NHS frontline job losses

[hornetrider]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/17/nhs-...

Are you confident the NHS reform has been properly thought through? I must admit I was alarmed when they announced the scale of the changes so soon after coming in to office.

[JagLover]

hornetrider said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/17/nhs-...

Are you confident the NHS reform has been properly thought through? I must admit I was alarmed when they announced the scale of the changes so soon after coming in to office.

That has more to do with budgetary constraints than the reforms.

After the years of plenty a very small rise in real terms feels like a cut to the NHS.

[Tsippy]

This might not be a popular suggestion, but maybe there are too many nurses and their numbers are not used effectively or efficiently, therefore the hospitals are simply cutting off the excess now that their budget is tightening?

Again just a suggestion as I have no experience of working within an NHS environment, however my time within public sector environments suggests a lot of wastage of human resources.

[TrevorH]

Tsippy said:

This might not be a popular suggestion, but maybe there are too many nurses and their numbers are not used effectively or efficiently, therefore the hospitals are simply cutting off the excess now that their budget is tightening?

Again just a suggestion as I have no experience of working within an NHS environment, however my time within public sector environments suggests a lot of wastage of human resources.

Maybe for some, but I seriously doubt it. In the 7 years I've known my wife, who's a nurse, every ward she's worked on seems to have been down at least one trained nurse on what would seem to be a sensible staffing level. They're often run-ragged and many of the older nurses can't wait to get out.

[mrmaggit]

TrevorH said:

Tsippy said:

This might not be a popular suggestion, but maybe there are too many nurses and their numbers are not used effectively or efficiently, therefore the hospitals are simply cutting off the excess now that their budget is tightening?

Again just a suggestion as I have no experience of working within an NHS environment, however my time within public sector environments suggests a lot of wastage of human resources.

Maybe for some, but I seriously doubt it. In the 7 years I've known my wife, who's a nurse, every ward she's worked on seems to have been down at least one trained nurse on what would seem to be a sensible staffing level. They're often run-ragged and many of the older nurses can't wait to get out.

This. But don't forget there are at least three levels of management above the wards, and you can bet your bottom dollar there won't be any cuts there. Primary Care Trusts, anyone?

[spaximus]

There has already been a lot of middle management staff gone and with the PCT's going there will be more.
Many of these frontline jobs are going as they are closing wards as minor surgery is being done by the new GP minor injury units. There is a push to get people in and out as quick as they. Many routine operations are now being done by private concerns like one in Mangotsfield in Bristol. Here they do in and out surgery and short stay. The staff are not employed with expensive pension packages and the contratced prices workout much cheaper than the NHS equivalant.

It will always be a political football but these cuts (not the PCT change) was all done by labour who are now trying to use this against the current lot.

[Engineer1]

mrmaggit said:

TrevorH said:

Tsippy said:

This might not be a popular suggestion, but maybe there are too many nurses and their numbers are not used effectively or efficiently, therefore the hospitals are simply cutting off the excess now that their budget is tightening?

Again just a suggestion as I have no experience of working within an NHS environment, however my time within public sector environments suggests a lot of wastage of human resources.

Maybe for some, but I seriously doubt it. In the 7 years I've known my wife, who's a nurse, every ward she's worked on seems to have been down at least one trained nurse on what would seem to be a sensible staffing level. They're often run-ragged and many of the older nurses can't wait to get out.

This. But don't forget there are at least three levels of management above the wards, and you can bet your bottom dollar there won't be any cuts there. Primary Care Trusts, anyone?

I know two special care baby units that are running under the ideal staffing level, one in the Oxford area has been using expensive agency Nurses the other in Birmingham has been relying on overtime (bank) shifts to cover the shortage. My sister works at the Oxford hospital and my wife works at the Birmingham hospital.
The NHS has had hiring freezes, is being restructured, the unit my wife works on is losing staff to another Birmingham Hospital as the ward she works on is possibly being downgraded so the challenging work will go replaced with babysitting in comparison.

[Tsippy]

Engineer1 said:

mrmaggit said:

TrevorH said:

Tsippy said:

This might not be a popular suggestion, but maybe there are too many nurses and their numbers are not used effectively or efficiently, therefore the hospitals are simply cutting off the excess now that their budget is tightening?

Again just a suggestion as I have no experience of working within an NHS environment, however my time within public sector environments suggests a lot of wastage of human resources.

Maybe for some, but I seriously doubt it. In the 7 years I've known my wife, who's a nurse, every ward she's worked on seems to have been down at least one trained nurse on what would seem to be a sensible staffing level. They're often run-ragged and many of the older nurses can't wait to get out.

This. But don't forget there are at least three levels of management above the wards, and you can bet your bottom dollar there won't be any cuts there. Primary Care Trusts, anyone?

I know two special care baby units that are running under the ideal staffing level, one in the Oxford area has been using expensive agency Nurses the other in Birmingham has been relying on overtime (bank) shifts to cover the shortage. My sister works at the Oxford hospital and my wife works at the Birmingham hospital.
The NHS has had hiring freezes, is being restructured, the unit my wife works on is losing staff to another Birmingham Hospital as the ward she works on is possibly being downgraded so the challenging work will go replaced with babysitting in comparison.

I was chatting to a guy last month (teaching him how to skate!) and he mentioned that there were plans to centralise all of the child care hospitals to the big cities and close the smaller facilities.

[Engineer1]

Possibly, Special care baby units are ranked at 3 levels the unit my wife works in is the highest care level (level 3) I believe, and is possibly being down graded to a 2 despite the fact that it runs at 100%+ occupancy and usage, babies are regularly shipped halfway across the country to hospitals with beds irrespective of where the Mother and other family members are.

[ninja-lewis]

Tsippy said:

Engineer1 said:

I know two special care baby units that are running under the ideal staffing level, one in the Oxford area has been using expensive agency Nurses the other in Birmingham has been relying on overtime (bank) shifts to cover the shortage. My sister works at the Oxford hospital and my wife works at the Birmingham hospital.
The NHS has had hiring freezes, is being restructured, the unit my wife works on is losing staff to another Birmingham Hospital as the ward she works on is possibly being downgraded so the challenging work will go replaced with babysitting in comparison.

I was chatting to a guy last month (teaching him how to skate!) and he mentioned that there were plans to centralise all of the child care hospitals to the big cities and close the smaller facilities.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12484735

[dbdb]

Tsippy said:

I was chatting to a guy last month (teaching him how to skate!) and he mentioned that there were plans to centralise all of the child care hospitals to the big cities and close the smaller facilities.

Sadly I know from experience that some hospitals are so truly abysmal they are simply not fit for purpose.
Two of the three hospitals which treated my father were so poor in every way they seemed to me entirely beyond redemption, and to have no interest in improving in any event.
It is difficult to put into words how incompetent my father's treatment was and difficult to describe the degree of disinterest in him shown by staff of all levels both as an individual and as a patient.

Some hospitals are centres of excellence with staff who care whether you live or die and have the knowledge to act.
My father found such a hospital too late and died as a consequence after a year had been wasted. There are things to celebrate within the NHS, but some entire hospitals are so poor frankly they should be shut, the good staff retained and transferred to a better unit and what is left, jettisoned.

[neenaw]

From speaking regularly to Nurses and Midwives at various hospitals in London, they all tell us the same thing about how they are one or two staff down each day. It's not out of the ordinary to go into an A+E on a night and find a couple of regular staff and the number being made up by agency staff who, so I'm told, cost a damn sight more than the full time staff to employ.

One thing that there never seems to be a shortage of, at least not in A+E, is the managers. I'm not talking about clinical staff like consultants but things like bed managers who are usually ex-clinical staff who've gone into management for more money and an easier life. Their job basically entails shifting people about so they can meet whatever daft targets they have.

I know which one's I think should be going!

[Jasandjules]

As others have said, far too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Remove some chiefs to save money.

[grumbledoak]

Jasandjules said:

As others have said, far too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Labour rammed the NHS with 'managers' to rig the unemployment statistics.

Kicking anyone in a st brown suit out of the nearest door or window would probably help massively.

[shed driver]

neenaw said:

One thing that there never seems to be a shortage of, at least not in A+E, is the managers. I'm not talking about clinical staff like consultants but things like bed managers who are usually ex-clinical staff who've gone into management for more money and an easier life. Their job basically entails shifting people about so they can meet whatever daft targets they have.

I know which one's I think should be going!

Well, I was a bed manager for 8 years, possibly the most challenging job I've had in over 25 years of nursing. I work in a busy district general hospital with over 500 acute beds, an excess of 100,000 A&E attendances each year (rising at about 4-5% pa) and one of the most deprived populations in the region - many of whom have significant health problems.

With bed-occupancy running in excess of 98% it's a huge challenge to juggle A&E admissions, elective admissions on the 18 week target, the two week cancer rule, GP admissions and unexpected clinic admissions. Then add in a ward closure due to Noro-virus and a few staffing problems. Why not ask to shadow a bed manager for a shift, see how the 150 elective patients are shoehorned into 30 beds, how you prioritise and make life changing decisions - the cancer patient who needs palliative surgery to enable him to be able to have a few more weeks at home, or the self employed person who has restructured all his work so he can have a hernia repair.

It's not easy, and I for one am glad I'm out of it.

SD

[bga]

grumbledoak said:

Jasandjules said:

As others have said, far too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Labour rammed the NHS with 'managers' to rig the unemployment statistics.

People at that level aren't dole queue fodder. The explosion in management was due to the public baying for increased accountability for every decision. The admin overhead to achieve this (and to administer the work around a load of arbitrary targets) needed bums on seats in glorified clerical positions.
The result is the same - far too many people not doing useful.

[JagLover]

bga said:

People at that level aren't dole queue fodder. The explosion in management was due to the public baying for increased accountability for every decision. The admin overhead to achieve this (and to administer the work around a load of arbitrary targets) needed bums on seats in glorified clerical positions.
The result is the same - far too many people not doing useful.

Well increased central accountability at any rate. Many of those managers are busily employed ensuring, and reporting, compliance with a multitude of central government targets.