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[news] 
Thursday 17th March 2011 quote quote all
When Robert Bamford and Lionel Martin founded Aston Martin in 1913 they declared that an Aston Martin should be: ‘A quality car of good performance and appearance, a car for the discerning driver with fast touring in mind, designed, developed and built as an individual.’

Working in a new era, Bamford Rose represents the original spirit, precision, dedication and expertise that inspired Aston Martin’s founders. The true engineering genius behind Aston Martin was the engineer Robert Bamford. It is his name, combined with that of the first-ever new era Aston Martin race car, named Rose by the factory, which gives Bamford Rose its title and inspiration.

The team behind Bamford Rose possess great depth of combined experience, learnt over many years spent engineering and developing Aston Martin cars for the factory, from DB7 / Vanquish to present day models.
Today, Bamford Rose evolve, service and prepare Aston Martin race cars, and offer both heritage and new-era Aston Martin road car owners unrivalled servicing and general repairs.

The purpose of this thread is to act as a single point of technical reference for PistonHeads forum members to draw from. If you would like any advice or recommendation for your pride and joy please feel free to ask here and Bamford Rose will get back to you as soon as possible.

We hope you welcome us to your forum and look forward to being of help to you all..!

Bamford Rose
www.bamfordrose.com


BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Friday 18th March 2011 quote quote all
Bamford Rose LLP is an independent service provider and has not been authorised by Aston Martin



My name is Mike, and whilst I don’t bring pictures and details regarding ownership of the world’s finest sports car, I do bring something equally as special.

Breaking the ‘apron strings’ from the factory, a team of dedicated engineers and technicians have created Bamford Rose. The cars we have spent years nurturing from prototype into production, we can now offer upgrade, evolution and general repair and service support to.

We have been ‘voyeurs’ of this thread for many years, and acknowledge there are already some great members who offer technical support for the good of the forum. The purpose of this thread is to complement that input with insight which is simply not available from those outside of the original development of these cars. The aim of Bamford Rose here is to create the definitive ‘look-up’ or reference to help members with owning and living with an Aston Martin.

The Bamford Rose team have a significant presence and success record with a long standing customer base in the Aston Martin Racing scene. Together with our road car experience, we hope that each facet of the ‘Aston Martin world’ Bamford Rose is a part of can be brought to life in this forum leading to renewed activity, interest and involvement.

So… we hope you give us a warm welcome and hope our technical input in this thread can serve to be of real value to you all. We also look forward to offering more ‘subjective’ opinions to general discussions about Aston Martin in the main forum, and from general repair or service questions / advice / recommendations, to engine, suspension, braking, body and interior evolution and improvements, please post your discussions here….!

Edited by BamfordMike on Tuesday 17th April 23:00

Auspuff

20 posts

93 months

[news] 
Friday 18th March 2011 quote quote all
Welcome to Pistonheads

Edited by Auspuff on Tuesday 8th May 17:31

tonyhall38

2,584 posts

99 months

[news] 
Saturday 19th March 2011 quote quote all
I thought we always had a 'Rick'.......

ssarwar001

15 posts

40 months

[news] 
Saturday 19th March 2011 quote quote all
Hi

I have a DBS 2008 and am having problems with the SAT Nav scree. It keeps changing colour (mainly blue but does go black as well)

Ive taken it to main dealer as the car is under warranty but they can't seem to find fault and seem unwilling to replace the screen given its something that has already been done previously. I'm concerned my main dealer warranty is due to expire soon and under an extended warranty this decet is not covered - have you seen this issue before???
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With these feet

4,304 posts

98 months

[news] 
Saturday 19th March 2011 quote quote all
Hi Mike, oddly enough I asked Bruce earlier today if you had put anything on here when he grinned and showed me his phone with it on....


BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Saturday 19th March 2011 quote quote all
Hi. Let me start by commenting on the dealer / warranty issue. Any manufacturing fault when new or occurs under warranty period, the dealer / manufacture are duty bound to resolve, either by replacement of defective part or repair. Quite how a 'halo' product customer is treated in this way is beyond belief..! As you indicate it has been looked at before I guess the simple things have been checked, like making sure no auto functions that link-in with time settings are sending the screen into a 'night-mode', but as you say the screen goes blue and black I doubt this is the case. I guess a new screen / tablet has already been fitted once before but same problem did not go away? The best advice I can give is stamp your authority at the dealership stating they are duty bound to correct either a manufacturing defect (if it has always been problematic), or they repair a defect that has happened during the period of warranty. In answer to your direct question, I have not seen this error state before.

oblio

3,397 posts

110 months

[news] 
Sunday 20th March 2011 quote quote all
Mike

Where are you based?

Graham

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Sunday 20th March 2011 quote quote all
oblio said:
Mike

Where are you based?

Graham
Hi Graham.

10 mins from Junction 12 M40, towards Shipston-on-Stour.

Mike.

DAMIT

222 posts

46 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd March 2011 quote quote all
What is the exact address? Cannot see it on this thread or on your web site, just your telephone number and email.

Always concerns me when this basic information is not readily available on web sites.

Or is it that there is no public access?

Just interested!

v8vpaul

25 posts

40 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd March 2011 quote quote all
Hello Mike.
Thanks to one of your technicians for spending the time on the phone yesterday talking about upgrades you offer / are available on your website. You were not in the office, so your technician suggested I post any follow up questions I had on here.

I like to know the information I receive is cast-iron, what exactly was your responsibility whilst employed by the Aston Martin factory? If that’s ok of me to ask?
Paul.

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd March 2011 quote quote all
DAMIT said:
What is the exact address? Cannot see it on this thread or on your web site, just your telephone number and email.

Always concerns me when this basic information is not readily available on web sites.

Or is it that there is no public access?

Just interested!
Hi.

Previously,there was no public access owing to the fact we dedicated ourselves to Aston Martin motorsport.
Website is now updated with full contact details.
Our postcode is CV36 4HT.
All the best.
Mike.

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Wednesday 23rd March 2011 quote quote all
v8vpaul said:
Hello Mike.
Thanks to one of your technicians for spending the time on the phone yesterday talking about upgrades you offer / are available on your website. You were not in the office, so your technician suggested I post any follow up questions I had on here.

I like to know the information I receive is cast-iron, what exactly was your responsibility whilst employed by the Aston Martin factory? If that’s ok of me to ask?
Paul.
Hi Paul
Glad we were able to help you decide if the modifications discussed are for you, whatever follow-up questions you have please feel free to post them on this forum.

My position at Aston Martin was engine performance development and vehicle calibration engineer for Vantage S, Virage, DBS, DB9, V12 Vantage, 4.3L and 4.7L V8 Vantage, N400 road, N24 race, Vanquish S and DB7 GT.
The job was a 50/50 split between developing the engine on the dyno for performance and emissions output. Then to finish off each project, time was spent in car with laptop programming engine control / driveability for all market conditions (-30 to +40 degree C ambient air temperature across a spread of fuel specifications).
Before AML I held the same position / responsibility for BMW Group and delivered Cooper S, Cooper and Mini One engines into production.

I am interested to understand what you want to know next..?

Mike


Siy

247 posts

102 months

[news] 
Friday 25th March 2011 quote quote all
Hi Mike...

Just wanted to thank you for taking that much time, to explain to an utter novice about the clutch etc... I for one will definitely be visiting you. Liek the idea of the exhaust being tuned specifically to my requirements... only problem is now I have to decide exactly what my requirements are!!! Decisions...decisions!

Thanks again - it's nice to talk with someone that is genuinely interested in the topic, rather than the usual dealers that are just interested in the invoice!
Thanks
simon

v8vpaul

25 posts

40 months

[news] 
Saturday 26th March 2011 quote quote all
BamfordMike said:
v8vpaul said:
Hello Mike.
Thanks to one of your technicians for spending the time on the phone yesterday talking about upgrades you offer / are available on your website. You were not in the office, so your technician suggested I post any follow up questions I had on here.

I like to know the information I receive is cast-iron, what exactly was your responsibility whilst employed by the Aston Martin factory? If that’s ok of me to ask?
Paul.
Hi Paul
Glad we were able to help you decide if the modifications discussed are for you, whatever follow-up questions you have please feel free to post them on this forum.

My position at Aston Martin was engine performance development and vehicle calibration engineer for Vantage S, Virage, DBS, DB9, V12 Vantage, 4.3L and 4.7L V8 Vantage, N400 road, N24 race, Vanquish S and DB7 GT.
The job was a 50/50 split between developing the engine on the dyno for performance and emissions output. Then to finish off each project, time was spent in car with laptop programming engine control / driveability for all market conditions (-30 to +40 degree C ambient air temperature across a spread of fuel specifications).
Before AML I held the same position / responsibility for BMW Group and delivered Cooper S, Cooper and Mini One engines into production.

I am interested to understand what you want to know next..?

Mike
Hello Mike
OK, impressive CV
I’m reassured to know I’m talking to a real engineer instead of aftermarket folk I have little confidence in.
I live in Spain, Aston advice outside dealer network is non-existent, but the dealers are not that much cop.
I originally had a DB9 but caught a financial cold. Instead of leaving the brand I down sized to V8. But the V8 simply isn’t the V12 and I find myself wanting more, especially when I do the occasional track day. Is it possible you could draft out the upgrades available and the benefit + other comments associated with each.
You say in your intro that the purpose of this thread is to provide the ultimate resource, if your answer could cover non Bamford Rose upgrades too, it would help to make a decision regarding the direction I take.
Paul


Luckyluciano

2,398 posts

100 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th March 2011 quote quote all
v8vpaul said:
BamfordMike said:
v8vpaul said:
Hello Mike.
Thanks to one of your technicians for spending the time on the phone yesterday talking about upgrades you offer / are available on your website. You were not in the office, so your technician suggested I post any follow up questions I had on here.

I like to know the information I receive is cast-iron, what exactly was your responsibility whilst employed by the Aston Martin factory? If that’s ok of me to ask?
Paul.
Hi Paul
Glad we were able to help you decide if the modifications discussed are for you, whatever follow-up questions you have please feel free to post them on this forum.

My position at Aston Martin was engine performance development and vehicle calibration engineer for Vantage S, Virage, DBS, DB9, V12 Vantage, 4.3L and 4.7L V8 Vantage, N400 road, N24 race, Vanquish S and DB7 GT.
The job was a 50/50 split between developing the engine on the dyno for performance and emissions output. Then to finish off each project, time was spent in car with laptop programming engine control / driveability for all market conditions (-30 to +40 degree C ambient air temperature across a spread of fuel specifications).
Before AML I held the same position / responsibility for BMW Group and delivered Cooper S, Cooper and Mini One engines into production.

I am interested to understand what you want to know next..?

Mike
Hello Mike
OK, impressive CV
I’m reassured to know I’m talking to a real engineer instead of aftermarket folk I have little confidence in.
I live in Spain, Aston advice outside dealer network is non-existent, but the dealers are not that much cop.
I originally had a DB9 but caught a financial cold. Instead of leaving the brand I down sized to V8. But the V8 simply isn’t the V12 and I find myself wanting more, especially when I do the occasional track day. Is it possible you could draft out the upgrades available and the benefit + other comments associated with each.
You say in your intro that the purpose of this thread is to provide the ultimate resource, if your answer could cover non Bamford Rose upgrades too, it would help to make a decision regarding the direction I take.
Paul
I too would like to jump on this question a little and ask for your thoughts on both the
Aston and Prodrive power upgrades? Do they give you "bang for your buck" or are there other
ways to get more performance.

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all

No problem Paul and Lucky…!

Answers to your questions to follow in separate posts which outline the different routes to performance upgrade the V8 Vantage. Skip to the end if you just want the executive summary…! I thought the detail to get there was important to include though.

I Hope this info dispels some myths, saves some money from potentially buying ‘the emperors clothes’, and delivers a route to transform slightly lacklustre 4.3L Vantage performance into a… Supercar..!

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Exhaust system:
Replacement of the standard silencer with upgrade to a sports system seems a very popular modification. One reason for this, additional to the search for extra performance, is the search for an exhaust note of personal preference, made necessary by the fact that the standard exhaust note is muted under certain conditions to comply with stringent noise drive-by regulations to allow the car to enter the market place. Simple solution.. Remove fuse 22 to prevent the bypass / silencing valve (located in the silencer) from closing and making the exhaust note quieter in these sensitive conditions. The valve is fully open in its default position, so electronic removal of control simply allows the valve to stay open at all times. The result, the exhaust note provided by the standard silencer is no longer muted at low engine speeds, there is no performance increase achieved via this mod, however, the drivers perception of performance will increase due to the simple fact the exhaust note is louder.

For those owners who have undertaken this mod already, but are still in search of a ‘different’ exhaust note, the next stage is the fitment of an aftermarket silencer system. Regarding sound quality, there is no right or wrong answer here, its personal preference and each brand does something different; from American muscle car V8 burble to a more European ‘refined’ racing note. As the exhaust note from aftermarket silencer will inevitably be louder than removal of fuse 22, the driver will yet again perceive greater engine performance, but, in reality the performance gain is something quite different. Reduced (louder) silencing is achieved by internal design changes which cause a reduction in exhaust system back pressure. The result of this increase in engine breathing is increased performance, however, the drivers perception of performance is greater than the actual flywheel / road wheel performance gain, and many aftermarket tuning companies prey on this fact by claiming more performance than is actually true. These days, it is pretty much industry standard concerning engines which produce close to 100BHP per litre to report that a silencer causes an exhaust back pressure rise of circa 10 Kilopascal (KPa), the same industry standard reports about a 0.7BHP increase per 1Kpa reduction of system backpressure. This means that even if you were to remove the silencer completely, with the intermediate pipes venting to atmosphere, the performance increase would be in the region of 7BHP. However, this is with no silencer box present, so with some form of silencing present, no matter how loud, there will be a small amount of additional back pressure increase. Given an average silencer backpressure rise of, say, 5 KPa, the true increase of performance would be (5x0.7) 3.5BHP. Anybody claiming more than this is preying on the fact the loud exhaust note is worth a perceived performance increase, should their systems come with ‘power test results’ claiming more, scrutiny of the test conditions must be made to verify claims.

Replacement of the Catalyst with upgrade to a sports system is the next step. The V8 Vantage has twin bricks fitted within the catalyst can. Using the same industry standard mentioned above, catalysts fitted to 100BHP per litre engines cause a typical increase in exhaust system backpressure of approx. 12.5KPa. There are two fitted, so, do the maths again, 2x12.5x0.7 = 17.5BHP rise if there were no catalysts whatsoever present in the system. There are plenty of motorsport catalysts on the market, all of which have some form of catalyst matrix present in the can. So, the reduction in system backpressure in reality would be, say, 15KPa (leaving approx.10). Meaning the true increase of performance would be 15x0.7=10.5BHP. Same as with the silencer, anybody claiming more than this is preying on the fact the loud exhaust note is worth a greater ‘perceived’ performance increase.

So, long story short, perceived performance increase from sports silencer and motorsport catalysts can often be…mega…. The reality is approx. 3.5BHP from silencer, 10.5BHP catalysts = 14BHP total. Because this performance increase stems from the reduction in the build-up of exhaust back pressure, the build-up of exhaust back pressure does not start until approx. 5500 rpm, and become significant until 6000 rpm to the redline. So, loud exhaust note and the potential of 14BHP aside, you will not realistically notice the difference in vehicle performance unless you drive consistently up to the redline speed.

The final step regarding the exhaust system would be the manifold / primary pipes. The standard exhaust system fitted to the V8 Vantage is a 4-2-1 configuration. The intelligent modification would be a 4-1 system that gives the same low speed torque figure, yet improved breathing at peak power speed to return the potential which comes from a 4-1 configuration (4-2-1 configurations give better low speed torque at the sacrifice of power, whilst 4-1 systems often sacrifice torque to give better breathing at peak power speeds). Combine a manifold of 4-1 construction (which does not loose any torque), which would increase power by approx. 15BHP, with motorsport catalysts (10.5BHP) and sports silencer (3.5BHP) and you have the potential of a fantastic exhaust note with real world performance increase above approx. 5500 rpm of circa 30BHP. And yes, this would be +30BHP for either 4.3L or 4.7L as the rule of performance increase from backpressure reduction is the same for both displacements.

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
ECU Re-mapping:
An ‘upgrade’ ECU (engine control unit) ‘Re-map’ seems another very popular modification, but seriously, buyer beware, there are some vendors selling the ‘emperors clothes’.
To give you an example why this statement is true, regarding the AMV8, performance is achieved at peak power by running a certain; variable inlet cam position, airflow, spark timing and fuelling value. So, anybody considering an ECU re-map, where an increase in performance is being offered, should ask the vendor these questions before making a purchase;
Will a re-map ECU change the variable inlet cam position giving more performance? = No, as manufacturer set cams to optimum in the standard map.
Will a re-map ECU provide more airflow giving more performance? = No, as the throttle is set wide open by manufacturer at full driver pedal demand.
Will a re-map ECU advance the spark? = No, as when running 97 Octane fuel the knock control sensors deliver optimum spark at all times.
Will a re-map ECU return a fuelling based performance gain? Yes, but only if fuel is taken out. The maximum performance fuelling for most engines is 0.89 lambda and represents the 'plateau' of torque output. Richer (more fuel) than this (a figure less than 0.89) will detract performance, leaner (less fuel) than 0.89 and up to lambda 1.00, will also loose performance. The lambda value of the AMV8 Vantage at peak power speed is circa. 0.79. This is because additional fuel (more / richer than 0.89) is required to quench / reduce catalyst temperatures to their maximum permissible, via more fuel resulting in a cooler exhaust gas temperature. So, if fuelling is taken out (going from 0.79 lambda to 0.89), performance will increase by approx. 5BHP per 0.05 Lambda. So, by taking 0.1 lambda out to return 0.89 will result in an increase of circa 10BHP. But, if fuel is taken out, this will over-temp the catalysts (from the hotter exhaust gas temperature due to the leaner mixture), with disastrous consequences (broken cat, burnt-out exhaust valve seats - expensive repair bill). However, the common approach by most aftermarket tuning companies is to 'hose-in' more fuel, under the misconception this act will return more power. Trying to get some people to understand the inverse can often be quite difficult...!


So, what other options are there to increase driveability from an ECU re-map?
Increased engine speed perhaps? I recall a commonly spoken about ECU re-flash on this forum, which increased engine speed limit up to 7500 rpm. Will this return more power? No, because one of the biggest contributing factors to engine performance is the length / volume of the inlet runner within the inlet manifold. The AMV8 achieves peak power at 7300 rpm, above that speed power drops off dramatically. So, if speed is increased and the runner length is not shortened, there will be no power increase. However, due to the engine revs being higher at point of gearshift into the next gear from redline, torque output will be higher. This means that when the next gear is selected the driver will feel increased torque and 'perceive' a small performance increase. In reality what is this worth? Very, very little, unless you hit the redline in each and every gear change.

Last thing on the list then; throttle progression mapping.
What this basically means is the rate of increase and percentage the pedal is depressed by the driver returns a pre-programmed torque output figure. More torque delivered from the engine for less pedal input from the driver, gives the driver the 'perception' that the car has sportier driveability feel. In reality do you get more performance? No, as the engine produces the same torque as it always did, it's just the driver is fooled into thinking performance is greater due to less pedal input giving faster acceleration. An analogy to explain this is where rally drivers fit quick rack steering system, less turns to go from lock-to-lock. This is needed because its time consuming and physically difficult to go from lock-to-lock. In reality, is it that difficult to depress the pedal to give the required torque the driver wants? Not in my opinion. Experimentation with aggressive pedal demand maps on all Aston Martin cars returns more thrilling driveability. But in reality, try parking the car or move backwards and forwards slowly in confined spaces - a disaster..! My advice is stick with the pedal maps set by the manufacturer, as what is programmed by them has been researched and tested in all circumstances - but each to their own I guess.

long story short, will an ECU Re-map return significant improvements? No, and those aftermarket tuning companies who advertise significant gains are trading the ‘emperors clothes’.
Anybody thinking about an ECU Re-map should question the vendor hard, get them to explain the detail behind the pretty 3d mapping graphs they display (if they can that is). Another tip, ask for your ECU to remain in the car and after a series of baseline tests plug the modified ECU in and back-to-back drive / feel what you are being sold. If they offer excuses why this can’t be done, steer clear…


That being said, the only ECU update / kit with any credibility is actually being offered by the factory. This kit comprises of a new airbox which reduces induction system losses and an ECU programmed to advance the spark if 100 Octane fuel is used. The factory took this kit from the N400 and now offers as a retro fit to 4.3L Vantage at the price of £2k. The factory declares 20BHP, this represents approx. 50/50 split from the increased performance coming from each element (airbox/fuel). But, the factory upgrade here, similar to the exhaust system modifications, will only return more performance / better driveability above 5500rpm. And if the driver hasn’t filled with 100 octane, the kit will only return 10 of the 20BHP due to the knock control system reducing spark back down to 97 Octane numbers.

The reason why most drivers want more performance from the 4.3L vantage is not necessarily the way the engine performs above 5500rpm, but how torque output gets you there.
At 420Nm the 4.3L engine can hardly be described as lacking torque (when compared with Porsche engine performance figures), but the weight of the Vantage could be identified as route cause for slightly lacklustre acceleration. For this reason the wise performance upgrade should come from a massive torque increase, which as explained here, will not come from an ECU re-map, exhaust system or air induction system. As the adage goes, ‘there is no replacement for displacement’…! The 4.3L Vantage requires a significant torque increase to return thrilling ‘SuperCar’ performance.

BamfordMike

541 posts

40 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Performance modification summary:

Clearly, the performance modification question / answer debate depends on the individual outcome required and budget available. For those that only want to improve the exhaust note, there are many options and personal preference on exhaust note and manufacturing quality will no doubt guide the choice made when seeking out a supplier.

For those who want to go a bit further with a few bolt-on parts (ECU Re-map, catalysts, sports silencer and air induction system parts), these will return small additional gains. But be aware, the perceived gain (noise) is often greater than the real gain (acceleration time). Regarding the exhaust system, the only significant performance gain is to be had by fitting new (4-1) manifolds together with the rest of the system (motorsport cats and sports silencer).

If you love the 4.3L Vantage but just want (significantly) better performance, simple, upgrade to 4.7L.
But, take the cost of trading up from the cheapest 4.3L (say £38k) to the cheapest 4.7L (say £68k) = £30k… Not cheap…But by stringing some performance mods together, it is possible to achieve performance levels far in excess of the cheapest 4.7L for around half the difference of the trade-up cost….. How? By upgrading displacement and by fitting the complete performance upgrade exhaust system (new manifolds, catalysts and sports silencer).

So, here is a summary of the options available;

4.3L @ 380 BHP+

1- Sports silencer = 3.5BHP
2- MotorSport Catalysts = 10.5BHP
3- Sports exhaust Manifold = 15BHP
4- Sports air intake system= 10BHP

Total = 39BHP: 4.3L @419 BHP

Stages 1-4 represent modifications that will increase performance above approx. 5000rpm, for performance modifications to increase engine torque (below 5000 rpm) see item 5 below.
The astute amongst you will notice that these 4 stages represent a hardware level significantly above a well known (and discussed about on the main forum) performance package which reported 425BHP – you can make your own minds up how likely it is to see those ponies at the rear wheels..!

4.3L @419 BHP+

5- Upgrade displacement to 4.7L = 40BHP at peak power speed / 50Nm up to 5000 rpm

Total = 4.3L to 4.7L now @ 459BHP 7300 rpm / 470Nm @5000 rpm – Supercar..!

For those with 4.7L already, modifications 1 through 4 can be added to give 459BHP / 470Nm @5000 rpm as well.

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