newish to cycling - how far can i go? and what fuel to use?

[2seas]

apologies for flooding this section with posts, (well i'm not that sorry, just being polite )

I'm newish to cycling. I've been arsing around on my mate's mountain bike for the last month or so. I've probably used it about a dozen times. Usually I do about 10-15 miles of fairly easy riding but once i did 30 miles. Previous to this I haven't touched a bicycle since I was in my early teens, (i'm late 20's now).

I was wondering how far I could ride before I got exausted to the point that I felt I couldn't go on (whether this be due to feeling sick, physically exausted, mentally exausted or that i may be risking an injury). As soon as the weather is good i'll give it a shot. So, any guesses?

What i really need to know is what do you experienced cyclists use to keep yourself hydrated and fueled up? I imagine it is some sort of high carb energy drink...? I want to make sure i keep hydrated and have plenty of calories coming in so I can really find my max range...

Edited by 2seas on Wednesday 29th September 16:41

[darkyoung1000]

I tend to ride with a couple of litres if I'm going any distance; one of water and one of a fruit cordial with some salt added. With regard to food, I haven't done further than about 60 miles myself, and I did that on a sandwich and a pot of tea
Something that will easily fit in a jersey pocket...and can be unwrapped on a bike easily if you want to eat on the move! I tend to go with cereal bars and bananas, although your local bike shop will happily sell you all sorts of specialist food and drink.

How far you can go will depend greatly on terrain, fitness and whether the saddle you have fitted makes your sensitive parts numb within 20 miles or not. If you 'bonk' you'll know about it. Its when body and brain stop working in perfect harmony, and my advice at that point is to add sugar and stop riding.

This is all based upon my own experiences though, and I'm no biologist.

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Tom

[AyBee]

I find distance is mind over matter usually. Once got lost on a ride in France and with no food and a lack of water and no french, I just had to get on with it, you'd be suprised how far you can go when you think you've had enough. I tend just to eat normal food and none of the energy bars you can buy for ridiculous prices, chocolate bars, cakes and bananas are my snacks of choice. Managed to do 123miles in just over 7 hours with just those and water for company

[bikemonster]

Training is important too. Not only from the point of view of training your muscles, but training your body to tap into its reserves efficiently.

Other than that, water and bananas are your friends.

[Rich_W]

darkyoung1000 said:

... If you 'bonk' you'll know about it. ..

REAL Scientific Studies have shown that in nearly EVERY case "bonking" is actually the persons mind saying "Stop" and them quitting. It's not normally because they have run themselves into nothing. One study involved taking some rugby players to their maxHR. Then resting them. Then making them ride (on a static bike of course) at 90%+ of MaxHR for as long as they could. (Most averaged 10-12mins) Then having them get off and run flat out straight away. Most COULD do the very last bit. Despite stopping cycling as they were exhausted. The body is a funny old thing.

(This was in a recent copy of Triathlete Europe)

[CVP]

Rich_W said:

REAL Scientific Studies have shown that in nearly EVERY case "bonking" is actually the persons mind saying "Stop" and them quitting.

Isn't that often the case though? When training or racing in any field involving physical activity (esp endurance events), often the difference between winning and losing is not so much in the body but in the mind. Either through the amount of discomfort you can endure or the strength of your mind to focus on the end of the event.

[Camoradi]

CVP said:

Rich_W said:

REAL Scientific Studies have shown that in nearly EVERY case "bonking" is actually the persons mind saying "Stop" and them quitting.

Isn't that often the case though? When training or racing in any field involving physical activity (esp endurance events), often the difference between winning and losing is not so much in the body but in the mind. Either through the amount of discomfort you can endure or the strength of your mind to focus on the end of the event.

I have personal experience which backs up this theory. In the late 1980s, in a triathlon of about 3 hours duration, I was seriously running out of energy, cramp, the works. Eventually I reached the finish line and literally fell over it and woke up 40 minutes later in the St John's ambulance tent. The first thing I asked was "did I finish?"

Endurance sports / racing is all about preparation beforehand, and pain management on the day

[2seas]

well i went out on Saturday and it was a bit of a saga:

- 9 miles in, when changing gear, my rear wheel locked up on a corner and i fell off my bike

- just after falling off i heard an almighty fog horn which nearly gave me a heart attack. there was a big lorry following me, who had managed to stop in plenty of time. why he felt the need to blast his horn is beyond me...

- so no injuries and i carried my bike off the road. inspection revealed that the gear changer thingy had caught on one of my spokes, thus locking the rear wheel. i managed to untangle the gear changer thingy, which looked a bit bent but it seemed to work. i manually changed the gearing to the largest cog on the front and about midway on the back. the rest of the bike was undamaged so i set off again, but didn't change gear for the rest of the ride.

- about 18 miles in and the weather (forecast to be clear all day) decided to start chucking it down. great.

- i ended up doing 74 miles which took me a little over 5 hours (including the stoppage). i didn't have a odometer/speedo so i didn't realise how far i'd gone at the time but i had hoped in my head that 5 hours would be 100 miles which was my goal. so it was a little disappointing to find i did 74 and wasn't too far off the century. having said that i did do it all in the hard gear, which is a consolation in my mind.

- by the end i was absolutely exhausted. i ran out of drink about 4 hours in so the last hour was battling thirst as well as lactic acid. i did think about stopping at a shop but i felt as though if i stopped i wouldn't be able to get going again. a theory which was well founded, as when i got home i crashed onto the living room floor and lay there foetal like for a while until my legs stopped burning. any attempt to stretch/move further resulted in cramping. after a while i mustered the energy to reach for my phone and order a dominos - possibly the best tasting pizza i've ever had!

- so in conclusion while i'm still suffering a bit even now (especially going up stairs), at least i've set a good solid benchmark. oh and i have a newfound respect for the tour de france racers - 30 mph average all day and up those mountains?!?! wtf!

[john_p]

2seas said:

- so no injuries and i carried my bike off the road. inspection revealed that the gear changer thingy had caught on one of my spokes, thus locking the rear wheel. i managed to untangle the gear changer thingy, which looked a bit bent but it seemed to work. i manually changed the gearing to the largest cog on the front and about midway on the back. the rest of the bike was undamaged so i set off again, but didn't change gear for the rest of the ride.

- i ended up doing 74 miles which took me a little over 5 hours (including the stoppage). i didn't have a odometer/speedo so i didn't realise how far i'd gone at the time but i had hoped in my head that 5 hours would be 100 miles which was my goal. so it was a little disappointing to find i did 74 and wasn't too far off the century. having said that i did do it all in the hard gear, which is a consolation in my mind.

IMO, 74 miles in 5 hours is very respectable. Good work! And now you have a clear target to get to..

You need to adjust the "high limit" and "low limit" of your rear derallieur, these are hard stops designed to stop the derallieur from doing what happened to you. Have a google and look up instructions, it's easy to do with a screwdriver.

If you have bent the jockey wheel frame you might need a new derailleur but if it shifts ok and is straightish I wouldn't worry.

[RichB]

2seas said:

...i have a newfound respect for the tour de France racers - 30 mph average all day and up those mountains?!?! wtf!

A mate of mine does the Etapes every year, basically where amateurs do a stage of the tour route. This year I think it was around 8 hours cycling, 120 miles and 4,500m climbing in the Pyrenees! Yes it's hard...

[RichB]

thegavster said:

OP, with all due respect, stop faffinf around, just get out there and ride increasing the distance slowly each time. You don't need hi carb drinks and all that...

Very true. I've noticed a tendancy for people to assume this fancy stuff is essential but don't get sucked in my the adverts. Fitness is fitness water will do fine but when I was marathon runnig I used to put a small scoop of Isostar in the bottle just to add some flavour about 1/3 strength otherwise it's too sweet and sticky. I guess the instructions are there to make you use loads of it!

[Daveyraveygravey]

I've found the caffeine gels give me a helluva boost, but it is a bit like running your car engine beyond the limiter. I did the London 2 Brighton ride, and then did the return trip. About half way back I was completely wasted, thinking about ringing someone to come and get me. I took a caffeine gel at this point, and managed to do the last 25-odd miles almost without noticing it. Not sure how it works, but it got me home, although my thighs were rock hard for about a week after, a muscle soreness I haven't experienced before. If I take them now, I deliberately don't push myself.

On a long ride, I try to eat a little, and often. Usually something once an hour, a banana, or a flapjack or a mars bar. A pocket full of jelly beans is nice too, helps relieve some of the more boring bits.

Lots of liquids too, water and energy gels as well as the odd caffeine.

And if you stop, only do it for 10 or 15 mins. I stopped for a pub lunch one time, and although the beer and pub grub were lovely, getting started again after was horrendous.

Edited by Daveyraveygravey on Tuesday 5th October 20:15

[DrMekon]

Furthest I've ridden in a day is 200 miles (overdistance on a 300km audax). It took 14h52m, but I was only riding for 11h46 of that (ave moving speed 26.9kph). On that I ate / drank the following:

7.5 litres of SIS electrolyte
1 banana
2 large flapjacks
8 choc chip breakfast bars
2 coffees
4 caffeine gels
Double egg and chips
2 packets of ready salted crisps
2 packets of sour jelly beans

I probably didn't eat enough, but it was a case of deliberately eating / drinking when I didn't want to after about 220km. Next year, I plan to do a 400km and a 600km, so I need to get better at getting the food down me.

Edited by DrMekon on Wednesday 6th October 11:43

[2seas]

i've read through a fair bit of material on sports nutrition on the web and i've just bought myself a very detailed (and quite technical) book to enhance that knowledge further. i'm not professing to be an expert - but equally i like to think i'm not ignorant on the subject.

there have been a lot of studies which result in overwhelming evidence to support the fact that correct nutrition can greatly enhance performance when performing endurance exercises. this applies to both beginners and professionals. so it's all well for people to say "just drink water and get on with it”, or, “i had 5 pints and a chippy halfway through my ride and i was fine” etc etc (sorry for the slight exaggeration). But, have those people ever tried to fuel their bodies the 'right' way? – I’m betting you would see a great improvement.

So, thanks for your post above – very helpful and there’s a few things in there I’m going to try out.

[2seas]

Daveyraveygravey said:

I've found the caffeine gels give me a helluva boost, but it is a bit like running your car engine beyond the limiter. I did the London 2 Brighton ride, and then did the return trip. About half way back I was completely wasted, thinking about ringing someone to come and get me. I took a caffeine gel at this point, and managed to do the last 25-odd miles almost without noticing it. Not sure how it works, but it got me home, although my thighs were rock hard for about a week after, a muscle soreness I haven't experienced before. If I take them now, I deliberately don't push myself.

On a long ride, I try to eat a little, and often. Usually something once an hour, a banana, or a flapjack or a mars bar. A pocket full of jelly beans is nice too, helps relieve some of the more boring bits.

Lots of liquids too, water and energy gels as well as the odd caffeine.

And if you stop, only do it for 10 or 15 mins. I stopped for a pub lunch one time, and although the beer and pub grub were lovely, getting started again after was horrendous.

Edited by Daveyraveygravey on Tuesday 5th October 20:15

interesting, the 'eating once every hour' practice is very similar to what they recommend in a book i'm currently reading. It also echos similar food types to the ones you mention. i haven't got to the bit about caffeine yet - but i want to try and understand the science of why/how it actually impacts performance..

[2seas]

thegavster said:

Stop being such a big girl, I bet the amount of time you've spent reading about it on the net you could have done some decent length rides.

I've just checked some family history and around 1938, my Nan, bless her, cycled 355 miles in one day. On a bike you probably wouldn't even consider using to pop to the shops on these days.

So stop being a girl, stop reading about it and get on your bike.

And yes, I have fuelled myself properly.

what exactly is your basis for the assumption that wanting nutritional advice means i must be procrastinating and not actually riding my bike?

literally days after my first rode bike arrived i took it out for a 5 hour stint. i have also mentioned that i'm planning on doing similar at the next opportunity.

i'm after some advice on nutrition. if you genuinely believe that what you eat/drink during a ride has no affect on your performance then i wont bother continuing this conversation. Otherwise, i would be more than grateful for any advice.

[mrandy]

Eat 3 hours before you go out no less,take a carb drink sis is good,take a bannana and some gel bars.You should aim at eating something every 20-30mins,dont wait then gorge the key is to eat small amounts often.Just as important is a good carb recovery drink immediately after you stop.
Any scientist who says the bonk is in the mind has never experienced it for real

[Fatman2]

RichB said:

thegavster said:

OP, with all due respect, stop faffinf around, just get out there and ride increasing the distance slowly each time. You don't need hi carb drinks and all that...

Very true. I've noticed a tendancy for people to assume this fancy stuff is essential but don't get sucked in my the adverts. Fitness is fitness water will do fine but when I was marathon runnig I used to put a small scoop of Isostar in the bottle just to add some flavour about 1/3 strength otherwise it's too sweet and sticky. I guess the instructions are there to make you use loads of it!

True, you don't need fancy stuff but it's good to have something if you're going to do any endurance work.

I'm not a big fan of supplements but if I'm on a bike for 4-6 hours then high carb drinks can be very useful indeed!! I think running a marathon is harder on the body than riding a century but you definitely need some energy to hit the hills and in this respect any calories you can take in are a bonus.

For the OP though I'd say that anything up to 3 hours is ok with just water/juice. Anything past that and you're entering food territory

[mrandy]

going without food for 3 hours is not a good idea

[mrandy]

thegavster said:

mrandy said:

going without food for 3 hours is not a good idea

Why, do you spontaneously combust or something?

Well i cant go for more than 20 minutes without a bag of crisps so would probably wither away.The OP wanted advice on fuel for cycling yes you can go 3 hours without food maybe even 12 who knows a week but its not a sensible suggestion