RE: Alfa Romeo Reveals 4C Concept

[otolith]

TonyHetherington said:

Jonara said:

(ii) the carbon fibre tub making it to the production version.

that will have a very big impact on the 850kg kerb weight.

From the description of the architecture on the Alfa website, it doesn't look to me as if it actually has a "carbon tub" - I don't think it is using the X-Bow's tub at all, I think it's aluminium with carbon body panels.

[Mr Whippy]

zakelwe said:

For the billionth time it is not an automatic.

It changes gear on it's own.

Automatically some might say.

[jamieboy]

otolith said:

From the description of the architecture on the Alfa website, it doesn't look to me as if it actually has a "carbon tub" - I don't think it is using the X-Bow's tub at all, I think it's aluminium with carbon body panels.

That's certainly what the Autocar article reckoned.

Autocar said:

The firm says the “chassis supports a body crafted completely from carbon” but stops short of saying that the tub itself is made from the ultra-expensive material. This would appear to point towards a steel spaceframe construction, with aluminium used for sub-frames at either end and carbonfibre (or carbonfibre-reinforced plastic) panels, instead of the much-rumoured use of the KTM X-Bow’s expensive carbonfibre tub

[kambites]

jamieboy said:

otolith said:

From the description of the architecture on the Alfa website, it doesn't look to me as if it actually has a "carbon tub" - I don't think it is using the X-Bow's tub at all, I think it's aluminium with carbon body panels.

That's certainly what the Autocar article reckoned.

Autocar said:

The firm says the “chassis supports a body crafted completely from carbon” but stops short of saying that the tub itself is made from the ultra-expensive material. This would appear to point towards a steel spaceframe construction, with aluminium used for sub-frames at either end and carbonfibre (or carbonfibre-reinforced plastic) panels, instead of the much-rumoured use of the KTM X-Bow’s expensive carbonfibre tub

I think that sounds more likely. It would certainly make the targeted price more realistic. It makes the targeted weight look even harder to achieve, though.

[CrisW]

Mr Whippy said:

zakelwe said:

For the billionth time it is not an automatic.

It changes gear on it's own.

Automatically some might say.

So if I didn't touch the paddles it would change gear?

To my mind if it changes gear by its own choice its an auto if I have to pull a level/paddle otherwise it stays in gear then its not an auto.

[otolith]

kambites said:

I think that sounds more likely. It would certainly make the targeted price more realistic. It makes the targeted weight look even harder to achieve, though.

It's only the weight of a late model aluminium and fibreglass S2 Elise, and a fair bit heavier than an early S2 - doesn't look all that ambitious?

[shalmaneser]

CrisW said:

So if I didn't touch the paddles it would change gear?

To my mind if it changes gear by its own choice its an auto if I have to pull a level/paddle otherwise it stays in gear then its not an auto.

like every other paddle box (save for race only sequential boxes) If there isn't and auto mode it will eat my hat.

[stephen300o]

The clutch and gearbox are exactly the same as a three pedal car, it's just that the ratio changes and clutch are automated, there is no power loss due to a torque convertor.

[jamieboy]

stephen300o said:

The clutch and gearbox are exactly the same as a three pedal car

Silly question - which three-pedal cars have dual-clutch gearboxes?

[kambites]

otolith said:

It's only the weight of a late model aluminium and fibreglass S2 Elise, and a fair bit heavier than an early S2 - doesn't look all that ambitious?

Well firstly everyone seems to be assuming that it's going to have a full alfa-esque interior which will weigh a fair bit. Secondly that engine is a damned slight heavier than a K-series or even the 1.8 N/A version of the Toyota lump and however light that gearbox is I'd be quite surprised if it's lighter than a conventional H-pattern box. Thirdly in practice this thing is going to get N-cap tested and I suspect the buyers will care about the results...

If it's a steel space-frame, I doubt the body is CF for weight as such, I guess they'll be semi stressed for rigidity in which case I wouldn't expect any weight savings there (after all the Elise clams weigh less than 50kg combined).


How do Alfa weigh their cars? Dry? Wet? DIN?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 3rd March 20:05

[stephen300o]

jamieboy said:

stephen300o said:

The clutch and gearbox are exactly the same as a three pedal car

Silly question - which three-pedal cars have dual-clutch gearboxes?

Won't work with a tri-pedal, but it's still the same friction material and cogs rather than the massively heavy slushboxes of old with torque converters and odd planetary gears.
It's comes down to how much you enjoy heel & toe. It's can be quite rewarding but I really wouldn't miss it that much.

[James Dean]

When I first read this article tuesday I wasn't sure what I thought about it. So I gave it a couple of days and it has really been growing on me. I could for sure imagine myself in it a couple of years down the line, with a nice girl beside me, her in the passenger seat of course!

Though I can't see the reason why Alfa Romeo chose to unveil it in a matte paint instead of 'alfa red' or '8c red' or just any other gloss/metallic color?

On the talk of using the old Busso-engine, the last incarnation was actually Euro4-compliant, but I would imagine it would be very hard to make it Euro5-compliant? Anybody can enlighten me please?

Unfortunately we have to face the realities of todays ecologically minded world and accept a 4-pot with a turbo strapped on, which I'm sure can be made to sound nice with another exhaust, intake and even exhaust manifold! Yes, this cries for the N/A 3.2 Busso V6, but I won't spend my energy on something I can't change.

The transmission will probably not be that bad, but with the looks and hopefully good driving dynamics, and the rest of the things I've mentioned being changed. I won't care at all. A new first for me with those DSG's.

The weight, 850 kg? Not so sure. For me, it just have to be less than 1250 kg and as close to 1000 kg as possible, that will do it! Especially if they make it handle good.

I'm no fan of the use of carbon fibre on the exterior, in fact on any car, race cars/trackday specials aside, for me it cheapens the look. Those rear lights should be toned down in their design, and look closer to those on the Mito, which they probably will.
For me it would be a nice dark deep charcoal, with the diffuser and those carbonfibre elements in satin black. And with the v-grille like on the Mito or Guilietta, though I know those differ a little bit from each other.
On top of that, a lovely red leather interior, and I'm a happy bunny.

Its also fantastic how little the teledial wheels have develop since they started appearing in their current incarnation on the 156/Spider 916-generation, 16 years ago. They're such a fantastic design, though they should rather be the normal silver, than the bling it is on the pictures.

Sorry for eventual speeling misstakes and grandma as I'm quite tired.

But definately looking forward to it!

Edited by James Dean on Thursday 3rd March 22:50

[Harry Monk]

Book early to ensure disappointment.

It's the Alfa way.

[GTRene]

latest news I've read...250hp from a 1.7 TBi??

and 2012 production...thats next year.







ofcorse a little bit less detailed then the showcar, but ut looks good.

[Mr Whippy]

CrisW said:

So if I didn't touch the paddles it would change gear?

To my mind if it changes gear by its own choice its an auto if I have to pull a level/paddle otherwise it stays in gear then its not an auto.

All automatics could be a manual then, with a button for up and down and the right software.

To my mind, if it does the gear change automatically, it's an automatic gearbox.

The command phase is irrelevant to my mind, it's the doing phase that I *want* to be involved with.

Pressing buttons is boring!

Dave

[astonfan09]

Mr Whippy said:

All automatics could be a manual then, with a button for up and down and the right software.

To my mind, if it does the gear change automatically, it's an automatic gearbox.

The command phase is irrelevant to my mind, it's the doing phase that I *want* to be involved with.

Pressing buttons is boring!

Dave

I fully agree. Not to mention the extra tractability you get from the clutch. You have no idea how much I yearn for that extra tractability when I'm driving around town with a twin clutch box

[DonkeyApple]

kambites said:

How do Alfa weigh their cars? Dry? Wet? DIN?

My guess would be without side impact protection, airbags and all the other things which have made mass production cars so heavy.

[Crusoe]

Matt colour might be a wrap for the show car or a thick paint effect to hide the carbon weave coming through the paint or similar issue they haven't sorted out yet?

[jamieboy]

Crusoe said:

Matt colour might be a wrap for the show car or a thick paint effect to hide the carbon weave coming through the paint or similar issue they haven't sorted out yet?

Not sure - they say that along with the 4C concept, the new "Lava Red" paint makes its debut. It is "an anodised, soft touch red from a paint that creates depth and power" and that the colour is "desirable and precious" thanks to the "soft touch effect".

[Shmee]

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