What the hell is wrong with UK justice??

[Silver993tt]

Typical institutional double standards:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-10746308

This guy should be in jail for a miniumum of 10 years and his career ended immediately. How arrogant of UK law to protect someone due to their position in a government run department.

So two lives are worth less than one pathetic "career".

I really hope this guy gets shot down and extinguished in his first armed combat (which of course he will try and avoid at the tax payers expense since he seems to be a complete coward).

Edited by Silver993tt on Saturday 24th July 05:10

[t11ner]

The guy made a momentary mistake, the consequences were tragic and massive but he did nothing deliberate or malicious and it could happen to anyone.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the idea that something like that can get a contributing member of society sent to jail when dole-dossing scumbags can go out mugging grannies and not get sent down.

BTW, he's unlikely to see combat when he is an aircraft technician so wishing him dead is probably pointless .

[RupertTheFridge]

t11ner said:

The guy made a momentary mistake, the consequences were tragic and massive but he did nothing deliberate or malicious and it could happen to anyone.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the idea that something like that can get a contributing member of society sent to jail when dole-dossing scumbags can go out mugging grannies and not get sent down.

BTW, he's unlikely to see combat when he is an aircraft technician so wishing him dead is probably pointless .

But what would you opinion be is they were your relatives ????

[t11ner]

Probably totally different but if we are going to base the justice system purely on the views of people who are emotionally involved then it's going to look pretty messy.

[sday12]

This.

Met Paul Tomlinson, what's happening to his family is tragic.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/libertycen...

[heebeegeetee]

t11ner said:

The guy made a momentary mistake, the consequences were tragic and massive but he did nothing deliberate or malicious and it could happen to anyone.

I'm not sure how comfortable I am with the idea that something like that can get a contributing member of society sent to jail when dole-dossing scumbags can go out mugging grannies and not get sent down.

BTW, he's unlikely to see combat when he is an aircraft technician so wishing him dead is probably pointless .

I don't have an opinion on this case, but you don't do what he did from a 'momentary mistake'.

[t11ner]

He overtook, he misjudged it, that sounds to me like a momentary mistake. It's quite possible that his original poor decision could have happened a hundred times with no more consequences then just having to brake a bit and pull back behind the car he was going to pass, on this occasion it didn't work out that way.

I understand that there has to be consideration of the consequences of someones actions but isn't the more important thing is the intention behind the original act that caused the consequences? Was it deliberate, negligent, careless? Was the outcome in any way foreseeable?

I don't know any more of the facts than were in the linked article but he was only prosecuted for careless driving, if there was evidence that his original actions deserved a stronger charge surely he would have been done for dangerous driving or even manslaughter?

[Bill]

t11ner said:

Probably totally different but if we are going to base the justice system purely on the views of people who are emotionally involved then it's going to look pretty messy.

We're after justice, not revenge.

[becksW]

Whilst I agree that his actions may have been a genuine misjudgement on hia part and he has genuine remorse, I'm not sure I agree that a sentence should be agreed due to affects on careers. Harsh maybe but you would end up with double standards ie someone in exactly the same accident but not facing promotion or unemployed probably wouldn't have had a sentence suspended.

[elster]

Bill said:

t11ner said:

Probably totally different but if we are going to base the justice system purely on the views of people who are emotionally involved then it's going to look pretty messy.

We're after justice, not revenge.

Don't you read PH, Justice is only there for retribution.



Surely the Daily Wail tells us this daily.

[DSM2]

becksW said:

Whilst I agree that his actions may have been a genuine misjudgement on hia part and he has genuine remorse, I'm not sure I agree that a sentence should be agreed due to affects on careers. Harsh maybe but you would end up with double standards ie someone in exactly the same accident but not facing promotion or unemployed probably wouldn't have had a sentence suspended.

The point, exactly................

[Mr Dave]

It would have made more sense in this case for the RAF to make an exception to the rule where a jail term is an instant dismissal due to circumstances than the court changing the sentancing due to the offenders job.


I was going to say criminal, but is he really? Same as the fella on here that got locked up. Doesnt seem right to label them criminals.

I dont think it is fair really and fairness should be key to the justice system, same as when special consideration is taken into not banning someone for 12 points if their circumstances warrant it, surely the same rules should apply to all.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

DSM2 said:

becksW said:

Whilst I agree that his actions may have been a genuine misjudgement on hia part and he has genuine remorse, I'm not sure I agree that a sentence should be agreed due to affects on careers. Harsh maybe but you would end up with double standards ie someone in exactly the same accident but not facing promotion or unemployed probably wouldn't have had a sentence suspended.

The point, exactly................

I would presume they are looking at impact of the punishment on the individual.

Imprisoning an unemployed person who has never worked is not likely to 'ruin' their life.

However in this case as the driving was dangerous I think 8 months was quite lenient in the first place.

[GingerWizard]

hard one to call.

Maybe 8 years in the army on no pay would be better? A debt paid and all that....

Too many unknowns.

Just because he can pull a trigger/work a radio etcetra is not excuse enough for a peice of tragic st driving. (It must have been to kill 2 people)

Poorly reported news at its best.

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't think you hit another car hard enough to kill the occupants by accident. The neglect must have been so advanced as to call it criminal irresponsibility at best. I mean come on, you don't just 'mistime' an overtake so badly do you, there has to be a great intent to not care about the other party too, imo.

[10 Pence Short]

It's only since changes to the law in 2008 that this guy could be sent to jail for this offence. Before that the courts would more than likely have given 6-9 points and a fine.

[GingerWizard]

10 Pence Short said:

It's only since changes to the law in 2008 that this guy could be sent to jail for this offence. Before that the courts would more than likely have given 6-9 points and a fine.

We all know you have walked a similar line, and i bet you find this equally frustrating that this codswallop of news reporting is allowed.

What was the law change btw?

Gwiz

[Mr_annie_vxr]

Death by careless was introduced as an offence.

[Ozzie Osmond]

The main point is his conviction was for "careless driving" and not for "dangerous driving". The tragic outcome does not change the nature of the offence. A term of actual imprisonment for careless driving is unusual.

The Road Safety Act 2006 introduced the new offence of causing death by careless driving with a maximum 5 year prison sentence. Cases of causing death by careless driving fall into three categories:

(a) the ones which are particularly serious and are not far from dangerous driving;

(b) 'middle band' seriousness cases and;

(c) cases of careless or inconsiderate driving which arise from momentary inattention.

The last of these categories ( i.e. momentary lapse cases) are typically sentenced by way of community penalties e.g. tagging, community service etc. The more serious categories have starting points for sentencing of 6 months to 2 years imprisonment. At the end of the day sentencing is down to the court's discretion.

[10 Pence Short]

GingerWizard said:

10 Pence Short said:

It's only since changes to the law in 2008 that this guy could be sent to jail for this offence. Before that the courts would more than likely have given 6-9 points and a fine.

We all know you have walked a similar line, and i bet you find this equally frustrating that this codswallop of news reporting is allowed.

What was the law change btw?

Gwiz

It's a daft piece of legislation that typifies pandering to tabloid headlines at the expense of being just. Of course relatives of deceased loved ones find it hard that someone's lapse of standards has taken someone away. The way to deal with that is not by retribution against someone who has made a relatively minor mistake, though.


If the driving was so far below the standard and the driver is so culpable, charge for Dangerous and follow it through the courts. If he ends up in prison, so be it. If they cannot demonstrate the driving was so culpable as to be Dangerous, then they shouldn't have the same level of penalty available.

It stands at the moment that someone can drive extremely dangerously, maime someone for life and get a 12 month prison sentence. Another person can make a momentary lapse of standard and be imprisoned for 2 years.