Bl**dy lower ball joint now!!!... what next...

[TVR Beaver]

They say problems come in 3’s… well I hope this is the last one!!
Having got new top ball joints coz the old covers had split… and the performance with the new bushes……
I’ve just realized that when you put it all back together with the shocks fitted and everything hanging, that the lower ball joint is being loaded… I can only get about 3mm of movement in the adjuster slots to position the top ball joint.. it won’t go back any further…
Now I’m not sure it has to go back much further as I know they clamp up towards to front… But I just can’t believe that the lower ball joint has reached its maximum position and is now contacting the side (or may be even twisting the thing in some way)..
What I don’t want to happen is for the car to go over a dip in the road and the wheels to leave the ground, resulting in the lot coming hammering down and being stopped by the ball joint unit… I suppose it could snap off!!... It’s not far out and jacking the arm up only a few mm get’s you full adjustment so it must be just short of the shocker stop…. But what do you think….

Option 1 Re-fit and forget?
Option 2 fit two spacer washers to the outer 2 holes to give it a bit more clearance…. It would need about 1.5 / 2mm washers!
Option 3 Get some other type of ball joints?
Option 4 Sell the car

It’s amazing what you find when you start to look… But why did TVR design the arms using these units so close to their extremes… It would not of taken much to straighten them up more into a central position??

Here’s a few pic’s….

This is how it’s chewed up the plastic gator retainer…




And this is the impact mark on the housing once the taper is pulled back fully the other way



Has anyone had the same issue..

[Barkychoc]

There have been one or two issues in various threads that have had the same issues as you - only its failed while driving

Use TVR spec lower ball joints as they actually chose manufacturer carefully avoiding that pinching that you've found.

[TVR Beaver]

Cheers Chris... They must have been like that when I fitted them about 5K miles ago.. but didn't notice it as a problem then (unless the old rubber suspention bushes just held the shock up a tad??)... anyway.. will have a look tomorrow... I actualy don't think it's bad enough to snap but who knows.. at least I've found them now!!... will get some new / better ones... cheers

[SILICONE KID]

What do you mean TVR spec? there not made by TVR.When i had my four wheel alignment done he mentioned that the ball joints are now a slightly different design yet they are still the correct ones.They were never made for TVR`s in the first place .He managed to get the alignment correct by removing the large shim and fitting two thinner shims ,one each side.Job done !

[TVR Beaver]

SILICONE KID said:

What do you mean TVR spec? there not made by TVR.When i had my four wheel alignment done he mentioned that the ball joints are now a slightly different design yet they are still the correct ones.They were never made for TVR`s in the first place .He managed to get the alignment correct by removing the large shim and fitting two thinner shims ,one each side.Job done !

What?.. thats the top ball joint your on about... and may be the head size being bigger so not going back enough.... I asked the same question on here a few weeks ago and was told it was not good to fit the two smaller ones as it makes the stearing a bit more twitchy... Your changing the castor angle I think?

Anyways... back to the bottom ball joint... Two schools of thought... Raceing green and Rechtec are selling special ones at special prices.. £55 each with VAT but designed to overcome this issue... The rest are selling ones around the £35 mark that are the normal ones (but one would hope usable on a TVR)... The latter includes 'Power' so you'd think they'd know about the issue??

[haircutmike]

Nicked from the forum a year or two ago as there were various failures!

Option 4; Buy a Porsche?

[Biggles101]

TVR Beaver, Watching your thread with Eagle eyes Now I understand where you're coming from saying that my bottom ball joints could open up a can of worms.! Keep me posted on your findings and I'll buy you a few beers

[shpub]

The problem is known about and the guys on the forum have been excellent about warning people about it. The problem has been caused by parts that are not the same spec in terms of articulation as the originals that TVR used. Not a problem for the original cars but is one for TVRs.

The term "TVR spec" really refers to the amount of articulation.

One thing that isn't clear is whether the problem is caused by counterfeit parts that have got into the supply chain or by a manufacturer changing the spec. The best recommendation is to go to a TVR supplier that knows about the problem.

I would keep the ones you have so that you can compare them with the replacements and satisfy your own mind that they are OK.

[TVR Beaver]

shpub said:

The problem is known about and the guys on the forum have been excellent about warning people about it. The problem has been caused by parts that are not the same spec in terms of articulation as the originals that TVR used. Not a problem for the original cars but is one for TVRs.

The term "TVR spec" really refers to the amount of articulation.

One thing that isn't clear is whether the problem is caused by counterfeit parts that have got into the supply chain or by a manufacturer changing the spec. The best recommendation is to go to a TVR supplier that knows about the problem.

I would keep the ones you have so that you can compare them with the replacements and satisfy your own mind that they are OK.

Think you've got it there... the new ones will be easy to test... just fit them, let the suspension fall fully and see if you get movement to adjust the top ball joint without feeling and resistance... if you can move the full adjustment slot then they will be okay...
.
The Porsche may be an option if I encounter any more problems (I'm just warning to car here )

[CHGRIFF]

Not that familiar with the alternative parts, but from the pics the problem ball joint housing is produced from a casting or forging having increased wall thickness limiting movement compared to the pressed steel stock part.
Is this the primary difference and cause of this problem, or are they all like that?

[TVR Beaver]

CHGRIFF said:

Not that familiar with the alternative parts, but from the pics the problem ball joint housing is produced from a casting or forging having increased wall thickness limiting movement compared to the pressed steel stock part.
Is this the primary difference and cause of this problem, or are they all like that?

You get all types.. yes it's a forging and the ball is inserted from the underside... TBH I don't think there is a hope in hell of it pulling thru or even snapping as it's a very good unit.. but will replace them anyway... I did look at one today at the local auto shop.. it was more like the pressed steel and welded type... and it could move even less than mine.. so no wonder they come apart.....
If mine had 1 degree more it would be fine... I think some of them stop well short and this is how they pull out or come open... I'm not keen on the pressed ones.. they look very cheap.. II don't think these are the OE ones... I'm sure they would be forgings also...
Remember what these ball joints are designed for... Lada.. so I'm sure you can get all sorts of after market units

this is the angle mine will go to:-

[Barkychoc]

The clues are in that pic - look at the shape of the shafts - as far as the original application is concerned these are the same part.

Edited by Barkychoc on Wednesday 29th December 19:15

[TVR Beaver]

So are we saying the LHS one is OE TVR??..

[TVR Beaver]

Quinny said:

Boy, am I glad I did all this last year


But rest assured, I'm thinking about you, stuck out there in that freezing garage, struggling to get stuff back together



Really I am



Now, where did I leave that bottle of Peroni???

Ahh, there it is

Edited by Quinny on Wednesday 29th December 23:49

Bog Off !!... I will get it back together... I will !!! (what dates Chatsworth??)

[TVR Beaver]

Good point.. This year I hope!... anyone recomend a supplier that supplies the correct units??

BTW... I did all this last year also... just doing it again this year for something to do

Edited by TVR Beaver on Thursday 30th December 23:02

[haircutmike]

TVR Beaver said:

Good point.. This year I hope!... anyone recomend a supplier that supplies the correct units??

BTW... I did all this last year also... just doing it again this year for something to do

Edited by TVR Beaver on Thursday 30th December 23:02

A bit like my steering rack about to come out for the 5th time.....

[TVR Beaver]

tough luck sir... not been there (yet!!)...

[Barkychoc]

TVR Beaver said:

So are we saying the LHS one is OE TVR??..

No but the one they chose worked in the TVR application - other versions of the same part are subtly different as per the pic.

Caveat Emptor and all that but I think you need balljoints made by Lemforder to match the tapered originals.

The trouble is that even if one particular manufacturers part fits they could change it subtly (or change 3rd party supplier), still be within the original part spec but create problems for TVR's.

It's a minefield

[BliarOut]

haircutmike said:

TVR Beaver said:

Good point.. This year I hope!... anyone recomend a supplier that supplies the correct units??

BTW... I did all this last year also... just doing it again this year for something to do

Edited by TVR Beaver on Thursday 30th December 23:02

A bit like my steering rack about to come out for the 5th time.....

Another rebuild? Who have you been using?

[TVR Beaver]

Barkychoc said:

TVR Beaver said:

So are we saying the LHS one is OE TVR??..

No but the one they chose worked in the TVR application - other versions of the same part are subtly different as per the pic.

Caveat Emptor and all that but I think you need balljoints made by Lemforder to match the tapered originals.

The trouble is that even if one particular manufacturers part fits they could change it subtly (or change 3rd party supplier), still be within the original part spec but create problems for TVR's.

It's a minefield

I know... I've looked at 3 others so far.. and all have less movement that mine!.... As mine is just hitting at the last few mm's I may re-fit them... coz I've not found any better... I'm sure they won't snap or anything