Continuous Insurance crap

[Nigel Worc's]

I could be being wound up here, but this is stupid enough for me to believe it.

It would appear that those who sit in ivory towers dreaming up more ways of fining vehicle owners for just owning vehicles, have been at it again.

http://www.biba.org.uk/PDFfiles/CIELeaflet2010.pdf

My question, to anyone that knows about this stuff is :

Given that unless a vehicle is declared sorn , it will require insurance ......

What about those of us who own vehicles that haven't been taxed recently enough to need sorning, but the vehicle is still redgistered to us, and will show up on the MID as uninsured ?

[saaby93]

It says it's now introducing it

Is this true?

That flow chart looks like a ticket to earn loads of cash

[R1 Loon]

I'm pretty certain that this scheme wasn't introduced to specifically upset you. It is another tool in the fight to get uninsured drivers off the road, which can only be a good thing (saaby please don't start asking ridiculous question sabout changing dustcaps etc).

The first thing that will happen is that a letter will be sent to you next year advising you that your vehicle is uninsured and give you the options.

Declaring SORN takes 3 minutes online at this website:

http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/appl...

Once done that you'll receive a reminder every year, just like your Road Tax reminders and it will take 3 minutes to renew it. I do it on my trackbike and it's an absolute doddle.

Is that 3 minutes so critical to your life, that it's worth uninsured drivers causing the heartache they do, as well as costing upwards of £500million per annum?

If it is so critical to you, then expect a FPN through the post, but the choice is yours. Another suggestion is that 99.99% of the adult population have mobile phones, PDAs or diary planners, so pop a reminder in there for yourself two weeks before it's due and you won;t have th eproblem of forgetting to do it, even if the reminder doesn't arrive (never happened in my experience).

[Mojooo]

As I understand it, you currently declare SORN if you have no tax right?

And it means your car is not even allowed to be parked on a public road (?)

--

What this means is that you will also have to declare SORN when there is no insurance on the car.

I agree that it could work OK in theory.

Presumably if you get insurance, you take off the SORN, the insurance company updates the database?

[saaby93]

SOMEONE TELL ME THIS HASNT COME IN YET
So what happens to everyone that has a taxed project in their back yard which they insure for the few days they want to take it out on the road?
Are they about to get a letter saying their P&J is not insured (which they already know) and so a NIP is due (which they dont)?

[Nigel Worc's]

R1 Loon said:

I'm pretty certain that this scheme wasn't introduced to specifically upset you. It is another tool in the fight to get uninsured drivers off the road, which can only be a good thing (saaby please don't start asking ridiculous question sabout changing dustcaps etc).

The first thing that will happen is that a letter will be sent to you next year advising you that your vehicle is uninsured and give you the options.

Declaring SORN takes 3 minutes online at this website:

http://www.taxdisc.direct.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/appl...

Once done that you'll receive a reminder every year, just like your Road Tax reminders and it will take 3 minutes to renew it. I do it on my trackbike and it's an absolute doddle.

Is that 3 minutes so critical to your life, that it's worth uninsured drivers causing the heartache they do, as well as costing upwards of £500million per annum?

If it is so critical to you, then expect a FPN through the post, but the choice is yours. Another suggestion is that 99.99% of the adult population have mobile phones, PDAs or diary planners, so pop a reminder in there for yourself two weeks before it's due and you won;t have th eproblem of forgetting to do it, even if the reminder doesn't arrive (never happened in my experience).

I think you missunderstand my particular question, although you presume correctly that I'm anti rules for rules sake on motorised vehicle owners.

I have a motorcycle, it was first redg in 1980, it was last taxed in 1986, when I bought this bike a couple of years ago (I was actually it's first owner too, which is why I wanted it, but that's another story), I redgistered it to myself (of course), and promptly took it apart to rebuild it .... it's only been a couple of years, so it's still in pieces ...... I contacted dvla to "sorn" it as soon as I recieved the V5C.

Dvla informed me it couldn't be sorned, as it hadn't been taxed since 1999 or 2000 (something like that), so until I tax it, it wont need sorning, and in fact, cannot be sorned.

So ..... I have a vehicle redg to me, that cannot be sorned, that will show up as unisured on the MID ...... hence the question

[vonhosen]

No Insurance is a no NIP offence.

[saaby93]

vonhosen said:

No Insurance is a no NIP offence.

Theres a flow chart with NIP in that pdf?
ETA its not a NIP it's a FPN
( as if thats any better)

Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 2nd December 22:45

[R1 Loon]

Nigel Worc's said:

I think you missunderstand my particular question, although you presume correctly that I'm anti rules for rules sake on motorised vehicle owners.

I have a motorcycle, it was first redg in 1980, it was last taxed in 1986, when I bought this bike a couple of years ago (I was actually it's first owner too, which is why I wanted it, but that's another story), I redgistered it to myself (of course), and promptly took it apart to rebuild it .... it's only been a couple of years, so it's still in pieces ...... I contacted dvla to "sorn" it as soon as I recieved the V5C.

Dvla informed me it couldn't be sorned, as it hadn't been taxed since 1999 or 2000 (something like that), so until I tax it, it wont need sorning, and in fact, cannot be sorned.

So ..... I have a vehicle redg to me, that cannot be sorned, that will show up as unisured on the MID ...... hence the question

Then ring up your local DVLA office and ask them what to do. These things have been thought through. I have a bike in pieces in my garage too, my trackbike and whilst it has a V5C it has no MOT, no tax (SORNed) and no insurance, nor will it ever have any of those.

saaby93 said:

SOMEONE TELL ME THIS HASNT COME IN YET
So what happens to everyone that has a taxed project in their back yard which they insure for the few days they want to take it out on the road?
Are they about to get a letter saying their P&J is not insured (which they already know) and so a NIP is due (which they dont)?

Read the fking .pdf before going off on a "oh woe is me" rant.

Once again, you've gone for the absolute minority issue and decided that because a general leaflet doesn't cover the minutiae of the detail, then it's flawed. Your local DVLA office will have an answer for this.

And it's not a NIP its a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN)

Edited by R1 Loon on Thursday 2nd December 22:53

[saaby93]

R1 Loon said:

Your local DVLA office will have an answer for this.

Yes theyre very understanding of poor customers who queue up at their doors with tales of woe of DVLA and how the same happens with paperwork they try to send too.

Well thought out

[R1 Loon]

saaby93 said:

R1 Loon said:

Your local DVLA office will have an answer for this.

Yes theyre very understanding of poor customers who queue up at their doors with tales of woe of DVLA and how the same happens with paperwork they try to send too.

Well thought out

Oh yes, they all have the shutters up, never deal with anyone and are all staffed by the fall out from the local chav borstal,in fact I read in The Daily Mail, that everyone who goes to one of these offices in person either dies from hypothermia, starvation or heatstroke.

You are a tedious individual, there will always be tales of bad service in any line of business, but these tend to be the exception rather than the norm.

• plonk*

[saaby93]

R1 Loon said:

Oh yes, they all have the shutters up, never deal with anyone and are all staffed by the fall out from the local chav borstal,in fact I read in The Daily Mail, that everyone who goes to one of these offices in person either dies from hypothermia, starvation or heatstroke.

Maybe yours are like that but they try to be very helpful over here, making sure you and they take copies of everything in case it will get lost.

Back to OP - has this been announced or is it a scare?

[Nigel Worc's]

R1 Loon said:

Nigel Worc's said:

I think you missunderstand my particular question, although you presume correctly that I'm anti rules for rules sake on motorised vehicle owners.

I have a motorcycle, it was first redg in 1980, it was last taxed in 1986, when I bought this bike a couple of years ago (I was actually it's first owner too, which is why I wanted it, but that's another story), I redgistered it to myself (of course), and promptly took it apart to rebuild it .... it's only been a couple of years, so it's still in pieces ...... I contacted dvla to "sorn" it as soon as I recieved the V5C.

Dvla informed me it couldn't be sorned, as it hadn't been taxed since 1999 or 2000 (something like that), so until I tax it, it wont need sorning, and in fact, cannot be sorned.

So ..... I have a vehicle redg to me, that cannot be sorned, that will show up as unisured on the MID ...... hence the question

Then ring up your local DVLA office and ask them what to do. These things have been thought through. I have a bike in pieces in my garage too, my trackbike and whilst it has a V5C it has no MOT, no tax (SORNed) and no insurance, nor will it ever have any of those.

saaby93 said:

SOMEONE TELL ME THIS HASNT COME IN YET
So what happens to everyone that has a taxed project in their back yard which they insure for the few days they want to take it out on the road?
Are they about to get a letter saying their P&J is not insured (which they already know) and so a NIP is due (which they dont)?

Read the fking .pdf before going off on a "oh woe is me" rant.

Once again, you've gone for the absolute minority issue and decided that because a general leaflet doesn't cover the minutiae of the detail, then it's flawed. Your local DVLA office will have an answer for this.

And it's not a NIP its a Fixed Penalty Notice (FPN)

Edited by R1 Loon on Thursday 2nd December 22:53

Well excuse me for asking lol, I thought that's what this place was for ..... no ?

And it'll be thought through ......ps off lol, none of the crap introduced recently seems to have been thought through, cause as much crap as you can for everyday people, make it difficult to understand, then fine them for not adhering to it, when they weren't doing anything wrong in the first place......meanwhile...scrotes please carry on as normal !

[R1 Loon]

Nigel Worc's said:

Well excuse me for asking lol, I thought that's what this place was for ..... no ?

And it'll be thought through ......ps off lol, none of the crap introduced recently seems to have been thought through, cause as much crap as you can for everyday people, make it difficult to understand, then fine them for not adhering to it, when they weren't doing anything wrong in the first place......meanwhile...scrotes please carry on as normal !

I've not had a pop at you.

IME the Local DVLA office have been excellent and dealt with things very effectively.

All you need to do is declare it SORN, that can be done online (link provided previously), or downloading it here and sending it in the post, or going to your local DVLA office.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_...

It's hardly rocket science and looks like a piece of piss to me. BTW, I'd appreciate not being told to "ps off" unless you feel that's an appropriate way of conducting yourself. I have done little more than post facts, which may contradict your opinions, but that doesn't warrant that kind of response.

I have to say that, whilst this forum can be helpful, it can also give out a load of duff info.

[Nigel Worc's]

R1 Loon said:

Nigel Worc's said:

Well excuse me for asking lol, I thought that's what this place was for ..... no ?

And it'll be thought through ......ps off lol, none of the crap introduced recently seems to have been thought through, cause as much crap as you can for everyday people, make it difficult to understand, then fine them for not adhering to it, when they weren't doing anything wrong in the first place......meanwhile...scrotes please carry on as normal !

I've not had a pop at you.

IME the Local DVLA office have been excellent and dealt with things very effectively.

All you need to do is declare it SORN, that can be done online (link provided previously), or downloading it here and sending it in the post, or going to your local DVLA office.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_...

It's hardly rocket science and looks like a piece of piss to me. BTW, I'd appreciate not being told to "ps off" unless you feel that's an appropriate way of conducting yourself. I have done little more than post facts, which may contradict your opinions, but that doesn't warrant that kind of response.

I have to say that, whilst this forum can be helpful, it can also give out a load of duff info.

I thought you had a pop at me for asking ..... no ?

You're still missing my question here.

My bike CANNOT be declared sorn, so dvla told me when I asked, it will however show up as uninsured on the mid.

They may not even notice me (like they're going to miss the chance of a quick hundred squid), but as you quite rightly point out ..... I'm sure they've thought if this ....... I know a few people who will be in this position.

[saaby93]

Theyve missed the point that a lot of people prefer to keep their cars taxed rather than sorning/unsorning every few weeks or days.

I still havent found out .. is this happening or is it just BIBA putting this out?
I guess theyd love everyone to have 365 day insurance when they don't need it

[Nigel Worc's]

saaby93 said:

Theyve missed the point that a lot of people prefer to keep their cars taxed rather than sorning/unsorning every few weeks or days.

I still havent found out .. is this happening or is it just BIBA putting this out?
I guess theyd love everyone to have 365 day insurance when they don't need it

Especially those on free "historic" tax

[R1 Loon]

Nigel Worc's said:

I thought you had a pop at me for asking ..... no ?

You're still missing my question here.

My bike CANNOT be declared sorn, so dvla told me when I asked, it will however show up as uninsured on the mid.

They may not even notice me (like they're going to miss the chance of a quick hundred squid), but as you quite rightly point out ..... I'm sure they've thought if this ....... I know a few people who will be in this position.

Nope, I think we both got our wires crossed, I got bored of the saaby93 constant sensationalism of everything around insurance, or rules.

They will accept your SORN, although they struggled previously, as the system couldn't cope. Undoubtedly there will be teething problems, as with most things in life. I'd trying online first, if no joy send it in via (registered) post to DVLA along with a covering letter, if nothing comes back then ring your local DVLA office.

Chances are you'll get a letter to start with and replying to that explaining whta you've tried to do will resolve it.

Bikers are going to find this trickier than car owners, I have quite a collection, some insured, some not, but I understand this stuff, so am always on top of it.

Saaby - yes, it's coming in, it starts next year. Do you have an uninsured, taxed car, or are you on a personal crusade again?

[Nigel Worc's]

R1 Loon

Unless things have changed since I bought the bike (which I doubt, as dvla have not contacted me/ tried to fine me), you CANNOT sorn a vehicle that hasn't been taxed since 1999 or 2000 ( I cannot remember which they quoted).

Once I've rebuilt the bike .... and it is taxed, it will "enter" the system, and will then require sorning if I don't wish to tax it at any time, until then, as far as sorn is concerned, it's outside the system.

It is however redgistered, and shows up as unisured on the mid

Sorn is done by dvla, this latest "fine everyone" seems, from the leaflet, to be initiated by another bunch, and then passed to dvla for enforcement.

[Getragdogleg]

Wow, this topic is a can of worms !

I have an old car with MOT and (free) tax but no insurance, it is currently in the garage for the winter where it will stay until spring.

The insurance is six months during summer.
The tax is a year from when I insure it each year. (no point getting 6 months free tax, i might use it longer and insure it longer if the weather stays nice)
It is never SORN under current rules.


What hoops do I have to jump through regarding my taxed, Mot'd but not insured car when the insurances runs out ?