RE: Driven: McLaren MP4-12C

RE: Driven: McLaren MP4-12C

Author
Discussion

TonyHetherington

32,091 posts

249 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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I think the start had a big impact on the result there smile

Fittster

20,120 posts

212 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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The comparison most people are making is between the MP4-12C and the Ferrari 458. When can we expect a fresh offering from Lamborghini in this sector?


Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Fittster said:
The comparison most people are making is between the MP4-12C and the Ferrari 458. When can we expect a fresh offering from Lamborghini in this sector?
Not sone enough for Lamborghini as I can see Gallardo sales drying up very quickly on the back of this. Their car is nearly eight years old now and I think a replacement is at least a year away

Harry Monk

5,187 posts

236 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Streetrod said:
Not sone enough for Lamborghini as I can see Gallardo sales drying up very quickly on the back of this. Their car is nearly eight years old now and I think a replacement is at least a year away
Your points are very valid but I'm interested in the way that the Audi R8 GT is perceived as a very modern car whereas a Gallardo Superleggera is constantly referred to as some sort of throwback when they are much the same sort of vehicle.

Chris Chilton

15 posts

157 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Nice to be here Streetrod. It’s really good to see people get so fired up about this car, even if they’re not all agreeing.

What the R8 does so well is flatter the driver and give them the confidence to explore the handling and performance, and the 12C does the same trick. I'd suggest that the way the Gallardo is set up, it doesn't manage that. You have to be much handier to drive a Gallardo on the limit than an R8, and going much faster too, making it less fun on the road.

As you suggest, and as I say in the mag article, it’s like an R8 tweaked up to 11, though whether McLaren will be delighted with the comparison is questionable!

But having said that a novice could have fun in it, just look at button’s face. He wasn’t just going through the motions for the cameras, you could tell that he genuinely loved throwing the thing around. There are plenty of electronics at work on the 12C too though (brake steer for instance) but they’re so subtle in action that the only result is you feel like more of a hero. And who wouldn’t want that?

That vid is interesting. Wonder who it was? The 12C certainly jumped the start but you can’t argue that it grows the gap. McLaren told me that they’d had a 458 down at the Portimao circuit before I got there and dragged it against the 458 along the main straight. They said the 12C was something like 5 car lengths quicker by the end!

British Beef

2,192 posts

164 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Streetrod said:
Here you guys what appears to be the first Drag race between the McLaren, the 458 and the Porsch Turbo.

HOW FAST IS THE MACCAyikes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXP71C59IBs
The Ferrari and Porsche drivers have similar reaction times to my wife at the wheel, not what you want in a drag race!!

CraigyMc

16,332 posts

235 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Harry Monk said:
Your points are very valid but I'm interested in the way that the Audi R8 GT is perceived as a very modern car whereas a Gallardo Superleggera is constantly referred to as some sort of throwback when they are much the same sort of vehicle.
Not just similar - the chassis for both are made in the same factory (Audi, Neckarsulm).

A guy at the place I'm working in swears blind the R8 is totally different than the Gallardo... <sigh>

C

E30M3SE

8,465 posts

195 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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British Beef said:
The Ferrari and Porsche drivers have similar reaction times to my wife at the wheel, not what you want in a drag race!!
rofl at the comment under the clip, "That Ferrari driver has the reactions of a darted sloth."

Nice bit of McLaren properganda.

Edited by E30M3SE on Tuesday 15th February 16:40

Goodfella 555

199 posts

167 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Massive shame the styling at the front doesn't match the car's performance, i'm concerned as to what impact this would have on the image and as a really big fan of McLaren it pains me to say this isn't on my wish list. I would much rather arrive at the casino in Monaco in a 458 or a Gallardo because i would prefer the reckless rogue character i would portray rather than the geeky director of an IT firm look... I do wish McLaren the very best of luck, fingers firmly crossed it won't be a flop i think the Chinese will probably like the styling more than us europeans and the americans so it should have a good future. That is unless Lambo release a new Gallardo that looks and goes like a minature Reventon, then our friends in Woking will be in big trouble...

sharpfocus

13,812 posts

190 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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K321 said:
i think this car will be a flop in the same vein as honda nsx

the car looks dated, i saw a prototype a few months ago in a mcdonalds car park and when i saw it i thought it looked like a gallardo kit car.


the back end to me looks particularly awful, and plasticky

globally i think this car will be a sales disaster, why would someone in usa,/china/russiapick this car over a 458/997/lp 700/ audi R8
Bloody MR2s.

Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Chris Chilton said:
Nice to be here Streetrod. It’s really good to see people get so fired up about this car, even if they’re not all agreeing.

What the R8 does so well is flatter the driver and give them the confidence to explore the handling and performance, and the 12C does the same trick. I'd suggest that the way the Gallardo is set up, it doesn't manage that. You have to be much handier to drive a Gallardo on the limit than an R8, and going much faster too, making it less fun on the road.

As you suggest, and as I say in the mag article, it’s like an R8 tweaked up to 11, though whether McLaren will be delighted with the comparison is questionable!

But having said that a novice could have fun in it, just look at button’s face. He wasn’t just going through the motions for the cameras, you could tell that he genuinely loved throwing the thing around. There are plenty of electronics at work on the 12C too though (brake steer for instance) but they’re so subtle in action that the only result is you feel like more of a hero. And who wouldn’t want that?

That vid is interesting. Wonder who it was? The 12C certainly jumped the start but you can’t argue that it grows the gap. McLaren told me that they’d had a 458 down at the Portimao circuit before I got there and dragged it against the 458 along the main straight. They said the 12C was something like 5 car lengths quicker by the end!
So when can we expect the group tests in "Car" then? You can bet that it will be poured over with the intent of a crack CSI squad on this site and all you journo types will be accused of being biased whatever the result. But don’t worry that is the joy of PistonHeads, we love a good fight! biggrinthumbup

Chris Chilton

15 posts

157 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Biased/can't drive/don't know what they're talking about/my TVR is way better: you guys are a tough crowd! But only because you're passionate.

No 12C group tests in this issue of Car I'm afraid - or any of the other mags this week/month. Ferrari locked down the press fleet just to make sure, and time at the launch was so limited.

Rest assured we'll deliver it as soon as we can physically squeeze another car out of McLaren.
That being the case, what would be your ideal group test lineup?

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Chris Chilton said:
what would be your ideal group test lineup?
realistically, I would suggest:

Audi R8
Ferrari 458
Porsche 911 GT2 RS
Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4

and I guess the Noble M600 for giggles

FishFace

3,790 posts

207 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Chris Chilton said:
Ferrari locked down the press fleet just to make sure, and time at the launch was so limited.
What a set of wkers. Hope everyone thinks the McLaren is 2 x as good.

ZeroH

2,904 posts

188 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Chris, group test pls of:

GT2RS v 458 v Mclaren v R8 GT or 570SV v GT-R

GT2RS would be the straight line & track time benchmark, 458 the nearest competitor, R8 GT/570SV as the ultimate versions of fantastic cars, and the GT-R to see how far its giant killing abilities go.

And if the macca gets through that lot, line it up against the 599GT0 and new LP700 to see if there is any need to spend a penny more than the £170k odd that Mclaren charges to get the ultimate sports car.

ZeroH

2,904 posts

188 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Oh and if you need a hand to help you out with my aforementioned group test, you know where to contact me smile

Streetrod

6,468 posts

205 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
quotequote all
Chris Chilton said:
Biased/can't drive/don't know what they're talking about/my TVR is way better: you guys are a tough crowd! But only because you're passionate.

No 12C group tests in this issue of Car I'm afraid - or any of the other mags this week/month. Ferrari locked down the press fleet just to make sure, and time at the launch was so limited.

Rest assured we'll deliver it as soon as we can physically squeeze another car out of McLaren.
That being the case, what would be your ideal group test lineup?
Now your asking. Well it has to be a 458 (minus the Ferrari goon squad looking over you shoulder), Lamborghini LP 570-4 Superleggera, Porsche GT2 RS, and a Noble M600 would be an interesting addition, Oh and an Lexus LFA.

PS I forgot the R8 GT. I am also available most days at short notice if you need a hand if you know what I mean biggrin


Edited by Streetrod on Tuesday 15th February 17:24

Harry Monk

5,187 posts

236 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
quotequote all
Goodfella 555 said:
I would much rather arrive at the casino in Monaco in a 458 or a Gallardo because i would prefer the reckless rogue character i would portray rather than the geeky director of an IT firm look...
Once again, McLaren has built a sports car and not a posing pouch.

Obiwonkeyblokey

5,399 posts

239 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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K321 said:
Noel, i havent worked at Honda, but they did fall short of their planned production, how many were they selling in the UK ? i guess in their 10's at the most, and probably most were sold as Acura's in USA. Mclaren doesnt have much brand awareness in the USA, china/Russia and Far East - singapore/HK etc, where most of the cars of this ilk are being bought currently
12 in 1996 actually !

wink

I sold 4 of them. ( and blew another one up!)

As for the Mclaren, I think its fantastic and would be my choice in that segment. In exactly the same way that if I ahd the money in the 90s I would have taken an NSX over a 911 or 348.

each to their own though.

Goodfella 555

199 posts

167 months

Tuesday 15th February 2011
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Harry Monk said:
Once again, McLaren has built a sports car and not a posing pouch.
I know i'll probably get banned from this website for posting this comment, but sports cars Audi R8 upwards; are you really going to use the performance to its limit that often that you'll really notice the difference? In the real world is the performance of this McLaren noticably different to say an R8? Unless you do laps of Nurburgring everyday the answer has to be no, otherwise you'd be banned from driving or dead. So with this in mind with sports cars, image has to be more important than whether or not it'll do 60 in 0.5 second quicker than its rivals or it'll go round the top gear track 1.5 seconds (in the hands of an experienced racing driver) quicker. Sorry to be a bore but my S2k will do over 70 in second gear and over 95 in third (on the track of coursesmile) and you get to a point where you think does it really matter that a Z4M is slightly quicker or a Boxster slightly slower? I just think i don't want to look like a swinger or a manager of an estate agency...