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streaky

19,311 posts

132 months

[news] 
Saturday 5th March 2011 quote quote all
Knock_knock said:
tenohfive said:
I was recently asked to arrest someone as they were a witness and refused to go to court. He spent the weekend in the cells so that he would be available to give evidence to the court.
+1
A logical question to both of you:

Was the witness then as fulsome to the prosecution's case as had been previously expected?

Streaky

Tsippy

6,181 posts

52 months

[news] 
Saturday 5th March 2011 quote quote all
Out of interest, do they still read out the full name and address of a witness giving evidence? My parents gave evidence against a car thief back in the early 90s and had their full contact details announced in front of the guy they were giving evidence against banghead


SteveScooby

660 posts

60 months

[news] 
Saturday 5th March 2011 quote quote all
Tsippy said:
Out of interest, do they still read out the full name and address of a witness giving evidence? My parents gave evidence against a car thief back in the early 90s and had their full contact details announced in front of the guy they were giving evidence against banghead
Address shouln't be disclosed, unless it's relevant, such as if it's the scene of crime like a burglary.

Monkeylegend

4,837 posts

114 months

[news] 
Saturday 5th March 2011 quote quote all
Isaac Hunt said:
Very valid. You may also find that you turning up might just be the deciding factor in the thief pleading guilty at the 11th hour.

You can claim expenses for travel and loss of earnings if you need to.
Looks like details of the case have been leaked to PH already, be careful OP wink

Knock_knock

399 posts

59 months

[news] 
Saturday 5th March 2011 quote quote all
streaky said:
logical question to both of you:

Was the witness then as fulsome to the prosecution's case as had been previously expected?

Streaky
I don't know in my case, as it wasn't one of my jobs at Court.

However, both Defence and Prosecution are usually quite good at dealing with all sorts of people, and won't (or shouldn't) ask a question to which they do not already know the answer. A reluctant witness may not therefore be too much of a problem.

To be fair, it's quite unusual to have to get people to Court under real duress. I've had to deal with a great number of people who were strongly reluctant to attend, but have been persuaded without having to resort to unpleasantness. I've had a few summons issued, but even those steps are not frequent.

I've also heard a very senior Judge give a reluctant witness a very strong dressing down in closed session. I wouldn't have liked to have been on the receiving end of that. Not one tiny little bit.


KK


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tonker

46,601 posts

131 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Digging out from the past...

I have a friend being asked to attend court re: a witness statement for a burglary. She doesn't want to attend court (health reasons) and made it clear to the police at the time she didn't want to attend. The CPS is requiring her attendance.

She doesn't want to attend as it means the offenders (one pleaded, other is on trial) can then not only know where she lives (obvious from what the statement says) but also physically identify her and the offenders have history for recidivism and carrying weapons.

I know she should attend - but it really is proving bad for her health - my understanding was:

- if the CPS can be @rsed, they can try to agree the statement in advance so no need to attend
- she could do the 'behind a screen' evidence giving ?

Or is the system really so up itself that it will force her onto the stand, even when it is having such a poor effect on her health ? [and may force her to simply withdraw her statement [can you still do that ?]]

Breadvan72

17,624 posts

46 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
The statement won't be used unless the witness gives evidence or it is agreed. Giving evidence behind a screen is really for spooks and similar. Anyway, you say that the evidence itself will ID the witness, so a screen won't help. The CPS is supposed, in theory at least, to be improving witness support, and concerns about retaliation should be discussed with the prosecution team.

It's a tough one, but, at the end of the day, if people do not stand up and give evidence, the system can't deliver convictions.

daz3210

5,000 posts

123 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Can the Police insist you give a statement in the first place?

Reason I ask is that some years since a Police officer visited me at work. Story I was given by the officer was that someone using my first name, coupled with the name of the firm I used to work for had purchased a pay as you go mobile from a local shop, and it was fraudulently purchased. I was required to give a statement to the effect that I had not purchased the phone.

Two years on I received a notice from court that I was a witness in a Class A drugs and illegal firearms case, and could I tell them when I was unavailable to attend. Basically I shat myself, with all sorts of repercussions going through my mind.

Ultimately I was not required, but I had a nervous few months because I was told my statement had to be given to the defence, and it contained details of my address and current employer.

Under such circumstances can you refuse to give a statement in the first place, or attend court, or could you just stand up and say no comment to any question put to you?

XCP

12,107 posts

111 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
If you want criminals to be convicted then unfortunately, from time to time, members of the public have to put themselves out slightly. That is the way the system works.
It's no good complaining about criminals 'getting away with it' if people can't be arsed to make statements and subsequently turn up at court.

streaky

19,311 posts

132 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Soovy said:
They can force you yes.
That's not "asking", then.

Streaky

tonker

46,601 posts

131 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
XCP said:
If you want criminals to be convicted then unfortunately, from time to time, members of the public have to put themselves out slightly. That is the way the system works.
It's no good complaining about criminals 'getting away with it' if people can't be arsed to make statements and subsequently turn up at court.
she was 'misled' by the police officer at the time - she made it clear she did not want to attend court (health reasons) - officer concerned ticked 'maybe' or similar on the form. They won't even give her a copy of her statement....

Jasandjules

50,371 posts

112 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
tonker said:
she was 'misled' by the police officer at the time - she made it clear she did not want to attend court (health reasons) - officer concerned ticked 'maybe' or similar on the form. They won't even give her a copy of her statement....
Has she spoken to the court about her health?

tonker

46,601 posts

131 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Jasandjules said:
Has she spoken to the court about her health?
yes. They aren't interested. Has 'note from doctors' etc. etc...

NinjaPower

Original Poster:

3,101 posts

63 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all


I had forgotten I even started this thread...

Jasandjules

50,371 posts

112 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
tonker said:
yes. They aren't interested. Has 'note from doctors' etc. etc...
Does the note expressly state that she is medically unable to attend?

daz3210

5,000 posts

123 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
XCP said:
If you want criminals to be convicted then unfortunately, from time to time, members of the public have to put themselves out slightly. That is the way the system works.
It's no good complaining about criminals 'getting away with it' if people can't be arsed to make statements and subsequently turn up at court.
I can understand that bit, but if you have a reason for not doing so....

I would say not being of fit health is a good reason not to go.


wizzbilly

955 posts

76 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I have refused to go to court 3 times on the grounds i dont want some scum bag going down the side of my car with a key etc and police wont make anything stick on the criminal anyway and if do will be fine and slap on the hand .

so what happens should he op go to court then further down the line his stuff gets vandalised .

ask yourself one question why do the majority of officers i speak to live away from where they work sort of says it all realy .

Breadvan72

17,624 posts

46 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Thanks for your public spirited contribution!

Jasandjules

50,371 posts

112 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Breadvan72 said:
Thanks for your public spirited contribution!
It is understandable though. Perhaps not if you've never lived in such an area but if you have known the kind of things that he is talking about and known how little the police do to protect you, is it worth it for many people? No it is not.

But as to the OP, I'd have expected the court to accept ill health as a reason not to attend - is she the only witness?

daz3210

5,000 posts

123 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Jasandjules said:
Breadvan72 said:
Thanks for your public spirited contribution!
It is understandable though. Perhaps not if you've never lived in such an area but if you have known the kind of things that he is talking about and known how little the police do to protect you, is it worth it for many people? No it is not.

But as to the OP, I'd have expected the court to accept ill health as a reason not to attend - is she the only witness?
Is attending the only option?

You hear of scrotes appearing in court by video link. Why can witnesses possibly give evidence in a similar way? OK, there would be the logistics of setting it up, but surely it could be a worthwhile alternative in extreme circumstances.


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