The Spitfire thread!
Discussion
I suppose the Seafire was the only real option we had? in the pacific fleet it under took CAP duties due to its lack of range and the hellcats etc escorted the bombers on raids.
Valid point as well about the development of the japanese planes.
Were their many land based Spitfires in the Asia conflicts?
Valid point as well about the development of the japanese planes.
Were their many land based Spitfires in the Asia conflicts?
Both the Seafire and the Sea Hurricane were "bodge jobs" to a large extent. They came about because the Admiralty realised, very soon after the start of the war, that the fighters currently serving with the Fleet Air Arm were pretty inadequate to say the least. The front line fighters in service in 1939 were the Blackburn Skua and the Gloster Sea Gladiator. The Skua was pretty hopeless and a death trap if it came up against a "proper" oponent like a Messerschmitt 109 or 110. It could barely catch most Luftwaffe bombers - indeed, it couldn't catch a Junkers 88.
The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
alwayzsidewayz said:
I suppose the Seafire was the only real option we had? in the pacific fleet it under took CAP duties due to its lack of range and the hellcats etc escorted the bombers on raids.
Valid point as well about the development of the japanese planes.
Were their many land based Spitfires in the Asia conflicts?
Lots - flown by the Royal Australian Air Force.Valid point as well about the development of the japanese planes.
Were their many land based Spitfires in the Asia conflicts?
williamp said:
And to go compleately off topic, how good was the Hawker Sea Fury?
Never had much of a chance to prove itself, it wasn't as quick as a Seafire but made for a good ground attack aircraft, which you'd hope looking at it's lineage. Legend has it, it was the first prop engined fighter to down a jet (Mig 15 in Kores)Eric Mc said:
Was it REALLY slower than a Seafire?
The last version of the Seafire was the Griffon powered FR.47. I always thought that the Griffon in the FR.47 was around 2,100 hp whereas the Centaurus in the Sea Fury was 2,500 hp.
The ultimate developments of both aircraft in squadron service had the same top speed, and power ratings of 2200 for the Griffon and 2250 for the Centaurus (according to a totally random website).The last version of the Seafire was the Griffon powered FR.47. I always thought that the Griffon in the FR.47 was around 2,100 hp whereas the Centaurus in the Sea Fury was 2,500 hp.
Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 13th November 12:24
dr_gn said:
B Oeuf said:
williamp said:
And to go compleately off topic, how good was the Hawker Sea Fury?
Legend has it, it was the first prop engined fighter to down a jet and for Seafire read Spiteful
Fury 460 mph (740 km/h) at 18,000 ft (5,500 m)
The ultimate Griffon was the Griffon 101 with a three-speed supercharger which was rather temperamental, but also pushed the Spiteful at 494 MPH
Eric Mc said:
Both the Seafire and the Sea Hurricane were "bodge jobs" to a large extent. They came about because the Admiralty realised, very soon after the start of the war, that the fighters currently serving with the Fleet Air Arm were pretty inadequate to say the least. The front line fighters in service in 1939 were the Blackburn Skua and the Gloster Sea Gladiator. The Skua was pretty hopeless and a death trap if it came up against a "proper" oponent like a Messerschmitt 109 or 110. It could barely catch most Luftwaffe bombers - indeed, it couldn't catch a Junkers 88.
The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
How about the Fairey Swordfish? Or was that not a fighter?The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
HereBeMonsters said:
Eric Mc said:
Both the Seafire and the Sea Hurricane were "bodge jobs" to a large extent. They came about because the Admiralty realised, very soon after the start of the war, that the fighters currently serving with the Fleet Air Arm were pretty inadequate to say the least. The front line fighters in service in 1939 were the Blackburn Skua and the Gloster Sea Gladiator. The Skua was pretty hopeless and a death trap if it came up against a "proper" oponent like a Messerschmitt 109 or 110. It could barely catch most Luftwaffe bombers - indeed, it couldn't catch a Junkers 88.
The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
How about the Fairey Swordfish? Or was that not a fighter?The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
HereBeMonsters said:
Eric Mc said:
Both the Seafire and the Sea Hurricane were "bodge jobs" to a large extent. They came about because the Admiralty realised, very soon after the start of the war, that the fighters currently serving with the Fleet Air Arm were pretty inadequate to say the least. The front line fighters in service in 1939 were the Blackburn Skua and the Gloster Sea Gladiator. The Skua was pretty hopeless and a death trap if it came up against a "proper" oponent like a Messerschmitt 109 or 110. It could barely catch most Luftwaffe bombers - indeed, it couldn't catch a Junkers 88.
The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
How about the Fairey Swordfish? Or was that not a fighter?The Sea Galdiator was a biplane and obviously obsolete.
The only Navy fighter in the pipeline was the Fairey Fulmar which, to give it its due, performed quite well once in service but, again, like the Skua, had a touigh time against land based Luftwaffe and Italian fighters.
Edited by telecat on Friday 13th November 13:29
Merlin-engined photo recce version. Note unarmoured windscreen, no guns, looks like the cockpit door was deleted too.
Bonus Mosquito in the backgound, I believe.
pics and more here: http://www.aceswarriorsandwingmen.com/
Bonus Mosquito in the backgound, I believe.
pics and more here: http://www.aceswarriorsandwingmen.com/
Edited by Ayahuasca on Friday 13th November 13:42
Edited by Ayahuasca on Friday 13th November 14:41
dr_gn said:
Eric Mc said:
Was it REALLY slower than a Seafire?
The last version of the Seafire was the Griffon powered FR.47. I always thought that the Griffon in the FR.47 was around 2,100 hp whereas the Centaurus in the Sea Fury was 2,500 hp.
The ultimate developments of both aircraft in squadron service had the same top speed, and power ratings of 2200 for the Griffon and 2250 for the Centaurus (according to a totally random website).The last version of the Seafire was the Griffon powered FR.47. I always thought that the Griffon in the FR.47 was around 2,100 hp whereas the Centaurus in the Sea Fury was 2,500 hp.
Edited by Eric Mc on Friday 13th November 12:24
Either would have been pretty much the ultimate pistion engined fighters but I understand both projects were halted before prototype stage.
http://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modlo...
Getting a bit off topic here. But just suppose somebody wanted to make a British equivalent of the Turbo prop Mustang. What piston fighter could they base it on?
The Spitfire probably wouldn't be suitable because of the wing. The Spiteful could be a better bet because they did essentially put a jet engine in it to make the Attacker.
What would a Sea Fury look like with a turboprop engine I wonder?
The Spitfire probably wouldn't be suitable because of the wing. The Spiteful could be a better bet because they did essentially put a jet engine in it to make the Attacker.
What would a Sea Fury look like with a turboprop engine I wonder?
Eric Mc said:
Lots - flown by the Royal Australian Air Force.
The RAAF received 657 Spitfires in total.247 MkVc These were the 'tropicalised' variant with the large 'Vokes' filter for the air intake beneath the nose.
251 MkVIII
159 HF MkVIII
Probably the most well known were the MkVIIIs of 457 Sqn. These were painted with a shark's mouth and the logo 'Grey Nurse' forward of the cockpit.
This is the first aircraft to be painted, that of Sqn Ldr Bruce Watson, CO of 457 Sqn:
The RAF also operated land based Spitfires in the far east.
Mk Vs
MkVIIIs
MkXIVs
MkXVIIIs
Aside from the sole built TR MkVIII (the twin sticker), there are only 4 surviving flight-worthy MkVIIIs, the best known and first to be restored was discovered by Ormond Haydon-Baillie as a wreck in Jaipur en the late 1970's. After his death it was restored by the Italian millionaire Franco Actis.
I saw it at Bruggen in 1983 at the unveiling where it was wearing it's original 17(F)Sqn colour scheme - 17(F)Sqn being based at Bruggen with Jaguars at the time. I believe it now resides in the USA.
I'll see if I can find some photo's.
Mk Vs
MkVIIIs
MkXIVs
MkXVIIIs
Aside from the sole built TR MkVIII (the twin sticker), there are only 4 surviving flight-worthy MkVIIIs, the best known and first to be restored was discovered by Ormond Haydon-Baillie as a wreck in Jaipur en the late 1970's. After his death it was restored by the Italian millionaire Franco Actis.
I saw it at Bruggen in 1983 at the unveiling where it was wearing it's original 17(F)Sqn colour scheme - 17(F)Sqn being based at Bruggen with Jaguars at the time. I believe it now resides in the USA.
I'll see if I can find some photo's.
Edited by Ginetta G15 Girl on Friday 13th November 19:31
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