Meanwhile, In Syria
Discussion
Quantum,
I'll go through your links one by one if I may.
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
In the comments section there is a link which brings up this page:
http://rare.us/story/surprise-isis-is-now-using-u-...
Where it states clearly that the TOW's were possibly spoils from assaults on both regime & moderate Syrian opposition groups.
So, using US made TOW's, possibly, given to them by the US, possibly not.
Phil
I'll go through your links one by one if I may.
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
In the comments section there is a link which brings up this page:
http://rare.us/story/surprise-isis-is-now-using-u-...
Where it states clearly that the TOW's were possibly spoils from assaults on both regime & moderate Syrian opposition groups.
So, using US made TOW's, possibly, given to them by the US, possibly not.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Quantum,
I'll go through your links one by one if I may.
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
In the comments section there is a link which brings up this page:
http://rare.us/story/surprise-isis-is-now-using-u-...
Where it states clearly that the TOW's were possibly spoils from assaults on both regime & moderate Syrian opposition groups.
So, using US made TOW's, possibly, given to them by the US, possibly not.
Phil
You have made my point, the region is unstable, and yet sophisticated ATGMS are being pushed into the area. Remember the Russian Afghan conflict? Where that ultimately led.I'll go through your links one by one if I may.
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
In the comments section there is a link which brings up this page:
http://rare.us/story/surprise-isis-is-now-using-u-...
Where it states clearly that the TOW's were possibly spoils from assaults on both regime & moderate Syrian opposition groups.
So, using US made TOW's, possibly, given to them by the US, possibly not.
Phil
The blowback from this war has still to be seen, in cities around the world. We will need a "Western" tragedy before this is accepted as a really bad idea.
The alternate reality groups are actively targeting western supported groups to get the weapons.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
.html
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Sunday 2nd August 11:02
Quantum,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVLz-c1HyyI
And in your second and final reference video above the fact that these TOW's were taken from the FSA was stated in the opening words.
So, thanks for the non-references.
Let's move on.
Phil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVLz-c1HyyI
And in your second and final reference video above the fact that these TOW's were taken from the FSA was stated in the opening words.
So, thanks for the non-references.
Let's move on.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Quantum,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVLz-c1HyyI
And in your second and final reference video above the fact that these TOW's were taken from the FSA was stated in the opening words.
So, thanks for the non-references.
Let's move on.
Phil
Yea, disregard a full article on ISIS and their acquisition of ATGM missiles from western sources, with supporting evidence, on a single comment post at the bottom of the page. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVLz-c1HyyI
And in your second and final reference video above the fact that these TOW's were taken from the FSA was stated in the opening words.
So, thanks for the non-references.
Let's move on.
Phil
Move on, nothing to see here.
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Yea, disregard a full article on ISIS and their acquisition of ATGM missiles from western sources, with supporting evidence, on a single comment post at the bottom of the page.
Move on, nothing to see here.
Quantum,Move on, nothing to see here.
You implied the US had supplied IS with TOW's.
Phil
XM5ER said:
ofcorsa said:
XM5ER said:
Has this been posted yet
John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
I thought when the videos first surfaced it was thought ISIS used a production company to stage manage these anyway?John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1018501/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQJNvaaKSl8&fe...
IMDBb has that episode being broadcast in Sep 2014.
Brief execution scene at the 60 minute mark looks similar? I'd be more inclined to believe it's someone pushing misinformation using a dramatised scene than it is any sort of "faked Moon landings" sort of deal lifted directly from McCain's laptop, but who knows? Suits any number of agendas for people to push that narrative.
Transmitter Man said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
Yea, disregard a full article on ISIS and their acquisition of ATGM missiles from western sources, with supporting evidence, on a single comment post at the bottom of the page.
Move on, nothing to see here.
Quantum,Move on, nothing to see here.
You implied the US had supplied IS with TOW's.
Phil
http://levantreport.com/2015/01/01/isis-is-now-dep...
"In a December 27 article, independent journalist Maram Susli outlined the existing evidence for Al-Qaeda group Al-Nusrah Front being in possession of US-supplied TOW anti-tank missiles, while also raising the possibility that ISIS could already be in possession of these systems given the porous and interactive nature of terror militias operating in Syria:
Given the Syrian rebels’ history of openly working along side or defecting to Al Qaeda groups, it is highly doubtful the US government did not predict the TOW missiles would end up in Al Qaeda’s hands.
It is more likely the US provided the rebels with the TOW missiles whilst knowing it would end up in the hands of Al Qaeda. Indeed it has been widely accepted, that Jabhat Al Nusra, ISIS and Ahrar al Sham, another Al Qaeda linked group, are the most powerful groups opposing the Syrian army.
Indeed, it has been documented by an external monitoring group, the UK-based Conflict Armament Research, that the well-known CIA-Saudi program (publicly acknowledged to have begun in 2012) to transfer thousands of tons of weaponry to insurgents in Syria resulted in the arming of ISIS fighters.
Conflict Armament Research was able to trace the serial numbers of weapons recovered by Kurds battling ISIS in Eastern Syria back directly to the CIA-Saudi weapons airlift program. While not as advanced and up-to-date as the current anti-tank systems being displayed in ISIS photographs, the weapons monitoring group’s official report provided evidence that portable rockets were making making it to ISIS hands as of 2013:
M79 90 MM anti-tank rockets captured from IS forces in Syria are identical to M79 rockets transferred by Saudi Arabia to forces operationg under the ‘Free Syrian Army’ umbrella in 2013.
Expect more of US-made BGM 71E TOW systems to show up in ISIS hands. Eventually, enough photographic and serial inscription evidence will be available to establish direct chain of custody and origin. Expect the CIA, Pentagon, and their partners in the Gulf to be in full denial and defensive mode."
A few more articles backing this up.
Defectors handing over TOW missiles to ISIS.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article40...
New evidence emerged this week that yet another terror group operating in Syria possesses BGM-71 TOW anti-tank missiles that had been provided by the U.S. to so-called “vetted moderate” rebel groups.
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/07/31/chechen-terro...
But lets ignore this, because in your view, it is highly unlikely ISIS could not possibly be given training and supply of TOW ATGW missiles. They have already managed to hit an Egyptian warship with a ATGW missile, possibly a TOW missile.
I prefer to live in the real world.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Sunday 2nd August 19:29
Quantum,
I will not dispute that IS have acquired TOW's however picking up on that journalists quote: Given the Syrian rebels’ history of openly working along side or defecting to Al Qaeda groups, it is highly doubtful the US government did not predict the TOW missiles would end up in Al Qaeda’s hands.
You will agree this is but a single independent journalists opinion, and we all have one of those.
In that article they make the mistake of categorizing all groups opposing Assad as one. While AN and other AQ affiliated groups plus the Kurds are fighting Assad's regime sometimes alongside less extreme opposition groups most agree that IS is playing a completely different game.
If a typically disorganized opposition group is surrounded by the likes of IS I think you'd offer to jump ship pretty quickly rather than shoot it out to lose your head.
Don't you think IS receive their munition spoils this way rather than a formal handover at the local Turkish or Jordan border post.
Phil
I will not dispute that IS have acquired TOW's however picking up on that journalists quote: Given the Syrian rebels’ history of openly working along side or defecting to Al Qaeda groups, it is highly doubtful the US government did not predict the TOW missiles would end up in Al Qaeda’s hands.
You will agree this is but a single independent journalists opinion, and we all have one of those.
In that article they make the mistake of categorizing all groups opposing Assad as one. While AN and other AQ affiliated groups plus the Kurds are fighting Assad's regime sometimes alongside less extreme opposition groups most agree that IS is playing a completely different game.
If a typically disorganized opposition group is surrounded by the likes of IS I think you'd offer to jump ship pretty quickly rather than shoot it out to lose your head.
Don't you think IS receive their munition spoils this way rather than a formal handover at the local Turkish or Jordan border post.
Phil
Transmitter Man said:
Quantum,
I will not dispute that IS have acquired TOW's however picking up on that journalists quote: Given the Syrian rebels’ history of openly working along side or defecting to Al Qaeda groups, it is highly doubtful the US government did not predict the TOW missiles would end up in Al Qaeda’s hands.
You will agree this is but a single independent journalists opinion, and we all have one of those.
In that article they make the mistake of categorizing all groups opposing Assad as one. While AN and other AQ affiliated groups plus the Kurds are fighting Assad's regime sometimes alongside less extreme opposition groups most agree that IS is playing a completely different game.
If a typically disorganized opposition group is surrounded by the likes of IS I think you'd offer to jump ship pretty quickly rather than shoot it out to lose your head.
Don't you think IS receive their munition spoils this way rather than a formal handover at the local Turkish or Jordan border post.
Phil
Your argument falls down when these weapons fall into isis hands, they really do not care about the finer points of etiquette, they will use them against their enemies. I will not dispute that IS have acquired TOW's however picking up on that journalists quote: Given the Syrian rebels’ history of openly working along side or defecting to Al Qaeda groups, it is highly doubtful the US government did not predict the TOW missiles would end up in Al Qaeda’s hands.
You will agree this is but a single independent journalists opinion, and we all have one of those.
In that article they make the mistake of categorizing all groups opposing Assad as one. While AN and other AQ affiliated groups plus the Kurds are fighting Assad's regime sometimes alongside less extreme opposition groups most agree that IS is playing a completely different game.
If a typically disorganized opposition group is surrounded by the likes of IS I think you'd offer to jump ship pretty quickly rather than shoot it out to lose your head.
Don't you think IS receive their munition spoils this way rather than a formal handover at the local Turkish or Jordan border post.
Phil
You and I are an enemy of ISIS, every person in the Christian or even Western world and some Muslim countries are the enemy.
The first time one of these weapons are used against a Western target, the fallacy of this discussion wi be laid bare for the casualties. Remember 911, we are laying the seeds for the next one.
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Tuesday 4th August 10:39
Elroy Blue said:
The US train and equip force, Division 30 has released a statement calling al-Nusra (al-Qaeda) their "brothers".
The whole thing is a complete mess.
They are the good crazies not the bad ones or so we are told, so we can arm them and train them.The whole thing is a complete mess.
Tomorrow they will be the bad crazies, who we need to bomb and give other crazies, weapons to fight them.
Seems simple enough.
Guam said:
I am struggling to figure out the end game in all this if the US have been supplying the weaponry to be used by ISIS what is the ultimate objective?
Maybe I am just too thick or missing some fundamental realpolitik objective that should be stupidly obvious.
Clearly these weapons are likely the reason Obama etc wont put ground troops in.
Still doesn't explain the ultimate end game though?
the ultimate end game is to make the game run as long as possible, more money for war industry, less people on the overpopulated planetMaybe I am just too thick or missing some fundamental realpolitik objective that should be stupidly obvious.
Clearly these weapons are likely the reason Obama etc wont put ground troops in.
Still doesn't explain the ultimate end game though?
Guam said:
Elroy Blue said:
The US train and equip force, Division 30 has released a statement calling al-Nusra (al-Qaeda) their "brothers".
The whole thing is a complete mess.
I am struggling to figure out the end game in all this if the US have been supplying the weaponry to be used by ISIS what is the ultimate objective?The whole thing is a complete mess.
Maybe I am just too thick or missing some fundamental realpolitik objective that should be stupidly obvious.
Clearly these weapons are likely the reason Obama etc wont put ground troops in.
Still doesn't explain the ultimate end game though?
On the one hand we know they were ahead of the curve on all of this (See the declassified Pentagon reports from a few years back predicting the rise of ISIS almost down to the very date), but at the same time their FP has been such a clusterf
k so far this decade, it's hard to make sense of it all.Is it all part of a planned shift to destabilise the whole region further and bring the Iranians up to speed to put a cap on the Gulf's power and wealth? Then why ruin Assad?
AreOut said:
the ultimate end game is to make the game run as long as possible, more money for war industry, less people on the overpopulated planet
Doesn't happen like that though does it, all the civilians leave - eventually ending up in the UK and having an average of 5.4 kids each, whilst a few thousand militants are left taking/losing/retaking/losing various piles of concrete rubble littered around the deserts.UN move fast.
Report says Isis are selling captured women as slaves with under 9s being the most expensive
www.rt.com/news/311612-un-isis-sex-slave/
After circulating for almost a year, the UN has finally confirmed the authenticity of the Islamic State Sex Price list being offered to their fighters and other men trying to purchase sex slaves as young as one for $165.
Trends
Iraq carnage, Islamic State
Originally published online in November, the UN got hold of the actual hard copy in April, but was reluctant to confirm its authenticity. Now Zainab Bangura, the UN's Special Representative of the Secretary-General for Sexual Violence in Conflict, said the sex menu choices are real.
“The girls get peddled like barrels of petrol,” Bangura told Bloomberg. “One girl can be sold and bought by five or six different men. Sometimes these fighters sell the girls back to their families for thousands of dollars of ransom.”
All sanctioned by Mohammed.... But nothing to do with Islam of course
The Islamic State believes that Yazidis are devil worshipers and are therefore worse than ‘people of the book’ such as Christians and Jews, who can escape imprisonment by paying a monthly tax. Yazidis, however, are not able to pay their way out of jail.
The Yazids live in the north of Iraq and north east of Syria, who follow the ancient Yazidi religion.
The IS price list for slaves ranks the cost of a woman by age, so while a woman aged 40-50 would sell for just 50,000 dinars or $43, a girl aged 10-20 would be worth 150,000 dinars ($125) and a child under nine would sell for 200,000 dinars ($166).
Report says Isis are selling captured women as slaves with under 9s being the most expensive
www.rt.com/news/311612-un-isis-sex-slave/
After circulating for almost a year, the UN has finally confirmed the authenticity of the Islamic State Sex Price list being offered to their fighters and other men trying to purchase sex slaves as young as one for $165.
Trends
Iraq carnage, Islamic State
Originally published online in November, the UN got hold of the actual hard copy in April, but was reluctant to confirm its authenticity. Now Zainab Bangura, the UN's Special Representative of the Secretary-General for Sexual Violence in Conflict, said the sex menu choices are real.
“The girls get peddled like barrels of petrol,” Bangura told Bloomberg. “One girl can be sold and bought by five or six different men. Sometimes these fighters sell the girls back to their families for thousands of dollars of ransom.”
All sanctioned by Mohammed.... But nothing to do with Islam of course
The Islamic State believes that Yazidis are devil worshipers and are therefore worse than ‘people of the book’ such as Christians and Jews, who can escape imprisonment by paying a monthly tax. Yazidis, however, are not able to pay their way out of jail.
The Yazids live in the north of Iraq and north east of Syria, who follow the ancient Yazidi religion.
The IS price list for slaves ranks the cost of a woman by age, so while a woman aged 40-50 would sell for just 50,000 dinars or $43, a girl aged 10-20 would be worth 150,000 dinars ($125) and a child under nine would sell for 200,000 dinars ($166).
Edited by Pesty on Wednesday 5th August 11:13
XM5ER said:
ofcorsa said:
XM5ER said:
Has this been posted yet
John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
I thought when the videos first surfaced it was thought ISIS used a production company to stage manage these anyway?John McCain's laptop hacked and ISIS production video found on it
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-29/hackers-c...
The story started on 13th July and has suddenly turned up again, very weird.
ISIS being given weapons by the CIA? No surprise there either, I still think that ISIS is their ticket in to bomb Assad.
ISIS much more than just any old bunch of fundamentalists, trained and supplied by the USA, gulf States, Turkey and Jordan.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/isis-j...
Where did ISIS come from, well who would have guessed.
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/2012-defense-in...
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/isis-j...
Where did ISIS come from, well who would have guessed.
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/2012-defense-in...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 5th August 23:04
QuantumTokoloshi said:
ISIS much more than just any old bunch of fundamentalists, trained and supplied by the USA, gulf States, Turkey and Jordan.
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/isis-j...
Where did ISIS come from, well who would have guessed.
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/2012-defense-in...
Quantum,https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/isis-j...
Where did ISIS come from, well who would have guessed.
http://levantreport.com/2015/05/19/2012-defense-in...
Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Wednesday 5th August 23:04
Your thoughts please. Don't you think that the 'original' makeup of IS was the disbanded members of Sadaam's military/police machine who were relatively well trained and disciplined and that, thanks mainly to America were put out of a job?
In those early days, zero concrete evidence, only speculation that the Gulf States, Turkey & Jordan had anything to do with it or it's financing.
Phil
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