Changes to 2011 MOT Scaremongering???

Changes to 2011 MOT Scaremongering???

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youngsyr

Original Poster:

14,739 posts

191 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Read this article which sounds like absolute bcensoredllcensoredcks to me from a second rate website, but does anyone know any more about it?

wrecks2riches said:
Still 13 months away until these new regulations come into force, but some interesting changes. From MOT from December 2011, the below changes will come into force, which will be very bad news for some.

HID lights – Specifically those aftermarket kits that give the very bright headlight beams. Any cars found with these kits will be an automatic MOT failure. Testers are able to easily spot the difference between HID kits, and manufacturer fitted Xenon’s. Easy to spot as Xenon cars have suspension level sensors, in car beam adjuster, and usually headlight washers.

Chipped ECU’s - Unsure of just how/if this one will realistically be enforced, but any cars with chipped ECU’s will in theory be an MOT failure. I can only assume VOSA have found an easy way of checking ECU software through the cars OBD port (diagnostic plug).

Wiring harness – The general condition of he wiring harness will be checked to make sure there is no rubbing or chaffing, and that the harnesses are in generally good condition. If unsecure, or damaged again MOT failure.

Airbag warning lights - If any warning lights are illuminated, it will again be an MOT failure.
Source: http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to...

wombat172a

1,455 posts

182 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Not a clue about the validity of it but here's my 2p worth:

youngsyr said:
Read this article which sounds like absolute bcensoredllcensoredcks to me from a second rate website, but does anyone know any more about it?

wrecks2riches said:
Still 13 months away until these new regulations come into force, but some interesting changes. From MOT from December 2011, the below changes will come into force, which will be very bad news for some.

HID lights – Specifically those aftermarket kits that give the very bright headlight beams. Any cars found with these kits will be an automatic MOT failure. Testers are able to easily spot the difference between HID kits, and manufacturer fitted Xenon’s. Easy to spot as Xenon cars have suspension level sensors, in car beam adjuster, and usually headlight washers. Good thing - as far as I'm aware it's the after market HIDs which absolutely blind oncoming drivers

Chipped ECU’s - Unsure of just how/if this one will realistically be enforced, but any cars with chipped ECU’s will in theory be an MOT failure. I can only assume VOSA have found an easy way of checking ECU software through the cars OBD port (diagnostic plug). Agreed, unsure on how it would be checked, and I don't agree with it being MOTable either

Wiring harness – The general condition of he wiring harness will be checked to make sure there is no rubbing or chaffing, and that the harnesses are in generally good condition. If unsecure, or damaged again MOT failure. Definitely a good thing!

Airbag warning lights - If any warning lights are illuminated, it will again be an MOT failure. Probably valid concern, but will be a PITA - especially as mine's on


Source: http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to...
Edited by wombat172a on Tuesday 9th November 10:11

kambites

67,461 posts

220 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
My thoughts:

Aftermarket HIDs are already illegal in the huge majority of cases (they need to be type approved for road use) so this is just additional enforcement of an existing law. I don't really have strong feelings on it since I don't have HIDs and wouldn't fit an illegal set anyway, but I'd imagine this will annoy a lot of people.

I can't imagine how they could possibly enforce the chipped ECU thing, or why they'd want to as long as the car meets all emissions requirements.

Checking the wiring loom for damage doesn't seem like a bad idea. How many fires are caused by damaged looms?

Airbag lights... to be honest, I'm quite surprised that nanny state hasn't already done this. It'll drive a lot of older cars off the road.




It's quite possibly made up anyway, no idea.

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 9th November 10:16

KaraK

13,177 posts

208 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Well the source link they gave was to an article detailing 2010 changes not 2011 and a quick scan of those doesn't reveal any mention of the supposed changes?

Personally I'm calling bullst at this stage.

AndyDRZ

1,202 posts

235 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Makes sense for the most part by the ECU thing is garbage.

Are they going to fail older cars that have re-jetted the carbs? driving


8400rpm

1,777 posts

166 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
The ECU thing is complete bks, and the HID one is too, to a certain extent.

Not all cars on the road have OBD ports to plug into, for a start. My Type-R certainly doesn't, and it's a 2000 model, what about cars older? Nonsense.

Also, not all HID equipped cars from the factory have self levelling or washers, specifically many SVA legal imports, as it's not a requirement in Japan.

Are all these cars going to be made illegal overnight? No. Fair play, make it illegal for the idiots who plug aftermarket HID kits into their halogen housings, but cars with factory specification HIDs that don't have auto levellers or washers aren't an issue for glaring people.

Cars with badly adjusted halogen lights or driving with main beam on are the main offenders, with aftermarket HID kits coming in second.

aeropilot

34,297 posts

226 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
8400rpm said:
The ECU thing is complete bks, and the HID one is too, to a certain extent.

Not all cars on the road have OBD ports to plug into, for a start. My Type-R certainly doesn't, and it's a 2000 model, what about cars older? Nonsense.
I call BS on the ECU as well, as even at main dealer level with OEM diagnostic software you sometimes have to delve to see if a ECU has been modified, so I can't see how it could realistically be done with a generic OBD tool....and how could it tell whether it's a factory approved ECU upgrade or not as well?....definate BS.

Aftermarket HID's and airbag warning light on, I don't see as a bad idea...... if true.

cbcbcb

270 posts

210 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
It's mentioned in the "Matters of testing" MOT testers' newsletter, issue 48.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/newsletter...

It says

newsletter said:
Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.
Referring to the EU directive in question: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Section 6.1.9 lists
EU said:
6.1.9. Engine performance - Visual inspection - (a) Control unit illegal modified (b) illegal engine modification
Looks like it is coming, but even VOSA don't know how to police it.

youngsyr

Original Poster:

14,739 posts

191 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
cbcbcb said:
It's mentioned in the "Matters of testing" MOT testers' newsletter, issue 48.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/newsletter...

It says

newsletter said:
Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.
Referring to the EU directive in question: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Section 6.1.9 lists
EU said:
6.1.9. Engine performance - Visual inspection - (a) Control unit illegal modified (b) illegal engine modification
Looks like it is coming, but even VOSA don't know how to police it.
What is "illegal" engine chipping - it's not illegal to modify or "chip" your ECU? confused

MarJay

2,173 posts

174 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Engine modification is not currently illegal in this country.

It is in Germany for example though...

aka_kerrly

12,415 posts

209 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Those changes aren't that bad at all and our MOT in the UK is still far from the strictest test.

The rules regarding HID need to be looked at, not just aftermarket kits though, factory fit items need to have more specific rules on outputs, heights and adjustability.

ECU mapping, I don't see the issue, especially when a fair number of people have remaps to improve the economy of the engine. Surely so long as the car passes the CO2 emmissions it is acceptable?

Finally on wiring looms, it makes sense but I have always assumed that this would have been aprt of the visual inspection of the engine bay and could/would have failed previously. One potential problem for MOT testers is how to deal with cars with hidden wiring looms?

dave

Negative Creep

24,942 posts

226 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
cbcbcb said:
It's mentioned in the "Matters of testing" MOT testers' newsletter, issue 48.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/newsletter...

It says

newsletter said:
Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.
Referring to the EU directive in question: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Section 6.1.9 lists
EU said:
6.1.9. Engine performance - Visual inspection - (a) Control unit illegal modified (b) illegal engine modification
Looks like it is coming, but even VOSA don't know how to police it.
What is "illegal" engine chipping - it's not illegal to modify or "chip" your ECU? confused
It says visual inspection so how would you know the ECU has been modified? Also I'm confused about how an engine modification could be illegal, unless it's declared to your insurers of which the MOT station has no way of knowing

aeropilot

34,297 posts

226 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
youngsyr said:
What is "illegal" engine chipping - it's not illegal to modify or "chip" your ECU? confused
Non TUV approved would be a better description than illegal, but, essential the same thing I guess.

It is the case in other parts of the EU already..... if any part isn't TUV approved it can't be fitted......and that includes ECU upgrades. Which is why factory approved (and therefore TUV approved) ECU upgrades are so much more expensive than aftermarket....... but in some EU states, that's all you can do, and the UK WILL go that route before too long........it's been warned about for some time, but people keep sticking their heads in holes in the ground and going LA-LA-LA-LA etc.

thegreenhell

15,111 posts

218 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
youngsyr said:
cbcbcb said:
It's mentioned in the "Matters of testing" MOT testers' newsletter, issue 48.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/newsletter...

It says

newsletter said:
Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.
Referring to the EU directive in question: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Section 6.1.9 lists
EU said:
6.1.9. Engine performance - Visual inspection - (a) Control unit illegal modified (b) illegal engine modification
Looks like it is coming, but even VOSA don't know how to police it.
What is "illegal" engine chipping - it's not illegal to modify or "chip" your ECU? confused
It says visual inspection so how would you know the ECU has been modified? Also I'm confused about how an engine modification could be illegal, unless it's declared to your insurers of which the MOT station has no way of knowing
I can only imagine that they are referring to the eBay resitor mods - 20bhp for £20 type of things. To actually interrogate an ECU for mods to the map would be almost impossible to police on the scale of an annual MOT test, and as far as I know it isn't illegal to remap your ECU anyway.

And what about aftermarket ECUs? One of my cars is running an Emerald ECU, on which it is possible to have multiple maps simultaneously loaded and switched on-the-fly, one of them being an 'MOT-friendly' map.

youngsyr

Original Poster:

14,739 posts

191 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Negative Creep said:
youngsyr said:
cbcbcb said:
It's mentioned in the "Matters of testing" MOT testers' newsletter, issue 48.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications/newsletter...

It says

newsletter said:
Other items – such as headlamp
bulb and unit incompatibility,
headlamp levelling devices and
illegal engine ‘chipping’ – will need
further thought before we can get
a workable solution for MOT
stations.
Referring to the EU directive in question: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?...

Section 6.1.9 lists
EU said:
6.1.9. Engine performance - Visual inspection - (a) Control unit illegal modified (b) illegal engine modification
Looks like it is coming, but even VOSA don't know how to police it.
What is "illegal" engine chipping - it's not illegal to modify or "chip" your ECU? confused
It says visual inspection so how would you know the ECU has been modified? Also I'm confused about how an engine modification could be illegal, unless it's declared to your insurers of which the MOT station has no way of knowing
If it's just a remap of the standard ECU, then you wouldn't be able to tell by looking at it, but many cars cannot have the standard ECU remapped and so will have piggback ECUs or even full replacement ECUs fitted which will be obvious.

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Oh yes! Johnny Saxo and his Chinese bright blue laser death beam HIDs: goodbyeeee! biggrin

youngsyr

Original Poster:

14,739 posts

191 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
aeropilot said:
youngsyr said:
What is "illegal" engine chipping - it's not illegal to modify or "chip" your ECU? confused
Non TUV approved would be a better description than illegal, but, essential the same thing I guess.

It is the case in other parts of the EU already..... if any part isn't TUV approved it can't be fitted......and that includes ECU upgrades. Which is why factory approved (and therefore TUV approved) ECU upgrades are so much more expensive than aftermarket....... but in some EU states, that's all you can do, and the UK WILL go that route before too long........it's been warned about for some time, but people keep sticking their heads in holes in the ground and going LA-LA-LA-LA etc.
I believe there are similar laws in California, where modifications need offical ("CARB") approval to be legal for their smog checks and if it can happen in the States, I've no doubt it can happen in the EU.


youngsyr

Original Poster:

14,739 posts

191 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
Dog Star said:
Oh yes! Johnny Saxo and his Chinese bright blue laser death beam HIDs: goodbyeeee! biggrin
Yeah right, because no car has ever passed an MOT with non-road legal parts fitted! laugh

300bhp/ton

41,030 posts

189 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
ok my take...
youngsyr said:
Read this article which sounds like absolute bcensoredllcensoredcks to me from a second rate website, but does anyone know any more about it?

wrecks2riches said:
Still 13 months away until these new regulations come into force, but some interesting changes. From MOT from December 2011, the below changes will come into force, which will be very bad news for some.

HID lights – Specifically those aftermarket kits that give the very bright headlight beams. Any cars found with these kits will be an automatic MOT failure. Testers are able to easily spot the difference between HID kits, and manufacturer fitted Xenon’s. Easy to spot as Xenon cars have suspension level sensors, in car beam adjuster, and usually headlight washers.
already regulated, no need to be part of the MoT, however can see that it might be considered. Can't see the point really, I mean lets face it the number of people with aftermarket HID kits is probably pretty low in percentage terms and such an MoT check won't stop people driving with mainbeam lights on or foglights on towards other traffic. Not too mention you could always swap over some HIB bulbs with ease.

Also this would need to be highly more accurate, having HID non dipped headlights, i.e. spots or flood lights is not illegal at all.

Chipped ECU’s - Unsure of just how/if this one will realistically be enforced, but any cars with chipped ECU’s will in theory be an MOT failure. I can only assume VOSA have found an easy way of checking ECU software through the cars OBD port (diagnostic plug).

Total rubbish IMO. What is a "chipped ECU"? Is it an ECU running a piggy back chip, an ECU with a physically replaced chip? An ECU running an additional control box or an ECU running a different map?

Which ECU?? A gearbox can have a separate ECU, in fact a car can have a dozen plus ECU's controlling different functions.

And even once you figure out what they are talking about. Why and how would it be checkable? Not all ECU's are OBD or OBDII compliant. And they'd need to have a DB of ALL maps ever used by an auto maker - which lets face it is not just unlikely but plain bonkers. smart offered a "dealer fit" remap for the smart Roadster for instance, so not factory spec, but still manufacturer. There are also different base map versions availale

Lastly, if it's just the engine ECU, then this controls ignitions and fueling. A critical component to making a car run right on different fuel grades. In fact pretty much the same as messing about with carb jets and needles and ignition points. - in short it must be total BS!

Wiring harness – The general condition of he wiring harness will be checked to make sure there is no rubbing or chaffing, and that the harnesses are in generally good condition. If unsecure, or damaged again MOT failure.

Is this not already suitably checked for? And as most wiring looms are internal and you can't see them without taking the car apart, I don't believe they will ever individually check them for an MoT. It could take 2 weeks easy to properly inspect a wiring loom on something like a BMW M5!!!!

Airbag warning lights - If any warning lights are illuminated, it will again be an MOT failure.
Source: http://wrecks2riches.co.uk/2010/10/2011-changes-to...

Compo_Simmonite

391 posts

186 months

Tuesday 9th November 2010
quotequote all
From what I can gather the ECU aspect is in connection with road tax bands being based on emissions. If you have say a £0 or £30 pa etc band vehicle and then chip / modify to higher spec where £100+ pa is applicable then the governement is loosing out.
Not sure how they would impliment but it will be aimed at post March 2001 vehicles.

Paul H