Scottish Football - Why?

[Kermit power]

I don't know much about football, so apologies if this is an oft-covered debate, but why do the Scots bother with a separate football league?

The sports news on the radio on the way to work this morning said something about both Rangers and Celtic winning games yesterday. This seems somewhat monotonous, I thought.

I've just done a quick google, and sure enough it's over quarter of a century since anyone other than Rangers or Celtic won the Scottish league.

Why do they bother? Wouldn't it just make more sense for them to join the English leagues to give the top two clubs more competition, and at least give all the rest the added variety of being beaten by someone else from time to time?

[Dan_1981]

They'd fit in fine in something like the Northern Blue Square Premier if you ask me.

[Devilstreak]

This comes up all the time. But why should they get a pass into the Premier League? Why not the Championship? League 1/2 and work their way up?

And do you think the likes of the London teams would want to travel god knows how many miles to Scotland at the weekend?

I don't think it will ever happen.

[Kermit power]

Devilstreak said:

This comes up all the time. But why should they get a pass into the Premier League? Why not the Championship? League 1/2 and work their way up?

I'm not saying they should necessarily start in the top flight. Just questioning it in general.

Devilstreak said:

And do you think the likes of the London teams would want to travel god knows how many miles to Scotland at the weekend?

That was my initial thinking, but it turns out that Glasgow actually has an airport. You can get there from Heathrow or Gatwick in 90 minutes.

I was gobsmacked to discover that even Hull actually has an airport, but it seems you have to fly via Aberdeen or Amsterdam to get there (some form of quarantine regulation or something, I'd imagine) so it's actually faster to drive there than it is to fly, although both take a good 4 hours.

Thus, by virtue of the Scottish teams being a little further away, they're actually quicker to get to than some of the English tundra clubs.

[Devilstreak]

Good points, But from what I've heard from a lad that used to live up that way, If Rangers/Celtic were to leave, the league would fall apart as they are the big money spinners.

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places, As they wouldn't get them if they joined our league/s.

[Torquey]

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

[Eric Mc]

And why a separate Northern Ireland league?

Because Scotland and Northern Ireland are totally separate countries as set out under the regulations of FIFA and UEFA.

The odd ball is Wales, which does have its own league too but some Welsh teams do play in the English League.
Having said that, one English team plays in the Scottish League (Berwick Rangers) and one Northern Irish Team (Derry City) playes in the Irish Republic's League (The League of Ireland).

It's all a bit messy really.

[anonymous-user]

Torquey said:

Devilstreak said:

Plus I think they secretly quite like having no competition for the European places,

And they know they wouldnt last 5 mins in the premier league thus getting zero recognition after 2 or 3 seasons.

I think they'd survive in the Premiership, look at teams who are going up and down each season like Wolves, Reading, Norwich City, Hull etc. Rangers and Celtic are both much better and bigger clubs than them.

Rangers and Celtic would love to be in the Premiership, the TV money would far outweigh any reward from easy European places. It's not really in their benefit to keep playing clubs like Inverness Caledonian Thistle each week. There might be a settling in period before all that SKY money could be invested into new players but after that they'd both be solid Premiership clubs.

[ammw]

Only 4 teams have ever won the English Premier League, and it's been over 15 years since anyone other than ManU, Chelsea or Arsenal won it. So, maybe all the other teams should just give up or maybe the 'big-3' should move into a European league and leave the minnows to fight it out for the EPL.

Seriously, I can't the old-firm playing in the English leagues any time soon, but if it did happen I reckon they could finish mid-table in the EPL.

[Silver993tt]

Devilstreak said:

And do you think the likes of the London teams would want to travel god knows how many miles to Scotland at the weekend?

Some teams in teh German Bundesliga travel similar distances as London-Scotland without an issue, so I don't see why distance would be a problem.

[Kermit power]

ammw said:

Only 4 teams have ever won the English Premier League, and it's been over 15 years since anyone other than ManU, Chelsea or Arsenal won it. So, maybe all the other teams should just give up or maybe the 'big-3' should move into a European league and leave the minnows to fight it out for the EPL.

Fair point, but even so, it's not quite the same as Scotland, is it? Between them, Celtic & Rangers have won 4 times out of 5 for the entire 120 years that the Scots have been playing football in a league!

[Lastinclass]

Not exact on the numbers but both Celtic and Rangers fill their ground each week (circa 60000) and take huge numbers of travelling support with them that pretty much keeps the rest of the SPL afloat. A cup tie away to one of them can support a lower league team for the season I would imagine.
I'm an Aberdeen fan and I really reckon the SPL and most of Scottish football would fold if you took the old firm out. Aside from that most of the provincial teams wouldn't have the finances to survive in the lower "British leagues" if they were amalgamated due to the travelling costs.
Recently I have spoken to a couple of players that are looking to go to league 2 sides as they can at least match the money and they don't have to play the same sides at least 4 times every season!!

The quality in the Scottish game by and large is abysmal, but there is nothing to aspire to apart from a move to one or other of the old firm to pick up win bonus's, or lower English league club's to pick up bigger wages.

Amalgamation of the leagues would see a lot of clubs fold but might raise the quality of what is left and hopefully the national teams..

[Eric Mc]

No - just more foreign players being imported into the Scottish teams.

[Hugo a Gogo]

If the Old Firm got into the EPL, whether by working up through lower leagues or directly in, they'd soon be a permanent fixture

massive fanbase (number of shirts sold by UK teams, Celtic and Rangers aren't far behind the big 4 in England) big attendances, big stadiums - combine that with big TV money and the new-found ability to attract big players on a equal footing with EPL teams (instead of paying a premium to players for 'slumming' in Scotland)

[XMES RUS]

And what makes you think they derserve to put straight into the Prem league? Both clubs would struggle in the Championship and im often told this by the wee lads themselves.
I see no benefits from this for either the English or Scottish FA's.

[Hugo a Gogo]

why exactly would the teams struggle? maybe with the players they have today they would, but they'd soon be able to get new players

anyway, I don't believe it will ever happen

[XMES RUS]

I just dont think over a season they would be good enough, even more so now both clubs has no real money or draw for better players.

Who wants to go out in the first round of the Champions league every year:-)


I agree, it will never happen.

Edited by XMES RUS on Thursday 28th October 14:32

[TriumphVitesse]

Imagine if the whole of the Scottish League was amalgamated into the English Leagues & Plymouth drew Elgin City away in the first round of the Carling Cup on a Tuesday night!

[Stevenj214]

XMES RUS said:

I just dont think over a season they would be good enough, even more so now both clubs has no real money or draw for better players.

Without the money and draw, Rangers are putting up a fair go of it in the Champions League this season so far.

Personally I'd like to see the SPL extended to 16 teams, playing each other twice.

At the moment, if you assume Rangers and Celtic will win all of their games, the 3rd place team would be 24 points adrift if they won all other games.

A league with 16 teams playing each other twice would cut that 'deficit' to 12 and make the league more competitive and unpredictable.

[deevlash]

The Premiership dont want Rangers or Celtic. The rest would no doubt end up in the championship or lower but with Celtic in particulars fan base theyd be bloody huge, especially with Sky TV cash.

Plus without a seperate league we'd lose the home nations national sides and be forced to have a UK side by the whingers in Uefa. Now I dont know about you but the thought of having to cheer for Wayne Rooney, Gerrard and all the other we shagging, coke snorting arses that infest your national side doesnt exactly fill me with any great sense of joy.