Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
An unexpected development with Turkey and this attack on the PKK, Which will, without doubt have implications within Turkey, the gas pipeline being blown up is just the start. This entire situation is a complete cluster of truly epic proportions.
I am struggling to understand why do this now? It seems almost a hurried action by Erdogan, with a primarily domestic political audience in mind or is this a power play in the region or both ?
Update:
Found this article, which make some interesting reading.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/isis-ally...
I am struggling to understand why do this now? It seems almost a hurried action by Erdogan, with a primarily domestic political audience in mind or is this a power play in the region or both ?
Update:
Found this article, which make some interesting reading.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/isis-ally...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 29th July 15:19
פטריק פולוק @redbrasco 3h3 hours ago
This really is a good news day. #Hezbollah Child-Killer Samir Kuntar Killed in Syria Airstrike http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Phil
This really is a good news day. #Hezbollah Child-Killer Samir Kuntar Killed in Syria Airstrike http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
????? ????? ?@redbrasco 3h3 hours ago
This really is a good news day. #Hezbollah Child-Killer Samir Kuntar Killed in Syria Airstrike http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Phil
Israel would do well to stay our of this mess, they do not want to get embroiled in the disaster unfolding in Syria.This really is a good news day. #Hezbollah Child-Killer Samir Kuntar Killed in Syria Airstrike http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Phil
They might want to tone down the child killing line, Israel have their own problems in this regard, collateral damage being the preferred term.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Found this article, which make some interesting reading.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/isis-ally...
Even in that piece there are so many contradictions...http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/isis-ally...
Does anyone know if by 'Kurds' we have anything like a homogenous group? I'd assumed that the peeps spread over Syria/Turkey/Iraq were of the same origin, thus the various groups (political and armed) would be linked somewhere.
I've read before that turkey has some animus towards the Kurds going back centuries. Seems there is no love lost and any opportunity to suppress them will be taken.
How much longer can Assad hold out?
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Israel would do well to stay our of this mess, they do not want to get embroiled in the disaster unfolding in Syria.
They might want to tone down the child killing line, Israel have their own problems in this regard, collateral damage being the preferred term.
Not if they consider it will effect their national security.They might want to tone down the child killing line, Israel have their own problems in this regard, collateral damage being the preferred term.
They have every right to take preventative action as they have done several times previously.
Also, they have done better than anyone to stay out of the mess that is Syria only going as far as to set up two field hospitals on the Golan to treat (via the UN) some injured Syrians that are brought across for treatment before being taken back into Syria by the same route.
Phil
Has this been posted yet
John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
Uploaded yesterday by one of the opposition factions within the Syrian opposition:
https://youtu.be/ffRCc0ZrM0o
US training must thorough to be able to hit such a fast moving vehicle with a wire guided missile.
Phil
https://youtu.be/ffRCc0ZrM0o
US training must thorough to be able to hit such a fast moving vehicle with a wire guided missile.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Uploaded yesterday by one of the opposition factions within the Syrian opposition:
https://youtu.be/ffRCc0ZrM0o
US training must thorough to be able to hit such a fast moving vehicle with a wire guided missile.
Phil
Wait till one of those TOW missiles are used against a Western target or civilian plane. Great idea pushing high tech arms into a region in flux, with the main group being a psychotic bunch of islamists fundamentalists crazies who consider al qaeda too soft.https://youtu.be/ffRCc0ZrM0o
US training must thorough to be able to hit such a fast moving vehicle with a wire guided missile.
Phil
No danger there then.
You have to wonder at the thought process that ended with, yea, send them missiles and train them to use it, they promised not to shoot at us or give them to ISIS, pinky promise too.
Transmitter Man said:
????? ????? ?@redbrasco 3h3 hours ago
This really is a good news day. #Hezbollah Child-Killer Samir Kuntar Killed in Syria Airstrike http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Phil
Israel accusing Hezbollah of being 'child killers'? And they say irony is dead . . .This really is a good news day. #Hezbollah Child-Killer Samir Kuntar Killed in Syria Airstrike http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/1...
Phil
XM5ER said:
Has this been posted yet
John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
I thought when the videos first surfaced it was thought ISIS used a production company to stage manage these anyway?John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Wait till one of those TOW missiles are used against a Western target or civilian plane. Great idea pushing high tech arms into a region in flux, with the main group being a psychotic bunch of islamists fundamentalists crazies who consider al qaeda too soft.
No danger there then.
You have to wonder at the thought process that ended with, yea, send them missiles and train them to use it, they promised not to shoot at us or give them to ISIS, pinky promise too.
Quantum,No danger there then.
You have to wonder at the thought process that ended with, yea, send them missiles and train them to use it, they promised not to shoot at us or give them to ISIS, pinky promise too.
While it's not impossible to hit a helicopter, hitting a plane unless it's parked really would be nigh on impossible. Circa 2500m range. TOW's are used to hit stationary or moving targets at ground level.
The American government I think have been very selective as to who they hand out TOW's to.
I think you're taking things out of context.
Do you read the Daily Mail or watch RT?
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Uploaded yesterday by one of the opposition factions within the Syrian opposition:
https://youtu.be/ffRCc0ZrM0o
US training must thorough to be able to hit such a fast moving vehicle with a wire guided missile.
Phil
they aren't that tough from a stable position, just keep the pip on target and it'll follow what you're pointing it at.https://youtu.be/ffRCc0ZrM0o
US training must thorough to be able to hit such a fast moving vehicle with a wire guided missile.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Wait till one of those TOW missiles are used against a Western target or civilian plane. Great idea pushing high tech arms into a region in flux, with the main group being a psychotic bunch of islamists fundamentalists crazies who consider al qaeda too soft.
No danger there then.
You have to wonder at the thought process that ended with, yea, send them missiles and train them to use it, they promised not to shoot at us or give them to ISIS, pinky promise too.
Quantum,No danger there then.
You have to wonder at the thought process that ended with, yea, send them missiles and train them to use it, they promised not to shoot at us or give them to ISIS, pinky promise too.
While it's not impossible to hit a helicopter, hitting a plane unless it's parked really would be nigh on impossible. Circa 2500m range. TOW's are used to hit stationary or moving targets at ground level.
The American government I think have been very selective as to who they hand out TOW's to.
I think you're taking things out of context.
Do you read the Daily Mail or watch RT?
Phil
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 31st July 11:45
ofcorsa said:
XM5ER said:
Has this been posted yet
John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
I thought when the videos first surfaced it was thought ISIS used a production company to stage manage these anyway?John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Near impossible ? That is wrong, a civilian airliner the size of 747 or A380 on take off roll, would make a lovely target for a guided missile designed to destroy a moving tank from 2.5 Km away.
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 31st July 11:45
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Near impossible ? That is wrong, a civilian airliner the size of 747 or A380 on take off roll, would make a lovely target for a guided missile designed to destroy a moving tank from 2.5 Km away.
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
________________________________
Please read what I wrote. I did state near impossible. There is AFAIK maybe less than a handful of TOW hits at Syrian airfields of aircraft and most all have been heli's, the last when it was coming in to land. Assad & co seem to have a pretty good handle of military airfield security, at least at theior sites which are still active with perimeter security outside the range of TOW's.
Re Qatar & Saudi. I'm sure some arms are being passed through these third party countries but I've not read anything about either handing out TOW's, have you?
Turkey & Jordan yes.
From what I've read on the various blogs I've yet to read 'anyone' discuss TOW's being handed out, let alone training to any group other than those which, in the whole scheme of things could be called anything other than moderate Syrian opposition groups.
We're not talking JN or ISIS here.
Maybe you know different and could post some reference links.
Phil
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
________________________________
Please read what I wrote. I did state near impossible. There is AFAIK maybe less than a handful of TOW hits at Syrian airfields of aircraft and most all have been heli's, the last when it was coming in to land. Assad & co seem to have a pretty good handle of military airfield security, at least at theior sites which are still active with perimeter security outside the range of TOW's.
Re Qatar & Saudi. I'm sure some arms are being passed through these third party countries but I've not read anything about either handing out TOW's, have you?
Turkey & Jordan yes.
From what I've read on the various blogs I've yet to read 'anyone' discuss TOW's being handed out, let alone training to any group other than those which, in the whole scheme of things could be called anything other than moderate Syrian opposition groups.
We're not talking JN or ISIS here.
Maybe you know different and could post some reference links.
Phil
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 31st July 11:45
Owen
ISIS and TOW missiles, with referenced articles.
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
ISIS even provide a handy professional looking video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVLz-c1HyyI
This is a huge mess that has been created through international intervention and the continual stoking of the fire by every country with a regional power illusion.
The faith you place in CIA, Saudi, Turkey and Jordan is misplaced IMO. They are not asking for invoices and expense slips after they are used, even with the tightly controlled Stinger missiles in the Afghan war, some managed to get "lost", do you think in this chaotic environment, with people swapping sides, alliances changing, that the weapons and training are not falling into the wrong hands? It is naive to not consider this.
The best option is to back Assad, who had been pro Europe, West and largely secular. Let him sort out the problems within Syria, push ISIS and associated terrorist groups out, and then get the Iranians involved in cleaning up Western and Northern Iraq, as was done in Afghanistan. ISIS can be sorted out in under a year, Syria can be stabilised, the refugees can go home and try and rebuild. Iraq can have what passes for "peace" since the invasion in 2003.
Turkey needs to be calmed down, as Edrogan is creating all sorts of mayhem for internal political consumption with the Kurds.
The huge BUT is, peace is not actually wanted by the external protagonists.
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Near impossible ? That is wrong, a civilian airliner the size of 747 or A380 on take off roll, would make a lovely target for a guided missile designed to destroy a moving tank from 2.5 Km away.
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
________________________________
Please read what I wrote. I did state near impossible. There is AFAIK maybe less than a handful of TOW hits at Syrian airfields of aircraft and most all have been heli's, the last when it was coming in to land. Assad & co seem to have a pretty good handle of military airfield security, at least at theior sites which are still active with perimeter security outside the range of TOW's.
Re Qatar & Saudi. I'm sure some arms are being passed through these third party countries but I've not read anything about either handing out TOW's, have you?
Turkey & Jordan yes.
From what I've read on the various blogs I've yet to read 'anyone' discuss TOW's being handed out, let alone training to any group other than those which, in the whole scheme of things could be called anything other than moderate Syrian opposition groups.
We're not talking JN or ISIS here.
Maybe you know different and could post some reference links.
Phil
You are joking about the "very selective" part, there is a whole raft of articles about the fluid nature of the various groups, both in terms of co-operation but also personnel moving between sides.
Qatar and Saudi Arabia are also doing the training and supply, they might not be quite so discriminating in weeding out the Islamic fundamentalists, considering Saudi is the home of Whabbism, Salafists, Al Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, beheadings, religious persecution, the 911 bombers etc. They make Iran look reasonable.
Their definition of Islamic fundamentalism may be somewhat different to ours.
The West is playing with fire here, the entire region is destabilised, but then perhaps that was the plan from the beginning.
________________________________
Please read what I wrote. I did state near impossible. There is AFAIK maybe less than a handful of TOW hits at Syrian airfields of aircraft and most all have been heli's, the last when it was coming in to land. Assad & co seem to have a pretty good handle of military airfield security, at least at theior sites which are still active with perimeter security outside the range of TOW's.
Re Qatar & Saudi. I'm sure some arms are being passed through these third party countries but I've not read anything about either handing out TOW's, have you?
Turkey & Jordan yes.
From what I've read on the various blogs I've yet to read 'anyone' discuss TOW's being handed out, let alone training to any group other than those which, in the whole scheme of things could be called anything other than moderate Syrian opposition groups.
We're not talking JN or ISIS here.
Maybe you know different and could post some reference links.
Phil
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 31st July 11:45
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
ISIS even provide a handy professional looking video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVLz-c1HyyI
This is a huge mess that has been created through international intervention and the continual stoking of the fire by every country with a regional power illusion.
The faith you place in CIA, Saudi, Turkey and Jordan is misplaced IMO. They are not asking for invoices and expense slips after they are used, even with the tightly controlled Stinger missiles in the Afghan war, some managed to get "lost", do you think in this chaotic environment, with people swapping sides, alliances changing, that the weapons and training are not falling into the wrong hands? It is naive to not consider this.
The best option is to back Assad, who had been pro Europe, West and largely secular. Let him sort out the problems within Syria, push ISIS and associated terrorist groups out, and then get the Iranians involved in cleaning up Western and Northern Iraq, as was done in Afghanistan. ISIS can be sorted out in under a year, Syria can be stabilised, the refugees can go home and try and rebuild. Iraq can have what passes for "peace" since the invasion in 2003.
Turkey needs to be calmed down, as Edrogan is creating all sorts of mayhem for internal political consumption with the Kurds.
The huge BUT is, peace is not actually wanted by the external protagonists.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Sunday 2nd August 08:56
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