Slip road on to a motorway
Discussion
Mr Will said:
waremark said:
One minor point to note is that lane 1 is likely to be moving at 56 mph (heavies are limited to 90 kph) not 70 mph - so that is the speed to try to attain before the merge zone.
I'd disagree slightly with this advice in certain situations, in a low powered car I will normally try to hit 70 as early as possible. As my ability to reduce speed it much greater than my ability to gain it, I feel this maximises my options by giving me a "speed reserve" to allow me to pull in front of other vehicles if necessary, as well as the ability to brake and pull in behind.Paddy_N_Murphy said:
CommanderJameson said:
dom180 said:
Sure. I've seen this a few times where it's happened to other people and it seems to me that it's the faster traffic in lane 2 who is at fault where they have plenty of time/space to move to lane 3 but seem to prefer to stick to lane 2 and not let others pull out.
I don't agree with the notion that the faster cars in L2 are at fault because someone else has executed a manoeuvre that causes them to brake or change course.Don't take this that I am not courteous and I intentioanlly do allow all and sundry to pull out, join, turn right in traffic etc hoping it rubs off. Sometimes it appears it does.
What f
ks me off is the 'Presumption' (if I am being generous) or the blind stupid ignorance of others that barge in.General rule of thumb I apply is that my driving should never cause my brake lights or someone else's to light.
If only everyone else was the same.
It is frustrating when looking ahead I can see someone joining the motorway, or a lorry about to exit a layby, and I move over to allow them to exit, but someone in font of me doesn't bother to do the same.
The worst though is when you are merging onto a dual carriageway and a driver who clearly has little confidence (or competence perhaps) in front of you decides to come to a complete halt at the end of the merge lane. You then have to try and join from a standing start, assuming you have not had an opportunity to go round them into a space on the main road.
For what its worth 
I often see a car parked at the end of a slip road! The usual reason is they've pootled down the slip road only to find theyre not going the same speed as the trucks. There are no gaps so they stop and wait.
In the olden days the preaching was that you should wait at the beginning of a slip road, look for a suitable gap, then go for it!
I often see a car parked at the end of a slip road! The usual reason is they've pootled down the slip road only to find theyre not going the same speed as the trucks. There are no gaps so they stop and wait.
In the olden days the preaching was that you should wait at the beginning of a slip road, look for a suitable gap, then go for it!
tbh when I'm driving and joining the motorway it's either bang on rush hour, or not much traffic, if there's not much traffic then it's easy to join, if there's slow rush hour traffic then I trundle along at 7-10mph, indicating, next to the traffic going 5mph until I find a sufficient gap, if it's getting close to the end of the slip road I'll slow down and turn off indicators, and indicate again at the next biggest gap and slot into it and then back off to make sure I've got correct stopping distance again.
Edited by maurauth on Tuesday 9th February 04:00
CommanderJameson said:
dom180 said:
CommanderJameson said:
dom180 said:
bluetone said:
Marc W said:
As for already being on the motorway I was always taught to move over if in the left hand lane when people are joining if it's safe to do so.
When approching an on-slip on the motorway it is best practice surely to plan on the assumption that there will likely be someone wanting to join ie. make sure you have space to move into lane 2/3 if necessary.In reality, I'd accelerate and increase speed so it wouldn't be an issue but if I were taking my test...?
t. And you wouldn't be taking your test on a motorway. However, if I were to encounter this circumstance on a DC during my test, I think I'd probably just ease off a bit if there was someone joining, and let the joining traffic sort itself out whilst I concentrated on not crashing.
For example at J4a on M5(N) too often I see someone who has merged into L1 from the RH lane of the on slip, then find themselves sandwiched between somebody in the LH lane of the onslip still looking to merge and somebody in L2 to their right who hasn't anywhere to go to their right into L3 for the usual reasons,
What do they do? Usually it's just put their indicator on and barge right into L2 which means that traffic in L2 that can't go right into L3 has to peg back to make space for them.
Why not just accept their piss poor planning and ease off to let the guy merge into L1.
I just do whatever to keep space around me, no flashing, no waving, what does it lose in the end, 3-4 seconds?
Re original question, I can only think of one occasion where it was tricky and that was because I'd planned my approach and speed, aiming for a space, and the nose of the prat in L1 lifted as he deliberately accelerated to shut the gap, but the escape route plan worked so no harm done. Plan B, carry on.
Going to the original question... Never stop on the hard shoulder unless its an emergency....
1st what about the poor guy behind. You slam on on the hard shoulder and you may have a 38 tonne truck up your cooking stove. There is no whiplash payout from one of them, just a pretty coffin and lots of flowers....
2nd if you couldn't do it with a run up how do you plan on doing it from a standing start.
I regular watch people who after strong direct coaching on how to rejoin a motorway from the hard shoulder pull into a live lane at 20 odd mph only to create total chaos and on one occasion devastation.
Do your best, be ready to slow but not stop and if needed use the hard shoulder, once its gone that wrong someone will inevitably let you in just to avoid all the debris and dust your kicking up.
1st what about the poor guy behind. You slam on on the hard shoulder and you may have a 38 tonne truck up your cooking stove. There is no whiplash payout from one of them, just a pretty coffin and lots of flowers....
2nd if you couldn't do it with a run up how do you plan on doing it from a standing start.
I regular watch people who after strong direct coaching on how to rejoin a motorway from the hard shoulder pull into a live lane at 20 odd mph only to create total chaos and on one occasion devastation.
Do your best, be ready to slow but not stop and if needed use the hard shoulder, once its gone that wrong someone will inevitably let you in just to avoid all the debris and dust your kicking up.
bluetone said:
Monnty said:
Going to the original question... Never stop on the hard shoulder unless its an emergency....
The OP never suggested STOPPING on the h/s.See the thread title?
WhoseGeneration said:
Yet again it's about how the majority don't leave that two second gap.
Including many of the LGVs in lane one.
Why?
Because somebody will just pull into it, possibly from the sliproad, and it won't be a 2-second gap any more Including many of the LGVs in lane one.
Why?
Edited by SJobson on Friday 12th February 07:38
bluetone said:
Regularly happens when merging into (slower moving) roadworks/contraflows.
Of course you stop on the sliproad and wait; hard shoulder is for emergency/breakdown use only.
I've often pondered this situation and I don't like the sound of that. I'd be stationary with vehicles closing in behind me, plus I'd then have to join motorway traffic from a standing start.Of course you stop on the sliproad and wait; hard shoulder is for emergency/breakdown use only.
If I found myself in this situation I'd opt for using the hardshoulder if it's there and clear, only stop if it isn't (err obviously!
). Having said that I've pretty-much always managed to merge in time, and can normally glimpse the main carriageway long before the merge and judge the traffic, match speed, and find a gap in good time. I think that's the best strategy to go for. Mind you I don't like the look of the northbound slip road on J34 of the M6!
Also the other drivers on the main carriageway tend to assist with the merge most of the time! In these parts, at least.
I encountered von's situation on my driving test (pulling onto A14, very heavy traffic all driving too close). Technically I should have stopped and waited but that could have taken hours so I went for a gap that was smaller than ideal. Received a couple of minors for it though the examiner did state that he would have done the same.
Jesus TF Christ said:
I encountered von's situation on my driving test (pulling onto A14, very heavy traffic all driving too close). Technically I should have stopped and waited but that could have taken hours so I went for a gap that was smaller than ideal. Received a couple of minors for it though the examiner did state that he would have done the same.
If the traffic was moving on the A14 that must have been quite a few years ago! Dear all,
I carried-out some research into the question of what one ought to do in the event of reaching the end of a slip road and finding it impossible to merge onto a motorway.
The law in England and Wales concerning legal usage of motorways since Wednesday the 15th day of September 1982 is contained in the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 (hereinafter 'the 1982 Regulations').
Regulation 7 of the 1982 Regulations specifies that: '... no vehicle shall stop or remain at rest on a carriageway', and
according to Regulation 3(1)(b) of the 1982 Regulations:
a '"carriageway" means that part of a motorway which—
(i) is constructed with a surface suitable for the regular passage of vehicular motor traffic along the motorway,
(ii) has on each side either a hard shoulder, a raised kerb, or a central reservation, and
(iii) has the approximate position of its edges marked with a traffic sign of the type shown in diagram 1012.1 in Schedule 2 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1981.'
An evaluation would need to be made of each slip road one wishes to consider to identify if it is part of the motorway's 'carriageway'. I myself have checked-out a local slip road, and it appears that these 3 criteria are satisfied in relation to it, and I would venture that it would be surprising to find a slip road designated as part of a motorway—as set-out below—which would not qualify as the motorway's 'carriageway'.
Still, if the carriageway test were not satisfied, then the Regulation 7 prohibition could not be said to apply to that part of the motorway.
A "motorway", according to Regulation 3(1)(f) 'means any road or part of a road to which [the] Regulations apply by virtue of Regulation 4'
which states that '[the Regulations] apply to every special road or part of a special road which can only be used by traffic of Classes I or II'.
"Special Roads", are designated by means of legislative schemes made under section 1 of the Special Roads Act 1949, which means that each motorway has its own scheme setting-out its route as a special road and restricting its usage to traffic of Classes I or II.
If any of the requirements in the preceding 2 paragraphs are not satisfied then the road is not a motorway, and so it is then not even necessary to consider whether the slip road forms a 'carriageway' for the purposes of the 1982 Regulations, and the Regulation 7 prohibition could not be said to apply a stopping prohibition to the road.
Helpfully, it is not necessary to consult such schemes to identify when a road is a motorway on account of signs erected consistent with Part V, 'Directional and Other Informatory Signs on Motorways', of Part V of Schedule 1 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1981:
So one can rely on sign 901.1:
to identify the point from which the Regulations begin to apply—i.e. one can identify the beginning of the motorway, and
similarly one can rely on signs 918.1, 919.1 and 920:
to identify when the 1982 Regulations cease to apply—i.e. one can identify the end of the motorway.
Direction 9 of the Traffic Signs General Directions contained in Part II of the 1981 Regulations specifies that the above diagrams may be placed only on or near a motorway.
All that being said, even where a slip road is deemed to be a 'carriageway' of a 'motorway', by dint of Regulation 7(4) of the 1982 Regulations:
'Nothing ... shall preclude a vehicle from stopping or remaining at rest on a carriageway while it is prevented from proceeding along the carriageway by the presence of any other vehicle or any person or object.'
Ergo it would seem that someone entering a motorway, having reached the end of its slip road, and finding it impossible to continue into a lane on account of his having to give-way to other already established vehicles, is entitled to stop at the end of the slip road. The very presence of this provision would seem to mean that someone continuing from a slip road onto a motorway's hard shoulder, even where that someone has ran-out of slip road, would be doing so illegally, contrary to Regulation 5 of the 1982 Regulations.
This post does not constitute legal advice. It is a matter for you to ascertain the correctness and applicability of all relevant laws for yourself and for your own purposes. I recommend seeking legal counsel from an appropriate legal professional where necessary. I will not be held liable howsoever for anyone who acts on the above post.
I carried-out some research into the question of what one ought to do in the event of reaching the end of a slip road and finding it impossible to merge onto a motorway.
The law in England and Wales concerning legal usage of motorways since Wednesday the 15th day of September 1982 is contained in the Motorways Traffic (England and Wales) Regulations 1982 (hereinafter 'the 1982 Regulations').
Regulation 7 of the 1982 Regulations specifies that: '... no vehicle shall stop or remain at rest on a carriageway', and
according to Regulation 3(1)(b) of the 1982 Regulations:
a '"carriageway" means that part of a motorway which—
(i) is constructed with a surface suitable for the regular passage of vehicular motor traffic along the motorway,
(ii) has on each side either a hard shoulder, a raised kerb, or a central reservation, and
(iii) has the approximate position of its edges marked with a traffic sign of the type shown in diagram 1012.1 in Schedule 2 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1981.'
An evaluation would need to be made of each slip road one wishes to consider to identify if it is part of the motorway's 'carriageway'. I myself have checked-out a local slip road, and it appears that these 3 criteria are satisfied in relation to it, and I would venture that it would be surprising to find a slip road designated as part of a motorway—as set-out below—which would not qualify as the motorway's 'carriageway'.
Still, if the carriageway test were not satisfied, then the Regulation 7 prohibition could not be said to apply to that part of the motorway.
A "motorway", according to Regulation 3(1)(f) 'means any road or part of a road to which [the] Regulations apply by virtue of Regulation 4'
which states that '[the Regulations] apply to every special road or part of a special road which can only be used by traffic of Classes I or II'.
"Special Roads", are designated by means of legislative schemes made under section 1 of the Special Roads Act 1949, which means that each motorway has its own scheme setting-out its route as a special road and restricting its usage to traffic of Classes I or II.
If any of the requirements in the preceding 2 paragraphs are not satisfied then the road is not a motorway, and so it is then not even necessary to consider whether the slip road forms a 'carriageway' for the purposes of the 1982 Regulations, and the Regulation 7 prohibition could not be said to apply a stopping prohibition to the road.
Helpfully, it is not necessary to consult such schemes to identify when a road is a motorway on account of signs erected consistent with Part V, 'Directional and Other Informatory Signs on Motorways', of Part V of Schedule 1 to the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 1981:
So one can rely on sign 901.1:
to identify the point from which the Regulations begin to apply—i.e. one can identify the beginning of the motorway, and
similarly one can rely on signs 918.1, 919.1 and 920:
to identify when the 1982 Regulations cease to apply—i.e. one can identify the end of the motorway.
Direction 9 of the Traffic Signs General Directions contained in Part II of the 1981 Regulations specifies that the above diagrams may be placed only on or near a motorway.
All that being said, even where a slip road is deemed to be a 'carriageway' of a 'motorway', by dint of Regulation 7(4) of the 1982 Regulations:
'Nothing ... shall preclude a vehicle from stopping or remaining at rest on a carriageway while it is prevented from proceeding along the carriageway by the presence of any other vehicle or any person or object.'
Ergo it would seem that someone entering a motorway, having reached the end of its slip road, and finding it impossible to continue into a lane on account of his having to give-way to other already established vehicles, is entitled to stop at the end of the slip road. The very presence of this provision would seem to mean that someone continuing from a slip road onto a motorway's hard shoulder, even where that someone has ran-out of slip road, would be doing so illegally, contrary to Regulation 5 of the 1982 Regulations.
This post does not constitute legal advice. It is a matter for you to ascertain the correctness and applicability of all relevant laws for yourself and for your own purposes. I recommend seeking legal counsel from an appropriate legal professional where necessary. I will not be held liable howsoever for anyone who acts on the above post.
Edited by SM14 on Friday 28th November 02:23
Edited by SM14 on Friday 28th November 02:25
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