still with the right remap but that just isn't viable for you...

Dave

[kaio37]

Hi @ mr whippy
I know this is an old discussion but on the off chance I thought I would try anyway. Was looking at getting my 407 2.0hdi relapsved when . Stumbled across the tuning boxes online. I am very skeptical about these and after reading quite a few forums and reviews about them vs remapping I am struggling to see how the boxes could compare to a remap. There is a local technicians garage that does remapping that I have had work done at before when I had some trouble with my DPF after being recommended by several people. When I enquired about it there was no choice of remap just the one which he stated would give me an extra 30bhp and 5mpg (can't remember torque figures) but what you said about there being different quality remaps has got me second guessing. I could get the said remap and be happy as Larry with it as like you said before, I have nothing to compare it to so have no way of knowing if it's any good. I guess that's where you come in as you sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to this. Could you recommend anywhere near me (I live in Hartlepool) that does a quality remap or is there any way you yourself could help me? Also the technology on the boxes might of changed since this convo, if so could you recommend any? It would be much appreciated if you could help me with this matter. Thanks in advance.

[packman10_4]

Motorsport Devolpments (Blackpool) very very good with diesel BMW,s

http://www.motorsport-developments.co.uk/index.htm...

[exiged]

I know this is an old one but ive just fitted a tuning box to my 2.0 tdi a4 avant 177 and thought id share my thoughts.

Ive had a few cars mapped over the years as i didnt like the idea of a plug in box and had heard bad reviews of them.I since started looking again and got in touch with TDI tuning as they were doing a box which controlled boost as well as fueling.After fitting ive measured fuel consumption from 2 full tanks rather than using the on board computer and ive gained around 5mpg with the unit on its optimum setting for performance/economy.On this setting i can definitely feel more torque in gear.With the box on its highest performance setting there is a big difference in power.

While i agree that a well written ecu remap can be better for the engine and transmission than an inline box,i think all manufacturers leave a large gap in tolerance with these cars for different temperatures and fuel types.

With tuning boxes improving i dont think ill go back to remapping unless its on a petrol or comes as part of an upgrade package.I like the fact the box is user programmable without the need for laptop/software,easy to fit myself,it can be removed in a couple of minutes should i need any warranty work done or if i decide to sell the vehicle.

I do about 35k miles a year in my work diesels so it will be interesting to see in 6 months how i feel about the box,but right now i cant see me driving one in the future without a box fitted.