Trackday insurance claim
Discussion
This is an insurance claim I've been involved with on an informal basis.
The background is that there was an collision on a private trackday. Car A went off the circuit. No real damage. Driver of Car B believes Car A is about to rejoin, lifts, loses control and hits Car A. Nobody was hurt but both cars were damaged.
Driver of Car B then hears from his motor insurance company that they had received information of him being involved in an accident. After many phone calls they understood it was on a racetrack on a trackday.
After that they wanted to assess the damage on Car B for a pending claim. They didn't understand that driver of Car B wasn’t making a claim as he knew he couldn’t as it was a trackday. Driver refused to let them assess the car. Nothing to do with them, which they didn’t understand.
Speaking to insurance company a bit later they said they were still being chased for payment by the other insurance company.
Spent weeks trying to get insurance company to accept that road traffic laws do not apply to trackdays. They finally accepted that fact.
They then said that they would be cancelling the insurance policy as Car B driver had broken the terms and conditions of their policy. They claimed that a trackday would void the insurance policy. In the end they let the policy run its term.
Next, they tried to remove all the no claims from their record as they said a claim had been made. They also put on record that Car B driver had been in a accident, but its a no fault, no claim. This affected him taking out a new policy. Insurance company wouldn’t renew the insurance policy as they claimed Car B driver was too high a risk. This was after explaining that even if he did another trackday, he couldn’t claim anyway.
Letter then received from Insurance company saying they still wanted Car B driver to pay for the 3rd party damages (to Car A). Insurance company had not paid out to the other insurers.
Finally, insurance company replies to the 3rd party to say they would not be paying as the Road Traffic Act does not apply to this incident and any future correspondence to go direct to the driver or his solicitor.
A few months passed, then Car B driver received a letter from solicitors acting on behalf of Car A's insurance company claiming payment for damages (just under £10k). They didn’t specify what the damages were for and that if there was no reply within two weeks that they would commence court proceedings.
Solicitors for Car B driver considered that the letter was poorly written and didn't comply with the CPR pre-action protocol. Brother of Car B driver (trainee lawyer) writes a reply informing other side that we have no intention of paying anything. Nothing heard since this was done six months ago.
The background is that there was an collision on a private trackday. Car A went off the circuit. No real damage. Driver of Car B believes Car A is about to rejoin, lifts, loses control and hits Car A. Nobody was hurt but both cars were damaged.
Driver of Car B then hears from his motor insurance company that they had received information of him being involved in an accident. After many phone calls they understood it was on a racetrack on a trackday.
After that they wanted to assess the damage on Car B for a pending claim. They didn't understand that driver of Car B wasn’t making a claim as he knew he couldn’t as it was a trackday. Driver refused to let them assess the car. Nothing to do with them, which they didn’t understand.
Speaking to insurance company a bit later they said they were still being chased for payment by the other insurance company.
Spent weeks trying to get insurance company to accept that road traffic laws do not apply to trackdays. They finally accepted that fact.
They then said that they would be cancelling the insurance policy as Car B driver had broken the terms and conditions of their policy. They claimed that a trackday would void the insurance policy. In the end they let the policy run its term.
Next, they tried to remove all the no claims from their record as they said a claim had been made. They also put on record that Car B driver had been in a accident, but its a no fault, no claim. This affected him taking out a new policy. Insurance company wouldn’t renew the insurance policy as they claimed Car B driver was too high a risk. This was after explaining that even if he did another trackday, he couldn’t claim anyway.
Letter then received from Insurance company saying they still wanted Car B driver to pay for the 3rd party damages (to Car A). Insurance company had not paid out to the other insurers.
Finally, insurance company replies to the 3rd party to say they would not be paying as the Road Traffic Act does not apply to this incident and any future correspondence to go direct to the driver or his solicitor.
A few months passed, then Car B driver received a letter from solicitors acting on behalf of Car A's insurance company claiming payment for damages (just under £10k). They didn’t specify what the damages were for and that if there was no reply within two weeks that they would commence court proceedings.
Solicitors for Car B driver considered that the letter was poorly written and didn't comply with the CPR pre-action protocol. Brother of Car B driver (trainee lawyer) writes a reply informing other side that we have no intention of paying anything. Nothing heard since this was done six months ago.
In the USA On Track days/High performance driving education events, the driver of a car that leaves the track surface without the involvement of another vehicle requires permission from a Marshall to re enter the track.
There was undoubtedly a driver briefing.
Was this rule applicable to the event when/where the collision occurred?
Does not driver B have right of way...not as a rule, but common sense?
Driver A exhibited poor judgement by failing to exercise due caution on re entry to the track surface.
Driver A disregarded the safety of other individuals by re entering the track without due diligence.
m
There was undoubtedly a driver briefing.
Was this rule applicable to the event when/where the collision occurred?
Does not driver B have right of way...not as a rule, but common sense?
Driver A exhibited poor judgement by failing to exercise due caution on re entry to the track surface.
Driver A disregarded the safety of other individuals by re entering the track without due diligence.
m
weed said:
In the USA On Track days/High performance driving education events, the driver of a car that leaves the track surface without the involvement of another vehicle requires permission from a Marshall to re enter the track.
There was undoubtedly a driver briefing.
Was this rule applicable to the event when/where the collision occurred?
Does not driver B have right of way...not as a rule, but common sense?
Driver A exhibited poor judgement by failing to exercise due caution on re entry to the track surface.
Driver A disregarded the safety of other individuals by re entering the track without due diligence.
m
Car A didn't re-join - car B believed he was going to re-join.There was undoubtedly a driver briefing.
Was this rule applicable to the event when/where the collision occurred?
Does not driver B have right of way...not as a rule, but common sense?
Driver A exhibited poor judgement by failing to exercise due caution on re entry to the track surface.
Driver A disregarded the safety of other individuals by re entering the track without due diligence.
m
Anyway, it's not relevant as the incident was on a circuit, on a track-day. Neither driver has recourse through insurance for 3rd party claims (track-day cover or otherwise).
Seems driver of Car A was trying to to claim from B's insurers - how on earth this could happen I don't know; unless he was telling porkies about where it happened i.e. that it happened on the road.
weed said:
In the USA On Track days/High performance driving education events, the driver of a car that leaves the track surface without the involvement of another vehicle requires permission from a Marshall to re enter the track.
There was undoubtedly a driver briefing.
Was this rule applicable to the event when/where the collision occurred?
m
Not the case in the UK.There was undoubtedly a driver briefing.
Was this rule applicable to the event when/where the collision occurred?
m
weed said:
Driver A exhibited poor judgement by failing to exercise due caution on re entry to the track surface.
Driver A disregarded the safety of other individuals by re entering the track without due diligence.
m
We don't have any info about whether driver A regained the track. We do know that driver B lifted, went off and hit him.Driver A disregarded the safety of other individuals by re entering the track without due diligence.
m
Melindi
number2 said:
Seems driver of Car A was trying to to claim from B's insurers - how on earth this could happen I don't know; unless he was telling porkies about where it happened i.e. that it happened on the road.
He can't claim through insurance which doesn't cover those events, BUT the insurance company took advantage of the knowledge of the indcident to make it more difficult to insure a car due to - now I'm not sure how legal that is, although I'm afraid that the UK insurance law may not be of great help to the drivers. It was quite silly of the driver to involve their insurence company in this case, if anything, he should have pursued it as a civil case.
Unless I'm not aware of some special powers insurance companies have with regards to non-insurable events (again, I wouldn't be surprised)?
supertouring said:
Did either of these drivers have specific Track Cover?
Or are we talking std road policies here?
Driver A had a policy which allows him to do 3 track days p.a. The problems started when A's insurance company went after B's motor insurance company (no trackday cover). Or are we talking std road policies here?
Driver A is at fault for getting his insurance company to go afer driver B.
Driver A should make sure next time he sees driver B to run a mile.
If I was driver B I'd attend the next track day driver A does and have him off at the fastest part of the circuit - might think again before doing any more track days (or calling his insurer again).
Driver A should make sure next time he sees driver B to run a mile.
If I was driver B I'd attend the next track day driver A does and have him off at the fastest part of the circuit - might think again before doing any more track days (or calling his insurer again).
rallycross said:
Driver A is at fault for getting his insurance company to go afer driver B.
There is no evidence in the original description of the situation that this is the case.rallycross said:
If I was driver B I'd attend the next track day driver A does and have him off at the fastest part of the circuit - might think again before doing any more track days (or calling his insurer again).
I hope this is a (poor) joke.
rallycross said:
Driver A is at fault for getting his insurance company to go afer driver B.
If I was driver B I'd attend the next track day driver A does and have him off at the fastest part of the circuit - might think again before doing any more track days (or calling his insurer again).
We are making a huge leap here. Driver A is covered on his insurance for track days. He has claimed on his insurance as he has had an incident. What is he supposed to do? Oh I've paid for cover, but I won't claim but pay out of my own pocket?? The insurer is going after Driver B to recover it's costs, not driver A, I doubt Driver A was even consulted about it. Sorry i think you are maligning driver A unfairly if I've read the posts properly. If I was driver B I'd attend the next track day driver A does and have him off at the fastest part of the circuit - might think again before doing any more track days (or calling his insurer again).
I've done loads of track days and I've never heard such a ridiculous tale. Was this at a properly organised track day on a circuit/airfield ie not on the road.
Everyone signs the same liability disclaimer when they sign on at arrival. You go on track at your own risk - road insurance has nothing to do with on track incidents.
Driver A must have given his insurance company the details of driver B claiming it was his fault - how else could they have got in touch?
So why would he have done that knowing he has already signed the disclaimer which says you are here at your own risk? Either he is a complete idiot or a chancer hoping to get something he's not entitled to.
A someone said previously you'd need to take your number plates off to avoid things like this.
Everyone signs the same liability disclaimer when they sign on at arrival. You go on track at your own risk - road insurance has nothing to do with on track incidents.
Driver A must have given his insurance company the details of driver B claiming it was his fault - how else could they have got in touch?
So why would he have done that knowing he has already signed the disclaimer which says you are here at your own risk? Either he is a complete idiot or a chancer hoping to get something he's not entitled to.
A someone said previously you'd need to take your number plates off to avoid things like this.
rallycross said:
I've done loads of track days and I've never heard such a ridiculous tale. Was this at a properly organised track day on a circuit/airfield ie not on the road.
Everyone signs the same liability disclaimer when they sign on at arrival. You go on track at your own risk - road insurance has nothing to do with on track incidents.
Driver A must have given his insurance company the details of driver B claiming it was his fault - how else could they have got in touch?
So why would he have done that knowing he has already signed the disclaimer which says you are here at your own risk? Either he is a complete idiot or a chancer hoping to get something he's not entitled to.
A someone said previously you'd need to take your number plates off to avoid things like this.
Erm the way I read it:Everyone signs the same liability disclaimer when they sign on at arrival. You go on track at your own risk - road insurance has nothing to do with on track incidents.
Driver A must have given his insurance company the details of driver B claiming it was his fault - how else could they have got in touch?
So why would he have done that knowing he has already signed the disclaimer which says you are here at your own risk? Either he is a complete idiot or a chancer hoping to get something he's not entitled to.
A someone said previously you'd need to take your number plates off to avoid things like this.
Driver A has track cover.
Driver B hits driver A.
Driver A puts in claim for damage (as he has paid for his own cover) describing exactly what happened, inc reg number of driver B.
Insurance company A pays out for damage to car A.
Insurance company A chases insurance company B for costs who (after some confusion) rightly refuse to pay as driver B cover doesn't apply. An incident has been noted by company B.
The bad guys here are insurance company A for going after B for its costs (perhaps on the off chance B had cover).
An incident mark is wrongly put on driver B's record. No idea how this could be cleared!
The drivers are third parties almost! I think I shall remove my number plates on future track days....
rallycross said:
Everyone signs the same liability disclaimer when they sign on at arrival. You go on track at your own risk - road insurance has nothing to do with on track incidents.
Have you ready the disclaimer? They're not all the same and most are biased to absolving the TDO and circuit from responsibility, not necessarily other participants.Gassing Station | Track Days | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff