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Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th March 2011 quote quote all
I said I'd write a journal of me turning slim to back to being a fatty in the aim of gaining some decent muscle. So here it is warts and all! As a lot of you have requested I will blog it all here and be completely honest about the good and bad and we will see how I fair in the 3 month competition.

I'm happy to live and die by the sword and not be another internet warrior talking a good game and not playing a good game so here goes!

So what have I been doing after the 60 day challenge? I have spent the past 5 months eating everything, training as heavy as I can and doing no cardio work whatsoever! I've gone from 182lbs to a porky 209lbs in that time and whilst I've gained muscle I've also gained an awful lot of fat.

I haven't minded this too much as I knew it would happen and whilst we can debate if this is or isn't required to get to a reasonable size, I just wanted to try it at least one. My strength has gone through the roof and my arms and shoulders among other things are about 50% bigger which has been interesting in the clothing department.

As I'm not a huge fan of the right said fred look I've had to buy a whole new set of clothes.

It's been an interesting experiment and at times when I was naughty with food over christmas an enjoyable one too! I do hate the look though.

I've also spent some time in the middle experimenting with carb cycling/keto and various other training plans to see how they effect me. I've spent an awful lot of time studying diets and training too!

Some of my thoughts and inspiration comes from DC (one of the most respected and brilliant trainers out there). Check the 2nd post down.

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=9658

From this;


To this;

(Picture obscured to save you from my ugliness!)





Lee's simple plan!

So my plan isn't to re-invent the wheel or do anything complex but to use tried and tested principles for weight loss and maintaining muscle. Now before I start I should mention I'm no expert in any of these fields and theres 1000 and one ways to skin a cat.

Diet - Low carb, high protein, med/high fat

Breakfast
- Whole milk + Protein shake or 6-8 eggs

Snack - macadamia nuts

Lunch
- lean meat + greens

Snack - macadamia nuts or similar

Protein shake in whole milk after training

Dinner
- lean meat

Before bed
- Protein shake in whole milk + Monterey Jack Cheese slices x 2


Exercise; (Always done in a HIT style, see Mike Mentzer et all for more info)
Monday (Legs)
- Leg extensions 3 x 8
- Squat 3 x 8
- Leg press 3 x 10
- straight leg deadliest 3 x 8

Tuesday (Chest/Triceps)
- Bench press 3 x 8
- Incline flys 2 x 10-12
- Incline dumbbell press 3 x 8
- Tricep push downs 3 x 8
- Dips - maximum x 2

- HIIT (running 15-20 mins)

Wednesday
- Low intensity forced walking 45 mins (65% effort)

Thursday (Back/Biceps)
- Cable pull down 3 x 8
- Seated cable rows 2 x 10
- Dumbbell shrugs 3 x 8
- Bicep curls 3 x 8
- Hammer curls 3 x 8

- HIIT (running 15-20 mins)

Friday (ancillaries)
- Lateral raises 3 x 8
- Dumbbell press 3 x 8
- Weighted calf raises 2 x 20
- Seated calf raises 2 x 15
- Hanging crunches 3 x 8
- Decline crunches 3 x 10

Saturday
- Low intensity forced walking 45 mins (65% effort)

Sunday
- Rest


Supplements
- MyProtein Whey Isolate (chosen for low carbs)
- Multi-vitamin



Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Sunday 27th March 23:03

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Sunday 27th March 2011 quote quote all
Oh and the competition starts on April the 1st (no it's not a joke!)

See here;
http://fitforum.co.uk/forum.php

DownUnder.

681 posts

63 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Good stuff, it'd be interesting to see an updated training blog!

Goold luck with the compo!

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
DownUnder. said:
Good stuff, it'd be interesting to see an updated training blog!

Goold luck with the compo!
Thanks DownUnder!

I thought I'd put it all out here to prove if my new method of training works. I have had in excess of 300 requests from PH folk after the last one so I thought I'd do this out in the open so people could see if it really does work or not.


Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Also unless it's something sensitive can people please post here and not PM/Email me? If you'd rather people didn't know then feel free to message me in the other way.

Why low carb was one of the questions asked by a few folk last night. I've found a few videos from Dave Palumbo to explain why although there are a huge number of programs based around the low carb/zero carb approach.

I don't go as low as zero (ketosis) gives me terribly bad breath and also makes my skin smell strangely which isn't nice....

http://dai.ly/cIIWaP

http://dai.ly/bfSbBO

Edited by Ordinary_Chap on Monday 28th March 21:02

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RemainAllHoof

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Isn't it bad for your long-term health? Something about your central nervous system not being able to cope even if you feel fine after you've stopped.

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
RemainAllHoof said:
Isn't it bad for your long-term health? Something about your central nervous system not being able to cope even if you feel fine after you've stopped.
That's a new one on me! I've not heard that before, got any links?

What I'm doing isn't ketosis but ketosis is used by the medical profession to treat various problems from weight problems through to epilepsy.

I'm simply avoiding too many carbs due to all of the negative effects they have on the body and fat storage.

RemainAllHoof

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Ordinary_Chap said:
That's a new one on me! I've not heard that before, got any links?
One or two.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=low+carb+diet+dan...

As for the medical community advising it, that's on people who have serious medical conditions already so they may well have assessed the risk before advising it. I would speak to a professional about the use of such techniques but cutting out an essential food group can't be a good thing.

Edited by RemainAllHoof on Monday 28th March 08:51

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
RemainAllHoof said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
That's a new one on me! I've not heard that before, got any links?
One or two.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=low+carb+diet+dan...

As for the medical community advising it, that's on people who have serious medical conditions already so they may well have assessed the risk before advising it. I would speak to a professional about the use of such techniques but cutting out an essential food group can't be a good thing.

Edited by RemainAllHoof on Monday 28th March 08:51
Really there is no danger in limiting the intake of carbs. I'd agree going to ketosis is something people need to think about but I'm not stopping carbs just cutting down on my intake.

article said:


Since posting the piece on ketone bodies and their causing breathalyzer problems I’ve had enough comments and emails to make me realize that there are probably many people unsure of what ketones really are, where they come from and why. Let’s take a look at the goals and priorities of our metabolic system to see what happens. Fear not, I’m going to try to keep the biochemistry to a minimum.

The primary goal of our metabolic system is to provide fuels in the amounts needed at the times needed to keep us alive and functioning. As long as we’ve got plenty of food, the metabolic systems busies itself with allocating it to the right places and storing what’s left over. In a society such as ours, there is usually too much food so the metabolic system has to deal with it in amounts and configurations that it wasn’t really designed to handle, leading to all kinds of problems. But that’s a story for another day.

If you read any medical school biochemistry textbook, you’ll find a section devoted to what happens metabolically during starvation. If you read these sections with a knowing eye, you’ll realize that everything discussed as happening during starvation happens during carbohydrate restriction as well. There have been a few papers published recently showing the same thing: the metabolism of carb restriction = the metabolism of starvation. I would maintain, however, based on my study of the Paleolithic diet, that starvation and carb restriction are simply the polar ends of a continuum, and that carb restriction was the norm for most of our existence as upright walking beings on this planet, making the metabolism of what biochemistry textbook authors call starvation the ‘normal’ metabolism.

So, bearing in mind that carb restriction and starvation are opposite ends of the same stick and that what applies to one applies to the other, let’s look at how it all works. I’ll explain it from a starvation perspective, but all the mechanisms work the same for a carb-restricted diet.

During starvation the primary goal of the metabolic system is to provide enough glucose to the brain and other tissues (the red blood cells, certain kidney cells, and others) that absolutely require glucose to function. Which makes sense if you think about it. You’re a Paleolithic man or woman, you’re starving, you’ve got to find food, you need a brain, red blood cells, etc. to do it. You’ve got to be alert, quick on your feet, and not focused on how hungry you are.

If you’re not eating or if you’re on a low-carbohydrate diet, where does this glucose come from?

If you’re starving, glucose comes mainly from one place, and that is from the body’s protein reservoir: muscle. A little can come from stored fat, but not from the fatty acids themselves. Although glucose can be converted to fat, the reaction can’t go the other way. Fat is stored as a triglyceride, which is three fatty acids hooked on to a glycerol molecule. The glycerol molecule is a three-carbon structure that, when freed from the attached fatty acids, can combine with another glycerol molecule to make glucose. Thus a starving person can get a little glucose from the fat that is released from the fat cells, but not nearly enough. The lion’s share has to come from muscle that breaks down into amino acids, several of which can be converted by the liver into glucose. (There are a few other minor sources of glucose conversion: the Cori cycle, for example, but these are not major sources, so we’ll leave them for another, more technical, discussion.)

But the breakdown of muscle creates another problem, namely, that (in Paleolithic times and before) survival was dependent upon our being able to hunt down other animals and/or forage for plant foods. It makes it tough to do this if a lot of muscle is being converted into glucose and your muscle mass is dwindling.

The metabolic system is then presented with two problems: 1) getting glucose for the glucose-dependent tissues; and 2) maintaining as much muscle mass as possible to allow hunting and foraging to continue.

Early on, the metabolic system doesn’t know that the starvation is going to go on for a day or for a week or two weeks. At first it plunders the muscle to get its sugar. And remember from a past post that a normal blood sugar represents only about a teaspoon of sugar dissolved in the entire blood volume, so keeping the blood sugar normal for a day or so doesn’t require a whole lot of muscular sacrifice. If we figure that an average person requires about 200 grams of sugar per day to meet all the needs of the glucose-dependent tissues, we’re looking at maybe a third of a pound of muscle per day, which isn’t all that big a deal over the first day. But we wouldn’t want it to continue at that rate. If we could reduce that amount and allow our muscle mass to last as long as possible, it would be a big help.

The metabolic system could solve its problem by a coming up with a way to reduce the glucose-dependent tissues’ need for glucose so that the protein could be spared as long as possible.

Ketones to the rescue.

The liver requires energy to convert the protein to glucose. The energy comes from fat. As the liver breaks down the fat to release its energy to power gluconeogenesis, the conversion of protein to sugar, it produces ketones as a byproduct. And what a byproduct they are. Ketones are basically water soluble (meaning they dissolve in blood) fats that are a source of energy for many tissues including the muscles, brain and heart. In fact, ketones act as a stand in for sugar in the brain. Although ketones can’t totally replace all the sugar required by the brain, they can replace a pretty good chunk of it. By reducing the body’s need for sugar, less protein is required, allowing the muscle mass (the protein reservoir) to last a lot longer before it is depleted. And ketones are the preferred fuel for the heart, making that organ operate at about 28 percent greater efficiency.

Fat is the perfect fuel. Part of it provides energy to the liver so that the liver can convert protein to glucose. The unusable part of the fat then converts to ketones, which reduce the need for glucose and spare the muscle in the process.

If, instead of starving, you’re following a low-carb diet, it gets even better. The protein you eat is converted to glucose instead of the protein in your muscles. If you keep the carbs low enough so that the liver still has to make some sugar, then you will be in fat-burning mode while maintaining your muscle mass, the best of all worlds. How low is low enough? Well, when the ketosis process is humming along nicely and the brain and other tissues have converted to ketones for fuel, the requirement for glucose drops to about 120-130 gm per day. If you keep your carbs below that at, say, 60 grams per day, you’re liver will have to produce at least 60-70 grams of glucose to make up the deficit, so you will generate ketones that entire time.

So, on a low-carb diet you can feast and starve all at the same time. Is it any wonder it’s so effective for weight loss?
From here; http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ket...

I am open to suggestions, tips and ideas so please keep them coming but I don't personally think there is any risk in limiting a food type.

Bolognese

1,496 posts

110 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Looking forward to the updates mate

MrWhale

173 posts

63 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Would be intrested on what sort of diet you was on to put that much mass on.

I have been trying to bulk since xmas, have a 5x5 program and have had good gains strength wise but have only put on just over half a stone, have not gained much fat either.

Must eat more I guess but am already eating a fair bit.

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
MrWhale said:
Would be intrested on what sort of diet you was on to put that much mass on.

I have been trying to bulk since xmas, have a 5x5 program and have had good gains strength wise but have only put on just over half a stone, have not gained much fat either.

Must eat more I guess but am already eating a fair bit.
I have been around 3500-5000 calories a day. This is definitely on the extreme side of eating and I am massively stronger than when I started and a bit more musclely too!

I know I quoted Dante before or DC as folks call him but see the first post section C. I decided to experiment with his ideas I knew I would get horrifically fat but I've gained a lot doing what he advocates. If you look in the same forum from the consistent results he produces you'll see he knows his stuff!

http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=9658

So my take on all of this is, you can gain slowly and steadily keeping your diet in check (like adding 500 cals above maintenance etc) or you can go for it, drop any cardio work, lift as heavy as you possibly can manage and eat a lot of good quality foods. I think from the sound of it you're in the slow and steady category and I went down the other route. I went from 180lbs to 209lbs in 5 months.

Both ways work, you've just got to choose which one is for you but reading DC's work and amazing results are a must imho.



RemainAllHoof

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
My issue is long-term health rather than any temporary ill effects in the short term (tiredness, bad breath etc). You may get hit by a bus tomorrow but I doubt it.

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
RemainAllHoof said:
My issue is long-term health rather than any temporary ill effects in the short term (tiredness, bad breath etc). You may get hit by a bus tomorrow but I doubt it.
Humans are not designed for the processed carbohydrates that most of our diets are made up of. In fact you'll do damage with a long term heavy carbohydrate intake.

If you can provide me with medical evidence that states otherwise I will be more than happy to take that onboard to support your view.

RemainAllHoof

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Ordinary_Chap said:
In fact you'll do damage with a long term heavy carbohydrate intake.

If you can provide me with medical evidence that states otherwise I will be more than happy to take that onboard to support your view.
1) Who is talking about heavy carb intakes? And what kind of damage are you talking about? Obesity? Then don't eat so much and move more.

2) www.google.co.uk. Found stuff in under a minute.

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
RemainAllHoof said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
In fact you'll do damage with a long term heavy carbohydrate intake.

If you can provide me with medical evidence that states otherwise I will be more than happy to take that onboard to support your view.
1) Who is talking about heavy carb intakes? And what kind of damage are you talking about? Obesity? Then don't eat so much and move more.

2) www.google.co.uk. Found stuff in under a minute.
I'm happy that restricting processed carbs will not affect me in any way in either the short or long term. Actually it's recommended by the British Medical Council, see Mediterranean diet for more information which is similar to my diet.

British Medical Journal said:
According to a 2008 study published in the British Medical Journal, the traditional Mediterranean diet provides substantial protection against type 2 diabetes.The study involved over 13 000 graduates from the University of Navarra in Spain with no history of diabetes, who were recruited between December 1999 and November 2007, and whose dietary habits and health were subsequently tracked. Participants initially completed a 136-item food frequency questionnaire designed to measure the entire diet. The questionnaire also included questions on the use of fats and oils, cooking methods and dietary supplements. Every two years participants were sent follow-up questionnaires on diet, lifestyle, risk factors, and medical conditions. New cases of diabetes were confirmed through medical reports. During the follow-up period (median 4.4 years) the researchers from the University of Navarra found that participants who stuck closely to the diet had a lower risk of diabetes. A high adherence to the diet was associated with an 83% relative reduction in the risk of developing diabetes.[36]

A 2008 study published in The New England Journal of Medicine examined the effects of three diets: low-carb, low-fat, and Mediterranean. The study involved 322 participants and lasted for 2 years. The low-carb and Mediterranean diet resulted in the greatest weight loss, 12 lbs and 10 lbs, respectively. The low-fat diet resulted in a loss of 7 lbs. One caveat of the study is that 86% of the study participants were men. The low-carb and Mediterranean diets produced similar amounts of weight loss in the overall study results and in the men. In the remaining participants who were women, the Mediterranean diet produced 3.8 kg (8.4 lbs) more weight loss on average than the low-carb diet.[37]

A meta-analysis published in the British Medical Journal in 2008 showed that following strictly the Mediterranean diet reduced the risk of dying from cancer and cardiovascular disease as well as the risk of developing Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease. The results report 9%, 9%, and 6% reduction in overall, cardiovascular, and cancer mortality respectively. Additionally a 13% reduction in incidence of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases is to be expected provided strict adherence to the diet is observed.As well, a 2007 study found that adherence to the Mediterranean diet (MeDi) may affect not only risk for Alzheimer disease (AD) but also subsequent disease course: Higher adherence to the MeDi is associated with lower mortality in AD. The gradual reduction in mortality risk for higher MeDi adherence tertiles suggests a possible dose-response effect.
I respect your opinion on what you think is good and bad but lets just agree to disagree.

We could try to argue this either way but it would be a pointless waste of both of our time and I know a lot of folk want to see what I'm doing so lets gets this thread back on track.

RemainAllHoof

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Wait a sec. First, you're saying low carb, now you're saying low processed carbs/Mediterranean diet. There's a big difference!

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
RemainAllHoof said:
Wait a sec. First, you're saying low carb, now you're saying low processed carbs/Mediterranean diet. There's a big difference!
Please, just stop it.

RemainAllHoof

56,154 posts

168 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
Ordinary_Chap said:
Please, just stop it.
I'm not arguing if you're saying you are eating unprocessed carbs or following something like the Mediterranean diet. smile

Ordinary_Chap

Original Poster:

7,520 posts

129 months

[news] 
Monday 28th March 2011 quote quote all
RemainAllHoof said:
Ordinary_Chap said:
Please, just stop it.
I'm not arguing if you're saying you are eating unprocessed carbs or following something like the Mediterranean diet. smile
This is just getting daft now.

Do you class whole milk and cheese as unprocessed carbs? You don't even know what you're trying to argue.
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