The **BOXING** thread
Discussion
tuscaneer said:
BillPeart said:
Or a deluded ego maniac who thinks he's worth way more than he is. If true, a fool.
Having seen footage of haye putting him over in sparring with a jab never mind the beating klitschko put on him I just can't understand why he doesn't take the payday. Stiverne will f
k him up and he knows it. TAKE THE MONEY! !!!!!!! He's gonna lose anyway when be steps up......may as well get 2 million quid for it!philv said:
Im curious - does anyone actually like or respect Mayweather?
To my mind, he picks his fights to the extreme, fignts people he knows he can beat and then fights them again.
Dodges the real fights, hoping theyll go away or the other guy will go over the hill.
Does anyone think he would have done anything against sugar ray leonard?
Or hearns?
2 huge fights out there for him, but he continues to dodge them. Pac and khan.
I'm not interested in personalities but Mayweather's skills cannot be denied. He is incredibly difficult to catch flush and his timing is so good that he can hurt anyone he fights without being really concussive. His skills are what the sweet science is supposed to be all about.To my mind, he picks his fights to the extreme, fignts people he knows he can beat and then fights them again.
Dodges the real fights, hoping theyll go away or the other guy will go over the hill.
Does anyone think he would have done anything against sugar ray leonard?
Or hearns?
2 huge fights out there for him, but he continues to dodge them. Pac and khan.
Really, comparing boxers, or any sportspeople, from different eras, is pretty pointless and only fit for a bar debate.
Not fighting PacMan is the only really blot on Floyd's record and now, if he does fight him, I think Manny is too far on the downslope to trouble him. So even if he beats him, not having the fight earlier will always he held against him. I don't think Khan is in anywhere near the same class and I'm convinced Floyd would play with him. I thought Canelo would give him problems but he was systematically dismantled. Cotto is a slightly tragic figure in the drama. The defeat to 'hands of cement' damaged him more than just physically and without that defeat I think he'd have been an even better fighter.
On the bar debate, I'll go with Marciano as the greatest. Late starter, undefeated and a regular fighter of really hungry guys, he was the original Rocky. Sadly, he's largely unknown to many today. Ali a close second - just so impressive for a big man and who knows how much damage his ban did. It certainly didn't help him. Without it, I think he could have retired undefeated.
9mm said:
On the bar debate, I'll go with Marciano as the greatest. Late starter, undefeated and a regular fighter of really hungry guys, he was the original Rocky. Sadly, he's largely unknown to many today. Ali a close second - just so impressive for a big man and who knows how much damage his ban did. It certainly didn't help him. Without it, I think he could have retired undefeated.
I prepared two dissertations on boxing, one on the Benn v McClellan fight and the other on Ali.My 'opinions' on Ali were that his issues with the government/war cost him his peak years, if not physically, certainly mentally and the ability to continue learning. Subsequently, his incredibly naive and poor management meant he squandered money and was tied into fights he should never have been taking in his late thirties, where he was clearly showing signs of not being the same man he was.
He could quite possibly have been better than he was, but we'll never know, so the cross era question makes his ranking even more difficult. He's already considered one of the best ever. He's certainly worth of contention for that title, even amongst the likes of Marciano, SRR, SRL, Chavez or whoever. In terms of entertainment, no question, during his peak, numero uno (for me) And it was watching endless VHS of him that got me into boxing as a nipper.
Marciano is very high on my list of heavies too. For a guy of 5ft 10 ins with a reach of only 68 inches he was an absolute animal with thunder in both hands. Very underrated skillset too. Most people just factor him as a wild crude puncher but all time greats like moore, Walcott and charles were technically three of the most skilled heavyweights of all time and we know what happened there!
For me joe Louis is the best heavyweight of all time but marciano has got to be up there vying for second place with ali and/ or sam langford
For me joe Louis is the best heavyweight of all time but marciano has got to be up there vying for second place with ali and/ or sam langford
Sam Langford is arguably the most under-rated Heavyweight of all time...or even boxer of all time, given it's widely recognised he could have won world titles from Lightweight through to Heavyweight if given the opportunities over his career. It's a travesty that he doesn't get the recognition his talent deserved. When genuine Heavyweight legends like Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey clearly wanted no part of Langford when they were champions, it tells you everything you need to know about his capabilities.
In respect of Ali, the one thing that always stands out for me in his record, is just how many other all-time great fighters he beat during his career. If you were to compile a list of the top 50 Heavyweights of all time, chances are most, if not all, of the following would be in there somewhere; Archie Moore, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, George Foreman. Ali beat them all...and of those, he beat Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Norton twice apiece. Granted, not all of those wins were against those greats at their peak, but that's true of just about any top-tier fighter you'd care to mention. When you then consider the three prime years in which he was inactive, that record is staggering. To put it into context, Lennox Lewis holds victories over three other top-50 contenders (Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali Klitschko) and I'd rate Lennox's CV as bloody fantastic...!
ETA - actually, Archie Moore was better known for his exploits as a Light Heavyweight, but as he is possibly the greatest Light Heavyweight in history, I'd argue the point still holds.
In respect of Ali, the one thing that always stands out for me in his record, is just how many other all-time great fighters he beat during his career. If you were to compile a list of the top 50 Heavyweights of all time, chances are most, if not all, of the following would be in there somewhere; Archie Moore, Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, Ken Norton, George Foreman. Ali beat them all...and of those, he beat Liston, Patterson, Frazier and Norton twice apiece. Granted, not all of those wins were against those greats at their peak, but that's true of just about any top-tier fighter you'd care to mention. When you then consider the three prime years in which he was inactive, that record is staggering. To put it into context, Lennox Lewis holds victories over three other top-50 contenders (Holyfield, Tyson, Vitali Klitschko) and I'd rate Lennox's CV as bloody fantastic...!
ETA - actually, Archie Moore was better known for his exploits as a Light Heavyweight, but as he is possibly the greatest Light Heavyweight in history, I'd argue the point still holds.
Edited by Yiliterate on Saturday 18th October 23:38
STW2010 said:
dirty boy said:
I prepared two dissertations on boxing, one on the Benn v McClellan fight and the other on Ali.
What were you doing which led to these dissertations?albundy89 said:
Im only a poor old fan who used to watch Ken Buchannan,Duran at his best, Carlos palomino,good fighters
Heavyweights try larry holmes vastly underrated
A few early memories of Palomino and Buchanan (ditto the UK's Charlie Magri, then colin Jones loved watching them) and hero worshipped Duran as a kid. Now as excited about Golovkin, my favorite fighter over the past 3 years or so. A throwback in style, though as a modern touch welcome to the world of 12 1/2 stone middleweighs!Heavyweights try larry holmes vastly underrated
If anyone remembers Larry Holmes from the late-in-the-day fight against Tyson, they have missed a treat - he was utterly brilliant at his best.
given all our obvious love for the old timers and golovkin's great win on Saturday night I thought i'd stick this video here. great watch all about the lost art of shifting that these current eastern block fighters seem to be bringing back.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijD09_O8ek
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijD09_O8ek
tuscaneer said:
given all our obvious love for the old timers and golovkin's great win on Saturday night I thought i'd stick this video here. great watch all about the lost art of shifting that these current eastern block fighters seem to be bringing back.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijD09_O8ek
What an amazing video. I really learned something there.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vijD09_O8ek
I do admire just how important footwork is in boxing and the positioning of your feet for maximum power- shifting is a great way of maximising the power of both left and right hooks.
Good footwork is needed for defence, and I think Groves is a good example of this in how he slips away from the ropes and corners. Pretty much how he beat DeGale. Obviously there are plenty of better examples out there though.
STW2010 said:
What an amazing video. I really learned something there.
I do admire just how important footwork is in boxing and the positioning of your feet for maximum power- shifting is a great way of maximising the power of both left and right hooks.
Good footwork is needed for defence, and I think Groves is a good example of this in how he slips away from the ropes and corners. Pretty much how he beat DeGale. Obviously there are plenty of better examples out there though.
I quoted groves in the gym on Saturday.......I was telling one of the guys who I was sparring that I knew groves was gonna win versus degale within watching the first two rounds......the guy obviously asked me how I knew so quicky!...foot placement. as a southpaw I always try to get my lead foot outside an orthodox opponents lead foot . if I can do this I control where he's going and I have better placement to get off. when groves came out and degale obliged the orthodox groves won the battle of the lead foot against the southpaw degale. that was pretty much a done deal as he kept winning the battle of the placement and thus landed more shots from a better positioningI do admire just how important footwork is in boxing and the positioning of your feet for maximum power- shifting is a great way of maximising the power of both left and right hooks.
Good footwork is needed for defence, and I think Groves is a good example of this in how he slips away from the ropes and corners. Pretty much how he beat DeGale. Obviously there are plenty of better examples out there though.
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